Cal3thousand's Norco VPS Six - HT3525

cal3thousand

10 MW
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Messages
3,608
Location
California
My bike is currently in pieces for a major upgrade, so I thought I would finally take the time to write something about it and share it.

Current Photo:

Norco%20at%20CVS.jpg


This is my first attempt at a full suspension bike. I've only owned rigid bikes in my lifetime since real mountain bike riding was never my thing. I've lived in the city most of my life and bikes were generally seen as transportation and not so much as sport.

My previous e-bikes were slow machines for commuting. They were good at the beginning when it didn't take much to get the ebike grin going. But eventually, I got tired of riding slowly and getting passed by cars all the time. I also wanted my throttle to act like more than just an on/off switch as John in CR suggests. Watching all of the videos posted from members with fast DH bikes got me wanting one.

I started lurking Craigslist in my surrounding areas looking for a cheap Downhill donor for my project. In a matter of no time, I found a Norco VPS Six that an avid downhill biker was getting rid of for space. For $250 and a 50 mile drive, I got a nearly full bike frame with suspension bits included. It was only missing chain, derailleur, brakes, pedals and handlebars. Of course it was dirty and a little scratched up, but that's perfect for an ebike. It's not as high tech as some other frames nor does it have a large triangle, but the price was right for a frame with fork, shock and crank/BB. That was August of 2012 that I picked up the frame, to give you some reference as to how long I have been taking.

I also did a lot of reading about what motor that I wanted to try. I kept hearing about volting up and gearing down, using a slow wind motor. It was around that time that I started buying a Method's Protection Kit for my wife's bike and planned to use one on my bike as well. I must have been in the right place at the right time because Uncle Methy also sold me 2 motors for $100 each, a front 9C 2810 and a rear Crystalyte HT3525. SCORE! Having burnt out my geared hubbie during this time, I used the front motor on another bike that I had lying around and relaced the HT3525 into a Alex Supra D rim that was waiting.


Wheel Building

I built my first wheel (700c) for my commuter bike since my old one was very poor (ie cheap) and I wanted to convert to disc brakes. After making a solid wheel and gaining confidence, I built wheels for my wife's bike and then for this bike. The wheels actually came together a long time before the rest of the bike since I was already lacing wheels for my wife's build. For front wheels, I build with a 3 cross pattern using 15G/14G double butted spokes. I used a wheel calculator on the web EDD with dimensions that I found online for the hub and rims that I chose (Alex Supra D). The spokes were custom cut Sapim butted spokes from DansComp. BTW, these guys are very helpful and the spokes are the right price at 50 cents each. I ordered an even 40, to have spares, for each wheel. When you have to dish the wheel (most wheels should have some dishing due to the hub spacing), you will order spokes that are longer on one side of the wheel, usually the disc side for fronts and the drive side for rears. So for a full bike, you might need to order 4 different spokes lengths. 80 spokes comes out to $50 or so after shipping and taxes. It takes less than a week to get to your door. and I have had them arrive in 3 days before. I'm not going into a full description on how I build my wheels, but I should include some things I found. Since I was making numerous wheels and planned to make more, I bought the tools to make the job easier. I purchased a Park Tool repair stand that also doubles as truing stand (with an extra add-on) as well as a spoke tension gauge. Although the tension gauge is not absolutely necessary, it makes the process much easier by giving you consistency and removing the guess-work (tensions will change throughout the wheel as you work around it so constant checking is good). Also make sure to lube the nipples! (hehe).

For the hub motor, I used Sapim straight spokes laced in a 1 cross pattern. I also purchased some tiny washers online to help the spoke heads sit in the hub flange holes properly since they were drilled for larger spokes (12G I presume). Hockey tape (my version of cheap rim tape), Kenda downhill tubes, DMR Moto R/T tires in 26" and Mr Tuffy's tire liners finished off the wheels. They sat in this condition for months (almost a year) while the rest of the bike was being finished in the bits and pieces of time that I could scrape together.

Battery

Between the time that I picked up the frame and now, I put in small bits of work in between working on other, more pressing items. I did LOTS of reading on how bike suspensions work and how to maintain the parts (It's amazing the amount of maintenance hours that manufacturers require). I also did plenty of reading on ES about battery mountings and weight distribution.

