My build(s) Single 6374 170kv & Dual 50mm 270KV

WeeChumlee

1 kW
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
346
HI guys
Thought it was about time I started my own build thread. Could be long and boring so be warned now.

I started with the idea to build a board in 2014 after seeing something on the internet somewhere. As one does I thew myself into the deep end without much (any) thought on the matter.
Bought a board and a 50mm / 6S 8Ah motor kit from Alienpowersystems and the drive kit from Aliendrive.
Slapped it all together on the fly and went for a burn.
Electrics.jpg
Well, what can I say. Went better than I thought - promptly fell off and broke my shoulder blade.
After that i did what any sane bloke would do - drank beer and thought about how to do it better.
First I upgrade the box for electrics:
Bottom.jpg
This all worked but the board was well bouncy and the first Flier ESC went tits up pretty fast.
Upgraded from 120A to 200A Flier ESC - also went tits up. They don't like it when you break a lot down long hills.
Alienpower did replace them but it always took an age..... Ended up with a 300A ESC which is still going - though breaking is all or stuff all. (Face plant or hit obstacle decision)

During all the time it took to get replacement ESCs I bought a Chinese board (LecDec in UK - is a Backfire board).
Can't knock it for the price, is actually a nice board. 50mm motor and has the FVT ESC. A perfect board for friends to ride or a back-up for yourself.
Friends.jpg

Oh, and I bought a new board for my build with less bounce and a kicktail. Like this one.
First stack of boards
stack.jpg

With the new Kicktail board I decided to do a bit of fiberglassing - never done that before so what the hell.
Made a compartment for the electrics, cut out a hole for access and covered that with a leather flap.
Yeah not a thing of beauty but works a charm.
Version2.jpg

Then I thought, hey if a 50mm motor can pull my lard ass around then a 63mm must be better. And a 15mm instead of 9mm belt and gears.
Oh yeah, and why not 97mm wheels instead of 83mm.
So did that.
15mm.jpg

I must add here that Richard at Aliendrive was more than helpful.
I was also thinking of the next build which was to be a pneumatic dual. Ricahrd helped me here as well as making a pulley system for my 97mm Abec clone wheels.
Also set me up with 15mm gears and belts.
Cheers Richard you are a star.

So, the single motor build is reaching completion. Once the next build is tested (at point of writing one wet and cold run) with VESCs I will decide on whether to change this to a VESC as well.
** Decision made - OH YEAH VESC!! ** One run was enough, braking especially is just so perfect. (All very well going fast but without breaks that work well it is just silly)

So, onto the next.
Dual 50mm 270K motors with pneumatic wheels.
Bought a Lush board and added Paris trucks - was skeptical due to heavy curvature but really like it already.
Lush board.jpg

Bought a pair of VESCs from Chaka. Placed these on spacers and added small heat sinks to the FETS.
Can't harm to keep them aired up and cool.
View attachment 5
Slapped a latex jacket over the batteries and placed everything on the board for a quick fix.
electrics2.jpg

Made a cardboard box as a plug for the fiberglass box. Cardboard as the board has good curvature and cardboard is easy to cut to fit the curves.
Before fine cuts
Cardboard box.jpg

Slapped fiberglass on - it was bloody cold and wet that day so is just a first box. Did no rolling or anything just really slapped on. Result was shoddy of course but still works well enough for a first test.
View attachment 2

I live in a block of flats, has a garage but without electricity. (Duuuhhh!!)
So my lounge become my workshop. Women should be in the kitchen anyway. (OK, OK - only joking)
Workshop.jpg

So first post done. Will update as the dual build gets along - well as soon as it is dry enough to get a decent run in anyway.

Cheers
WeeCh
 
Just another note concerning the VESCs.
To all out there who are as I was, a bit sceptical about the setup, don't worry to much about it.
The information is all a bit dispersed which I think is the real downfall.
For those selling the VESCs I would urge you to make one single document that describes the settings and setup of the VESC.
Pointing to various you tube videos and other external sites is, IMHO, a bit of a cop-out.
There is not to much to it and it would be nice to understand what some of the settings are. Most are probably not needed as the default values will suffice - but it would be nice to know and understand.
My experience so far with the VESC:
I tried the FOC mode with my 50mm 270KV motors and a 8S 8Ah battery.
All seemed to go well during setup but the control under load was shaky at best. Something in the setup was obviously wrong.
I changed to BLDC mode and motor detection was quick and easy. Placed those values where they belong and all seems to be perfect.
Have only done one 5km run in the cold and wet but all was great.
Will let you know how I get on once I get some decent runs in. Will also try to get some real time data logged. Strap my small laptop to the board. Hehe
 
Great builds! Love to see the progression.

