First E-Board build, seeking feedback on dual diagonal setup

[dakster]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Considered an electric folding bike for my commute on the train (has to be folding on the LIRR) where I need to travel 2.7 miles from the train station to work and back.

Ended up buying a San Francisco special ZBoard, which I just recently returned. I was unlucky enough to get a lemon ZBoard, it broke down half the time I used it. Zboard guys were nice enough to take it back and refund my money (their customer service was excellent). I think the connector quality wasn't up the poor condition sidewalks/roads on Long Island. Loose connection meant calling a cab and missing the train, opening up the ZBoard to screw with connections wasn't exactly a side of the road thing. Shame, I loved the feel of the ZBoard.

I'm hooked on the electric skateboard concept though, its a perfect fit for the commuter train. I just need to make one that's more reliable.

So I'm shooting for low top speed, lots of torque, big wheels, and a generally over built board that isn't working too hard so its more reliable. ZBoard was 32lbs or so, and I was fine with that. I'm sure going lipo/brushless will land me with a lighter weight regardless of how much overbuilding I do.

I'm completely fine with a top speed of 15mph. My average speed on the ZBoard, on the rare I made it through the whole commute without calling a cab halfway, hovered in the 8-9mph range. So a top speed of 15mph will be more than adequate. My 2.7 mile commute is all hill though. Nice gradual hill, pretty much the whole way. Figure about 250ft of elevation change over that 2.7 miles. No fun carving or turning, it's pretty much straight shots, so I'll be going stiff bushings. Might help with potential wheel bite (more on that concern below).

And I weigh 270. And I'll have a backpack with laptop, books, etc. Thus the hill-climby torque requirement.


Onto the potential parts list...


Wheels:
97mm Abec 11s, softest I can get. Man I loved those 110mm ZBoard wheels. Did I mention the roads/sidewalks here are freaking bad?


Deck:
Something beefy, like 9 ply maple kinda beefy.
My favorite so far is the Landyachtz Canyon Arrow, but I'm concerned that I might end up with wheel bite with the 97mm wheels. Might need a deck with cutouts.
http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/landyachtz-canyon-arrows-longboard-skateboard-deck

Alternate decks to consider:
Arbor Prodigy
Rayne Rival
Madrid Bigfoot 38

Being new to skateboarding, I'm not sure whether I'd need ridiculous risers on the trucks to go 97mm with the Landyachtz canyon arrow or not.

Trucks:
Torqueboard trucks, I really like the welded aspect. I've been emailing him stupid questions a few weeks, he's been super helpful.

Motors:
Dual 63mm, leaning towards dual 6364 sk3's, with low kv. Perhaps 190kv? Not sure how to figure the interaction between gearing, wheel size, and kv to target a particular top speed (15mph) and leave the rest to torque. Gonna shoot for a dual diagonal setup.

Lipos:
6S I think would be fine, and simplify a lot of other aspects of the system. If the ZBoard could make it, I think dualy outrunners should have no problem at 6S, but I'm anxious to hear feedback. Torqueboards recommended 8S, but I get the impression he's an overbuilder, and 8S seemed to screw up the controller selection. Maybe 8000mah 6S (two lipos in series). I figure moving my large weight uphill for almost 3 miles will chew up some juice.

ESC:
This one I struggled with, but given my experiences with a non-reliable board, I'm thinking two Hobbywing ezrun pros. Even if one motor/belt/esc craps out, the remaining motor/esc hopefully would be adequate to "get me there".The dual brain ESC choices seems fairly limited.

Gearing:
Torqueboards recommended 14/44, but I was thinking 90mm wheels then. Not sure what changes if I bump up to 97mm wheels.

Remote:
Looking forward to trying out the wii controller. Not a fan of the RC car remotes. I know the wii nunchucks take some getting used to based on forum posts, but if I can get used to the ZBoard pressure pads, the wii remote should be pretty easy.


That's the gist of it. Haven't put much thought into enclosures yet. Thoughts/feedback/ponderings from all the gurus out there?

Much thanks in advance for any tips.