Some where in there, I decided that I was going to make my own battery box and fill it with LiPos. I knew that I wouldn't be able to cram anything into the triangle (if you can even call it that on this bike), so I decided to make a box underneath the frame and bottom bracket. There are a few examples of good battery mounts made underneath the bike on ES.

Battery%20Skeleton%20-%20scrapped.jpg


I plan to bulk charge my pack using a BMSBattery EMC-1000 conservatively set to 100V and 6A. It's my firm belief that these chargers can last if handled with care and run at conservative power levels (ie below 800W). I have yet to have one of these chargers fail on me since I buy 2 at each voltage that I will need and leave one at work. It's much easier on shipping to buy 2 at the same time as well. I also purchased an iCharger 4010Duo from IceCube57 with some PSUs included. I know that this setup is overkill, but it does everything so nicely. I got a lot of use out of the RC charger when I received and cycled my packs. I'm fairly certain that it will not be used all that often as my pack should stay closely balanced. My experience is that conservative charging and discharging will keep these cells happy and in sync with each other. The balance taps will be easily accessible for periodic checking.

For a couple months, I focused on making the box. I even did some reading on carbon fiber, ABS and fiberglass in preparation. I even got so far as to make a skeleton for the box to mount to my bike using ABS and Aluminum angle stock. But at some point, I began stalling out on the plan and figuring out a good way to mount it to the bike cleanly. I also had reservations about how the cells would be supported and the fact that the battery would not be removable.

So I began working on other issues with the bike while stewing on the direction of my battery. One part of the bike that took all too long to finish were the torque plates.



Torque Plates

I had successfully made torque plates for my wife's build using 5/16" (8mm) thick, hot-rolled high carbon steel. I bought a large 1 foot square for $15 at the local metal supplier, Bobco Metals. Without any real tools at my disposal, the plates were cut with a grinder for the rough shape and then dremeled to final shape. Unless you have the patience, time, cheapness and stubborness that I do, you will want to buy some torque arms instead. It's much less work that way. And these particular plates are overbuilt in case I decide to go insane or use regen or both. For most builds, I would go with a set of torque arms from migueralliart (EVWorkslab.com) or Teslanv. In fact, that's the route I will be going when I redo the commuter bike. But I was also making the torque plates to function as a bike trailer coupler so the custom work was necessary. A 1" diameter tube was then welded orthogonally to the plate face. This will replace the coupler that was included with the trailer. The old OE coupler attached to the bike using the axle and nut making tire changes difficult and cramping the axle nut space.

[Saved: I will insert a photo of the torque plate and integrated trailer hitch soon]

I tapped a pair of M5 threads into each plate to affix them to the dropouts. A little filing on the dropouts was necessary, but I kept it to a minimum. Any compromise in integrity in that section will be overcome by the torque plates anyhow. For good measure, I smeared a layer of Scotchweld DP420 between the plates and the dropouts. For my wife's build, I mounted them on the outboard surfaces of the dropout. But for my bike, the dropout spacing was 150mm and I am running an HT3525 that has 135mm axle spacing. This was the reasoning for my choice of 8mm plate. The 15mm difference that I need to make up for was close enough to 2 plates. So I spread the dropouts 1mm (actually 2mm with the spacer needed for the 8 speed cluster) and the fit is PERFECT. I wouldn't want to stretch aluminum dropouts any more than that, but 2mm over 150mm is not enough to worry about and easily done. There's enough tolerance and play that 2mm was taken up without issue.


Gearing

With a bike of this planned speed, pedaling cadence and gearing is always an issue to consider. The donor bike came with 2 tiny chainrings on the front and an 8 speed cluster out back. Since I am not planning to pedal this bike without the motor, (It cogs like hell compared to the geared hubbies I'm accustomed) I removed the front rings and replaced them with a single 44T, eliminating the need for a 3 speed derailleur. My calculations for this gearing using this site: http://www.machars.net/bikecalc.htm gives me 26mph at a comfortable 70rpm cadence and will allow me to pedal up to 33mph at a 90rpm cadence. After that speed, I'm not sure I want to put in more pedal input. If things change for me over time, I might go with a larger chainring since the frame will allow for about 2-4 more teeth on the front. No ISCG mounts on this frame means no Rohloff options in the future.