Yeah, once you ride a board w/ VESC it's hard to go back to a regular hobby ESC. I've not tried Torque/DIYes 12s ESC to compare though.

Will follow these builds!
 
WeeChumlee said:
Just another note concerning the VESCs.
To all out there who are as I was, a bit sceptical about the setup, don't worry to much about it.
The information is all a bit dispersed which I think is the real downfall.
For those selling the VESCs I would urge you to make one single document that describes the settings and setup of the VESC.
Pointing to various you tube videos and other external sites is, IMHO, a bit of a cop-out.
There is not to much to it and it would be nice to understand what some of the settings are. Most are probably not needed as the default values will suffice - but it would be nice to know and understand.
My experience so far with the VESC:
I tried the FOC mode with my 50mm 270KV motors and a 8S 8Ah battery.
All seemed to go well during setup but the control under load was shaky at best. Something in the setup was obviously wrong.
I changed to BLDC mode and motor detection was quick and easy. Placed those values where they belong and all seems to be perfect.
Have only done one 5km run in the cold and wet but all was great.
Will let you know how I get on once I get some decent runs in. Will also try to get some real time data logged. Strap my small laptop to the board. Hehe

Yes this would be extremely helpfull having a VESC guide for begginers, and i mean real begginers! A how to from very beggining,....from how to connect, what to download and step by step configuration !

Heat Sink ?? ....do we need these now on the Vesc?
FOC & BLDC Modes,.... i have no idea what that even is ??

To be honest ìm fine with this first build ,....Only the VESC part kinda intimidates me !!
 
And so the stack grows..
Stack2.jpg

Definitely an addictive quality to these things. :p :p

About the heat sinks.
I should have left one without heat sinks and then compared the temperatures, it would probably have been a lot more helpful an an insight as to whether they are needed or not.
From other builds I have seen on here it would seem that they are not a necessity in most cases.
I work within the semiconductor industry and cooling is always a major factor so just went with the flow. I make my housings large enough not to have to fiddle if I can. Here I had space to do it so I did. The thermal glue (not thermal paste) and heat sinks are very cheap (Ebay) and fitting is a matter of seconds. Personally I would say that if you have the space to do it then I would recommend it. The cooler you can get the FETs to run the better. (Not at all saying that it will not work fine without though.)

I was thinking of doing a step by step walk-through of my experience with the VESC setup but not sure if that would be a good idea.
It would be a "How I did it" and not necessarily a "How to do it".
Also it would just be another part of a splintered/exploded (dis)information written by a total noob to a very fine piece of electronic engineering.
I take my hat off to Vedder and his electronic knowledge. Also all the others who are involved in the development (such as porting the software to Windows to make it available to the majority of us). These guys devote time, skill and energy into this project and it is amazing what they achieve. Respect!
 
yep..i know..im on my 12th build now!! lol..
IMG_2226_zpsdbc1978a.jpg

20150315_223516_zpse0kkjavw.jpg


ive been asked about heat sinks on the VESC..even on 12s are they not needed?
 
OK, small update.
Got another run in yesterday evening. Was bloody cold but dry so I could not wait.
Wanted to do test run, set a course then do it again with the laptop strapped to the board to get some real-time data. (I believe this is possible in the VESC - whether I can do it or not is another thing but I shall try)
Anyway, run went fine. 6km course set.
Got home and saw one belt was running slightly off center so thought I would adjust that.
You know how it is - just a tad, hmmm, a tad more, no just a micrometer; hell man you went to far - start again.
In my excitement and heavy handedness I managed to strip the thread.
Stripped.jpg

What an idiot!!
Good thing I have a backup board as the sun is out today. Looking out the office window (where I am working awfully hard, honest) and wanting to be out there.

Already ordered the replacement. Beetbocks from AlienDrive actually answered my mail at 10pm - does this guy never sleep? :p
Going to order a VESC for my single 63mm build as well. I will then have a decent range of test criteria to show.
Single 63mm vs Dual 50mm.
Can do range, temperature and current tests which should be interesting. (Well to me at the very least)

To anyone who knows more about the VESC
To do the data logging over a period of say 30 minutes - is it that simple that I just choose the time interval and let it run?
I suppose the only limitation is the laptop memory and nothing int eh BLDC program?

Cheers and have a great weekend all.
 