 

[psychotiller]

14/44, 97mm, 190kv @ 22.2v would get you 15.24mph. So that would work. 270lbs and 8000mah you'll probably cruise 6 miles between charges. One thing though, you'll need to push off to get rolling before you throttle up. Unless you put sensors on your motors and use sensored ESCs like the HK 150 or I believe the Hobbywing XErun 150 you wont be able to start from a standstill.

9ply is definitely the way to go and with 97's and that deck shape you'll need risers.

I think you'll find, once you get used to longboarding, that having foot controls at either end of a board is awkward. The Wiimote is handsdown (bad pun) the best controller.

Also, speaking of controllers, the EZruns are bombproof and user friendly.

...fine with 34lbs? Wait until you ride an eboard that weighs 16lbs. I doubt you'll look back.

Have fun!

 

[torqueboards]

Honestly, after trying Austin's 8" Pneumatic Board it's pretty awesome for electric boards. Allows you to not have to worry much about the pot holes and the curbs. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58611#p895630 - It definetly adds weight and also the bulkyness but it's worth it.

You can go with the standard setups for now since pneumatic wheels 5", 6 1/4", 8" are still expensive. Looking to spend at least $220-$250 easy. psychotiller has 6 1/4" hubs coming out, onloop has 5" hubs coming out.

Most of my boards are about 14 lbs. Evolve's boards are about 18 lbs. I wouldn't dare try a zboard. I've actually met someone who made their own foot pads based off arduino. I personally won't be too interested in it but if you were. I can see if he was planning on selling them. You'll have to customize your board and cut the holes out.

6S should do fine. 8S would be a bit better for more torque. If you go 6S you can use the EZ-Run ESCs. If you go 8S+ You'll need the 8S 120Amp ESCs. Just personal preference.

 

[dakster]

270lbs and 8000mah you'll probably cruise 6 miles between charges.

On flat land? If so, 8000mah might be tight on a 2.7 mile uphill ride...

One thing though, you'll need to push off to get rolling before you throttle up. Unless you put sensors on your motors and use sensored ESCs like the HK 150 or I believe the Hobbywing XErun 150 you wont be able to start from a standstill.

I'm definitely fine with pushing to get going. And skipping the sensors and sensor ESCs seems like a nice way to simplify things. Less things to break.

9ply is definitely the way to go and with 97's and that deck shape you'll need risers.

I figured the canyon arrow deck would need risers. I'm not against risers, I'm just not sure how ridiculously huge of risers it would have to be. I need to look seriously at other decks though.

Pneumatic Board it's pretty awesome for electric boards

Sounds nice, but I think that would be a stretch to fit onto the train for the commute.

I've actually met someone who made their own foot pads based off arduino. I personally won't be too interested in it but if you were. I can see if he was planning on selling them.

Nah, I'm not interested in trying to recreate the footpads. I've got plenty of I/O gear in my electronics workbench to create something like that if I get the inkling.


I'm curious, how's the braking on the HobbyWing EZRun controllers are. I'd imagine it should be pretty good with dual controllers, and dual 63mm motors.

Thanks for all the tips folks.

 

[torqueboards]

You should get a bit more out of 8000mah. I average about 5000mah = 6 to 8 miles. On the low end, you should get about 1 mile per 1ah/1000mah.

Psychotiller has 6" wheels and onloop has 5" pneumatics. They are big but you may consider it in the future after riding, lol. Allows you to ride over sidewalk curbs and not worry so much with potholes.

For a real lighweight board I plan on going with a 30-32" classic longboard, single motor on 6S 5000mah. Should weigh about 12-13 lbs if not less.

150A Ez Run ESC's are good quality if you plan on sticking with 6S. For dual, you'll need (2) of them and a Y servo connector to connect the ESC signal wires. You could even use 50mm. 63mm is overkill at 6S. Should be very durable since you are using about 20-30% of it's full capacity but it also adds to weight.

97mm wheels are pretty big. It will definitely make your board heavier and you need a ton of clearance to get them to fit. Most likely about 1/2" or more risers depending on your board.

 

[dakster]

You should get a bit more out of 8000mah. I average about 5000mah = 6 to 8 miles. On the low end, you should get about 1 mile per 1ah/1000mah.