(Changes occurred in gearing during upgrade to V1.5 - below)

Direction Change: Battery Mounting

After stalling out for so long on the battery mounting, I decided that I needed a way to move forward. I also put more thought into my bike parking situation and concluded that a removable battery was necessary. Oatnet's Pelican battery mounting came to mind as a perfect solution since the box would like nice and clean while being mostly waterproof (even after the mods). I also might get less questions about my battery pack if it is in a case that people readily recognize as a storage container. I also saw that Kiwi had made the battery forklift to make it removable so I headed in that direction with my mount. I don't have any access to real tools or machines like a CNC or mill or lathe, so everything had to be planned around tubes, plates and plastic sheets. I also wanted to be sure that the mounting will be solid and quick to remove.

I bought a Pelican Storm i2075 after seeing someone on this site (I can't remember at the moment) post the dimensions. It will fit twelve (12) 6S LiPo packs with some careful consideration, so my 24S 2P setup has plenty of room for padding, wiring, a fuse, and Method's Protection kit. All the holes will be located on the bottom side with a rubber grommet and hot glue to keep water out. Drip loops will be used to keep the water from running along wires. I might even use NeverWet on the box and connectors to be sure water does not enter.

To mount the box to the bike, I decide to do like others have and switch to a dual crown fork. The bike came with a Marzocchi Bomber z1 Freeride 2 fork which a single crown meant for XC and freeriding, although the frame is considered a DH. And while the 130mm travel was sufficient, I upgraded to a Rockshox Boxxer Team with 32mm stanchions and 200mm of travel. Those 32mm stanchions are perfect for 1.25" accessory clamps from Wehrs Machine (another point taken from Oatnet). With 4 clamps giving a good solid square for mounting the box. I put some Neodymium magnets on the back the Pelican box to help with holding power and alignment when installing the box. That way, the box will slide onto the mounts rails and 'click' into the magnet cutouts. That will hold the pack in place so I can strap it down without having to hold the 19 lb. box in one hand. The box has a very comfortable handle built into it was created to protect things from impact and weather, making it perfect as a battery box.

Forks

I bought the forks from Pinkbike (I think the girl I bought them from is a semi-pro Downhill biker) for about $265 used. It was a pretty good deal since I sold my Bomber forks for about $110 it came out to a $150 difference to upgrade. I also purchased a seal kit and oil for the dampers. I will ride out the rest of the year and then do a maintenance in December/January (that didn't happen and it is now July, but after V1.5, I will go back up update/maintain the dampers in V1.6. I also bought a seal kit for the Fox DHX 3.0 that came as standard on the frame. In the interim, I have found a FOX DHX 4.0 with very similar size specs (will keep the geometry the same), but some additional controls. This will be rebuilt, then swapped into place with a Fox 600x2.35 spring when ready.

One thing to note about these forks is that the Maxle DH (20mm thru axle) is no longer sold in the US in the 32mm flavor. They will gladly sell you a whole new set of lowers for $299 with the axle included. I ruined the lever/wedge section of the maxle (which isn't sold separately in the US either) when trying to torque the maxle the 8 required 'clicks'. These forks are all scratched up at the lowers, but I still can't see myself forking over the same amount I paid for the forks just to get a new lower set and maxle. So after much searching, I found the full Maxles and lever/wedge kits for sale in the UK. 36 GBP later and I have a working piece on the way. These forks are starting to become the most expensive thing on the bike, but they make it look so damn sexy. The bike really looks the part now and the scratched forks just give it some character.

When purchasing the forks, I did something foolish and 'eyeballed' the steerer length without explicitly asking. Fortunately for me, the steerer was just long enough for my frame that a small section stuck out the top of the triple clamp crown. But it was not long enough to put my original stem on there so I had to purchase a direct mount stem to attach to the fork (it was the holes in the top crown for this)

[Insert picture of fork mount crown]

Fenders

This bike will likely take it's maiden voyage in November of 2013 with much of the riding done in December. Even though I live in Southern California, we get occasional rain and crap on the ground. So I need a good set of fenders that will keep me dry and my bike clean (I will commuting to work on this beast). After much shopping around and even buying another fender set, I settled on the Topeak Defender XC-1. The front fender is a two piece affair that mounts on the forks keeping the fender close to the tire. This allows it to do it's job much better than a fender located 200mm upwards at the bottom of the steerer. The rear is a post mount that has 2 joints for better alignment. I'm not sure if the rear fender will interfere with my rear travel with the post mount racked controller as well. I might have to make changes after the test rides. I have had quite a few people ask about what fenders they were after sharing some photos.