Consider tapping out the stripped thread-hole to the next larger size, then inserting a heli-coil (looks like a coil spring, it is made from steel and replaces the threads). With aluminum threads I like to use a split lock-washer as a tension-guide. Once its fully compressed, I stop turning.

hqdefault.jpg


Depending on how much meat is there in the mount, it may be possible to cut a slot, into which you could insert a square-sided steel nut.

tnutcorner.jpg


Your use of the words bloody and flats suggests you're from (or currently are in) the UK/Australia? The sunny weather in the pic implies a safer bet would be Oz?
 
Hi Spinningmagnets

I had indeed thought about the heli-coils. May still do that to keep as a spare.
Luckily though Beetbocks had a part to hand and they are not too expensive, so I ordered that.
Just kicking myself for treating aluminium as if it were steel. My own silly fault.
The slot idea won't work here but is a variant I may use elsewhere for woodwork. Thanks

Good deduction old chap, I am indeed in the UK. I managed to take the pic during our UK summer which usually lies between 14:30 and 16:00 on August 15th. :D :D
 
Just another small update.
VESC for my single 63mm build will have to wait a while. Wanted to order one from Chaka but none to hand.
As it is still so cold and wet here it can wait till the weather improves a bit. Until then the present 300A Flier ESC will have to do.

Did a range test on the dual 50mm with 8S - 8Ah battery. (Pneumatic wheels)
To provide a bit of safety for the battery I set the first cut-off voltage in the VESC to 27.2V, this worked very well as the board did indeed have a slow cut-off and when I then measured the cells they were all between 3.3 -> 3.4V.
Range done was +- 8 miles (12-13km).
Bit low but it was cold (under 5°C) and was real world conditions with hills and a lot of stop-start along the promenade. I tend to try be as unobtrusive as possible along the promenade as there are obviously a lot of people there and it only takes one wa__er to complain and they will probably ban electric boards or something like that. So lots of accelerate-brake which would cut range.
Be interesting to see the difference when it is a bit warmer and maybe a slightly different route with not quite as many stop-starts. It will still be on rough pavements, up/down hills and nowhere near constant speed though.
I realise range tests are very subjective. There are so many factors that influence it. I think my range is probably on the bottom limit of what one can expect due to my riding style and conditions. Most would get more range I would expect.

Direct comparisons between the 63mm single and 50mm dual - which I am real eager to do, will probably have to wait a good few weeks yet for the weather to at least get a wee bit better.
 
Hi WeeChumlee, nice boards!!

Could you tell me your what's your gear in the single setup?, I would like mine geared for torque too.
Thanks
 
Hi Leonard

The single 63mm motor build has a 15T on the motor and a 44T on the wheel, using a 15mm belt.
I would really recommend a 15mm belt on this sort of setup as I had trouble with the 9mm belt slipping, especially under braking.
Does add extra resistance when pushing - but if I wanted to push I would not have put a motor on it. :D :D
Pulls like a train and the motor never gets hot.
 
Hi all
Just did a run on my dual 50mm board with the computer strapped to the deck.
Wanted to see what sort of temperatures and currents are happening on the VESC.
Did a short run into town, then along the promenade and from there up a rather steep hill.
Not awfully long but is steep. I have done it on my bicycle but was in 1st gear and struggling.
Did a video capture of the BLDC.
I wish I could get the BLDC Data Logger to work but I have no idea of how.
Would be good to see this in conjunction with a video.

Can be seen here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzlHid4NFBQ&feature=youtu.be

Once I have a VESC on my single 63mm board it will be interesting to see the comparison.
Will take a while yet though I'm afraid.

Cheers
 

Attachments

  • Test Run.mp4
    7.9 MB
Hi Randy

According to the VESC that was the maximum.
That being said it is of course just for one motor, so that must be doubled for total power used.
That is about 2400W, +- 3HP, so not an insignificant amount really.
Amazing what these small motors can do.
 
For the same hill, same laod (me) and same speed the power would have to be the same - so theoretically the single motor would have to draw the 2400W as well.
Once I have the VESC on my single build it will be interesting to see, but that is going to wait until the weather gets better. Permanently wet here. :( :(
 
really curious about the difference - will tell us a little bit about the efficiency of these 2 setups! would be great if you could integrate the power and then divide it by recorded time. should have a little bit more meaning than comparing the few peak moments. :)
 
Hi whitepony,

I quite agree, will be interesting to see and I look forward to doing it.
I think the power/time/distance problem is probably best just left to the BLDC calculation of the total Wh drawn.
I shall endeavor to do exactly the same route in approximately the same time and see what the BLDC tool says for total power drawn.

I see your Tesseract is coming along nicely, really neat setup you have there mate.
 
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