Psychotiller has 6" wheels and onloop has 5" pneumatics. They are big but you may consider it in the future after riding, lol. Allows you to ride over sidewalk curbs and not worry so much with potholes.

For a real lighweight board I plan on going with a 30-32" classic longboard, single motor on 6S 5000mah. Should weigh about 12-13 lbs if not less.

150A Ez Run ESC's are good quality if you plan on sticking with 6S. For dual, you'll need (2) of them and a Y servo connector to connect the ESC signal wires. You could even use 50mm. 63mm is overkill at 6S. Should be very durable since you are using about 20-30% of it's full capacity but it also adds to weight.

97mm wheels are pretty big. It will definitely make your board heavier and you need a ton of clearance to get them to fit. Most likely about 1/2" or more risers depending on your board.

Interesting. You think the 63mm's are a waste at 6S? Think two 50mm are up for the weight/hills I'd put it under? I know when we were emailing, I was thinking 8S, and a set of 63mm definitely makes sense then.

 

[psychotiller]

I was factoring in your uphill ride. Should be fine. And as far as motors go, I've only tried a board with a single propdrive 5060 on it one time. I weigh 200 lbs. It did have enough torque on flat to keep me accelerating, but I like my 63mm motors- way better. The tacon bigfoot 160's are the quietest motors I've used as well.

 

[torqueboards]

63mm motors are better. However, you don't use nearly the full amount of power from them not even close. On average it seems we truly only use about 800 to 1500 watts. I'm actually interested to see if anyone has ever hit 3kw in power even if so it's only for a second or two. Most bigger 63mm motors put out about 3kw in total. Hence, my reason for you only using 20-40% of it's actual usage but you carry the added weight on a daily basis. Granted, they are better since they are under utilized, provide a bit more torque.

50mm motors are rated at around 2kw and weigh a bit less. They have a higher kv which is a little less torque. They tend to get a bit warm but not overly hot. 50mm is a great choice for balance of weight and power.

As I don't have complete first hand experience at 270 lbs. I would probably say go with 63mm. I don't want to steer you in the wrong direction. I know the 50mm's are capable of about 230 to 240 lbs easy -- I'm sure the 270lbs is fine. I'm sure it will be fine but if you don't mind the added extra 2-3 lbs.

Shoot, I'd go for Dual 6374's on 6S/8S even 10S. It may add about 4-5 lbs more which isn't a whole lot. 18 or 20lbs total for your board. My first setup was Dual 6374s on 10S but it was severely overkill for me. I'd use maybe 20-30% of the full power. Price isn't a whole lot different.

The 63mm do ride better like psychotiller said. I think it's mainly because you always have the added power - extra gas in the tank. It does cost more but if you don't mind the added expense it's definitely worth it.

Dual 6374's on 10S = beast of a ride...

 

[dakster]

Most likely about 1/2" or more risers depending on your board.

Yeah, I think that's too much riser. I'll have to find a 9ply board with cutouts around the wheels to help avoid wheel bite. I think the 97mm wheels are a must.

 

[made_in_the_alps_legacy]

Maybe you might be interrested in my Onda board built since you mentionned being after "big wheels"
(Click the link in my signature to have a look)

 

[onloop]

Sounds like the 5inch pneumatic wheels would be perfect for your situation. The big diameter wheels allows you to use a very large wheel pulley. This would allow you to gear for higher torque.

My experience would say that Dual 50mm motors are only good for 250 pounds MAX. Any more weight and you will have issues when Going up hills and failure.

Go 190kv 63mm motors and aim for 4:1 ratio..

10AH batteries are such a luxury.... but honestly I wouldn't use anything less now. So if you can afford it got big AH.

 

[dakster]

Pneumatic seems a bit much. I'm not looking for a comfortable ride, I'm looking for a reliable ride. But I'll definitely keep an eye on how the pneumatic stuff plays out. I like what I see in the pre-welded torqueboard trucks, and a more traditional, if oversized, wheel. I already know that the commute is a blast on 110mm ZBoard wheels. 97mm's will be fine I think.

I'm still leaning (at the moment) largely towards my original proposed config, but with a different deck to reduce the riser/wheel bite issue.