[Insert photos for Fenders]


Brakes

At this point, the brakes on the bike were from a set that was supposed to go on my wife's bike. But since these Bengal Helix 5 require DOT 4 fluid, we could not use it with the Magura hydraulic pressure cut-off switch. Her bike has cruise control, so I felt it was absolutely necessary that the e-brakes worked to cut throttle. On my bike, I will not have PAS nor cruise control, so I doubt the need for a pressure switch (for now). In order to get everything to line up nicely, I had to use 4mm of disc spacers in the front and rear. This allowed for clearance from the hub motor as well as getting the closer to the caliper. If these brakes don't perform to my liking at 40mph+, I will likely swap them out for a set of Shimano Zee's. They are the little brother to the Saints and have all the best parts while being much cheaper; only the rotor is made of different stuff (I found it for $129 each at JensonUSA.com [this is my favorite bike parts shop in the US]). I will most likely be buying 4 sets and installing on our 2 main bikes since she was also wanting more stopping power. [Update: I ended up chucking the front caliper for a Shimano Zee with the upgraded 203mm Ice Tech rotors; They stop REALLY well and look amazing]. I will be installing some 'window' alarm switches (reed) to be used as ebrake switches. I presume they will work perfectly since they are already 'potted' and wired and contain a Normally open reed switch that will close the circuit when the lever is pulled (window is opened)

Insert photo of Zee brakes and window reed switch.

Accessories:


Mirrycle - This is one accessory that is a must have on all my bikes now. I cannot stand the feeling of not knowing what is behind me, especially here in LA, where a third of the jokers here aren't even licensed. I don't have a bad thing I can say about the mirror except that occasional tightening maybe be necesary. (In V1.5 below, I have upgraded to motorcycle mirrors)

Mirrycle Bell - Based on my pleasing experience with the mirror, I decided to give the bell a shot. I haven't used it in a real world situation yet, but the bell is amazingly loud and clear. It will be a nice friendly alternative to the car horn that I plan to install with it. :twisted:

12V horn - Another urban warfare necessity is the loud horn. I have a 12V DC-DC converter that will be powering this horn from my main pack. It should make me sound like a small car or a motorcycle. The bell will be used for pedestrians and bikers and the horn will be used for a-holes of any conveyance.

Headlights - Fall in California means that it gets dark here around commute times, making it even more treacherous to travel in traffic. I have been driving around extra carefully with my tinted windows cracked, lately because most bicyclist are NOT ready for the change in lighting conditions yet and won't be for another 2 months. Headlights are not only necessary for the vision of the rider, but for the visibility of the rider as well. Some people have their tint darkened to (varying) illegal levels and can barely see through them (myself included :roll:). If you don't have enough visibility, they WILL not see you and they WILL kill you. For this reason, I also plan on having bright LED taillights. For the headlights, I will use CREE leds with projectors that are modified to have a horizontal cutoff. This will allow me to run ridiculously bright lights without blinding oncoming traffic or pedestrians. I might even consider one of those spoke mounted lights so my wheel looks like Tron. Self preservation is near the top of the list.


CA V3

CA Mount - I had an issue with a thief that got curious with my wife's Cycle Analyst, so decided to buy the metal steerer mounts for the CAs. It gets in the way of the stem on this particular fork, but I just turned it around and put the CA on the opposite side, closer to me. The Pelican box will sit up higher than the CA, hopefully shielding it from damage should I wipeout somehow. Right now, it is a CAv2.3 until I get around to V1.6

Geogram One

On my wife's bike as well as mine, I will be using a GeoGram One ($120 as of this writing) that I will pair with Telna US SIM cards. They run $19 per year and give me more than enough free texts per month to use with this device. [I will update this area with some more information on the device and usage)
 
[This section is to describe the V1.2 upgrade process]

V1.2 Included the decision to install a new battery box method as well as upgrades to the motor.