Seems the general consensus was the Landyachtz canyon arrow style is bad for a 97mm wheel, I'm curious how folks in the know feel about he Bustin EQ?
http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/bustin-eq-longboard-skateboard-deck-2014
Top mount, fairly flat, decent cutouts. Stiff for holding a heavy dude. Way shorter than anything else I've looked at, being at 36". If I can still fit all the components, I'm not terribly concerned about a 36" board. Would be easier on the train.

Another deck that keeps popping up in my search is a Landyachtz Rotor deck:
http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/landyachtz-rotor-longboard-skateboard-deck
But I'm not sure if that drop is just too much for mounting ESC's, batts, etc.

There's the Madrid bigfoot:
http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/madrid-bigfoot-38-longboard-skateboard-deck-2014
Although I feel like wheel bite might be an issue there too as the cutout around the wheels doesn't seem that big.

The Rayne Rival looks promising:
http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/rayne-rival-longboard-skateboard-deck-2014
Although I'm not sure its really as strong as I need. Surprisingly hard to search for 9-ply boards, and the addition of fiberglass/carbon layers totally throws me.

Then there's the big money drop on a carbon Rotule Desert Eagle:
https://rotulelongboards.com/en/desert-eagle/
Seems like a nicer deck than I deserve, but it seems to be marketed as stronger when you get the expensive "carbon" version.

Given that I weigh 270, and want 97mm wheels, I'm willing to splurge on the deck.

Anyone out there who has any tips on deck selection, for a super heavy rider, with bite/clearance issues of 97mm wheels?

 

[torqueboards]

Pneumatic! LOL --- Once you ride one... it's pretty ridiculous and the "bit much" seems do able.. Your like cloud riding.. I do wish I could switch from the electro brakes though. Could add some but

I like these boards here.. I'm going to get one of them once I get my All Terrain Longboard Wheels.

https://www.muirskate.com/longboard/decks/44801/Arbor-Derek-Nobbs-Series-Axis-GT-Longboard-Skateboard-Deck-w-Grip.html - $89.95
https://www.muirskate.com/longboard/decks/50061/Arbor-2014-Koa-Axis-Longboard-Skateboard-Deck-w-Grip.html - $99.95
https://www.muirskate.com/longboard/decks/48441/Sector-9-2014-Dropper-Longboard-Skateboard-Deck-w-Grip.html $93.95 *This one's got a bit of kicktail area that helps pop the boards up for commuting.

 

[dakster]

Pneumatic! LOL --- Once you ride one...

Hmm. Besides the obvious gearing differences and wheels themselves, I guess going 5" pneumatic would mean your motor mount welded onto a different kind of truck than the Paris ones?

 

[torqueboards]

They fit regular longboard axles at least the ones that psychotiller/onloop are making.

 

[dakster]

They fit regular longboard axles at least the ones that psychotiller/onloop are making.

I think I've decided on the unfortunately expensive Rotule Carbon Desert Eagle.
https://rotulelongboards.com/en/desert-eagle/

Seem flat enough, crazy strong, and cutouts for the 97mm wheels. I think I have enough cutout there to reconfigure to a pneumatic setup there in the future, but I want to see if the supply/sources for them firms up over time. I want an easily repairable board, and I don't wanna be the heavy weight guinea pig on the wheels.

Does that board seem to work ok for 97mm and potentially 5" pneumatics in the future?

 

[torqueboards]

That works. Good luck on the build It should fit if not, you can always cut out a bit of the deck and/or longer trucks.

 

[dakster]

That works. Good luck on the build It should fit if not, you can always cut out a bit of the deck and/or longer trucks.

Cool. I'm think I'm set to start ordering the major parts. I'll pm ya later today to setup the order for trucks and such.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[beetbocks]

Hi
I would go with the dual diagonal 50mm motor setup but for extra durability go with the 63mm motors- you may not use the full potential of the motor but they are a lot more robust..
check out my kits which can be fitted to any Caliber Truck and allow the use of different size wheels and motors..
http://www.aliendrivesystems.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

I would go for the 7s powered freestyler..