Motor upgrades included a cooling holes of various sizes on both side covers. With the various sizes, the holes will create pressure differences (all theory right now based on Bernoulli's principle) that will move air across the windings at speed. I used Milwaukee brand hole saw bits from the local Home Depot paired with my DeWALT cordless 18V drill. A press would have given better results more easily, but I am happy with the results. To protect the windings from dust, water and other debris, I coated the internals with Spray-On red insulating varnish that I purchased from Grainger for less than $10.

While the motor was open, I took the opportunity to upgrade the phase wires using custom wires. Using Luke's method, I removed the jacketing from some 10 AWG Turnigy high strand cable, removed a small section to reduce size, and then covered with 1 layer of heat shink (I have found that this is insufficient to stand up to the Crystalyte cable cutter crap dust seal, so in V1.5, I added another layer and will cover with a hard plastic 'tube' or metal coil where it exists the axle)


The battery mounting upgrade came about at a fortunate time. I had just began to research other ways to mount the battery pack to the frame as the fork mount was too unstable at low speeds for my personal tastes. At high speeds, the box was perfectly stable and even helped attenuate the steering. While cruising the forums, I happened to notice a Group Buy for a frame mounted bag that I have never seen before. Impressed by the styling and features, I decided to buy one not fully knowing how it would fit to my frame. It took a few weeks for the whole thing to transpire and land one of those sweet bags in my hands. I have to say that I have been absolutely and completely satisfied by the bag. It completes the look of the bike (as the Dude would say: "It really tied the room together"). I have gotten numerous compliments about the bag and bike combo, but the best part is not the looks and admiration, but how well the bag functions. It hangs on the frame like it was made for it and gives it a motorcycle look. It also removes from the frame and installs securely in 15 seconds or less.

[more pics to be inserted here]
 
[This section is for V1.5 information]

The V1.5 upgrade (as I like to call it), is a semi major upgrade to the whole bike.

Norco%20VPS%20Six%20-%20V1.5%20progress.jpg


To the motor, I have installed a new axle from Tench [insert link to Tench's sale thread] and 3 thermistors (10k; 3900 Beta): One on the leftside windings, one on the right, and another on the stamped stator core. This will allow me to monitor temps using the CA V3 and also have a good idea of the efficacy of the cooling mods done in V1.2. I will run various tests with different holes covered/uncovered and plot the various internal motor temps, hopefully giving a better idea of how cooling affects the various parts of the motor internally. The new axle also has a deeper and wider cable slot allowing me to run more protective sleeving on the 11 AWG wires I will be installing.

[Insert photo of new axle]

To the human drivetrain, I have elected to install a FSA Metropolis Patterson Transmission. This is a crank with a single Chainring and an internal planetary gearset that allows user on-the-fly choce of 1:1 OR 1:1.6 pedal-to-drive ratio. With the proper adapter, a 130BCD 5-bolt 39T chainring fits on perfectly. This gives the front chainring tooth counts of 39T (1:1) and 62.4T (1:1.6). I originally ordered a 45T being overly optimistic about the chainstay clearance and eventually settled on the 39T that fits perfectly. This transmission does not require ISCG mounts like some other transmission systems, instead relying on a 'torque-fix' feature that 'clocks' the transmission against the bottom chainstay. Since this full suspension frame does not have the same chainstay construction as hardtails, I had to get creative and move the torque-fix to another set of holes (originally intended for the chainguard). I hope that it will do the job of both fixing the transmission's orientation and holding the chain from falling in should it pop off. If that fails, I will have to have a custom piece made. Which could be easy or difficult depending on how far I will want to go with it.

[Insert photo of BB portion of FSA showing custom mount choice)

Also included in this round of upgrades is a fix to the issue of buying a second-hand frame. Apparently the PO, had Mickey Mouse'd the headset, pairing a top cup with a non-matching bottom cup. This setup, didn't allow for the best fit of the forks and I noticed some slop when braking really hard. After doing some homework, I decided it will be much easier to replace the headset completely with a more contemporary unit. I used the Cane Creek headset finder tool and narrowed it down to an EC-40 headset. To remove the headset, I will buy a 1" diameter copper pipe from the hardware store and cut 4 - 4" slits up the length. I already have a ghetto, threaded-rod and washer setup for installing headsets.
 
Nice!! :D
 
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