Matt Gruber
1 MW
quite a surprise, at least to me 
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Study shows old neighborhoods subsidize the suburbs- newer post, zoning mistakes
- Thread starter Matt Gruber
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Squilt
100 mW
Really makes sense when you think about it, but this line of thinking is kept away from the general public. They're all made to think cars are the most economic form of transportation. And this is just one of the reasons why it isn't.
DanGT86
100 kW
That is an interesting vid.
I have thought this for years based on what I see at home in St. Louis MO compared to the rest of Missouri. St. Louis and Kansas city MO are the economic engines of the state and have crumbling infrastructure. Driving to the middle of nowhere you fine beautiful new roads and bridges. Seems like the money is collected based on population and distributed based on area.
I always thought a major contributor was the fact that rich people move away from the industrial busy regions leaving only the poor to live next to all the businesses and factories that pay all the taxes.
Seems like a case of "not in my backyard" combined with the basic density people and stuff.
I have thought this for years based on what I see at home in St. Louis MO compared to the rest of Missouri. St. Louis and Kansas city MO are the economic engines of the state and have crumbling infrastructure. Driving to the middle of nowhere you fine beautiful new roads and bridges. Seems like the money is collected based on population and distributed based on area.
I always thought a major contributor was the fact that rich people move away from the industrial busy regions leaving only the poor to live next to all the businesses and factories that pay all the taxes.
Seems like a case of "not in my backyard" combined with the basic density people and stuff.
Matt Gruber
1 MW
Taxes are low in my area, now i realize why. Lots of 50' lots. there is even a section with 20'x50 lots. and it is legal to build a small house.
my lot is 50x150. previously i thought it was dumb, should be 75x100, BUT that would require more streets, sewers, water, electric. and higher taxes. these were often sold as vacation houses, so they wanted costs low
my lot is 50x150. previously i thought it was dumb, should be 75x100, BUT that would require more streets, sewers, water, electric. and higher taxes. these were often sold as vacation houses, so they wanted costs low
Matt Gruber
1 MW
another surprise to me, is that Japan has "anything goes" zoning, or really no zoning
say you grow up in Japan, and want to fix up and sell bikes at home, no problems like in the usa. here you need a shop in a commercial zone.
AND houses in japan are treated like old boring cars, and often have no value after 30 years. this video says property taxes drop to $75 and you pay more if you tear down the house
free houses in japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1AOm17ZUVI&ab_channel=PolyMatter
say you grow up in Japan, and want to fix up and sell bikes at home, no problems like in the usa. here you need a shop in a commercial zone.
AND houses in japan are treated like old boring cars, and often have no value after 30 years. this video says property taxes drop to $75
and you pay more if you tear down the house free houses in japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1AOm17ZUVI&ab_channel=PolyMatter
Matt Gruber
1 MW
My town has turned into a driving disaster. I'm told all of FL is like this now. What went wrong? Could be many things, but here is just one. (I quit driving 9-21 because it was awful, and there is a separate bike path with no traffic lights.)
Every business is zoned business only. HUGE mistake. Imagine if all the new stores like walmart, home depot, etc etc, had a 2nd floor for apartments! Maybe most people don't want to live above a store, but they would be less expensive because there is already a building with parking, sewers, water, etc. Maybe some employees live there, so they are not driving to work. Maybe 10% of traffic disappears if all business was mixed use.
Not a new idea at all. before cars took over, most stores had upper floors. I once dated a young woman that lived above my store
That was in Philly in 1976. This type of mixed use zoning is prohibited now. Big mistake.
Every business is zoned business only. HUGE mistake. Imagine if all the new stores like walmart, home depot, etc etc, had a 2nd floor for apartments! Maybe most people don't want to live above a store, but they would be less expensive because there is already a building with parking, sewers, water, etc. Maybe some employees live there, so they are not driving to work. Maybe 10% of traffic disappears if all business was mixed use.
Not a new idea at all. before cars took over, most stores had upper floors. I once dated a young woman that lived above my store
That was in Philly in 1976. This type of mixed use zoning is prohibited now. Big mistake.CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING
10 kW
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Not Just Bikes has been doing WORK. After he and Strong Towns began making videos most the Discord groups I'm in began extolling their virtues because the videos are so well made and do an excellent job of making a difficult issue easy to understand.
Also says quite a lot that several red-dominated states began passing specific tax and zoning laws to keep bike paths from spreading in the last couple of years. If you're getting THAT kind of response, you're doing something right I suppose.
Also says quite a lot that several red-dominated states began passing specific tax and zoning laws to keep bike paths from spreading in the last couple of years. If you're getting THAT kind of response, you're doing something right I suppose.
I have never heard so much nonsense (propaganda) condensed into 10 minutes of video.
Matt Gruber
1 MW
check out the 1954 GM propaganda film that helped get everybody to focus on cars as #1
People choosing to live a suburban car based lifestyle is not the result of propaganda. It's a personal choice. People inhabit all kinds of areas, from wilderness to dense urban concrete jungles. With the freedom of movement a guaranteed right, everyone just goes where they want.
A lot of people, especially people that can afford it, prefer the suburban life style.
The point they tried to make of how poor dense neighborhoods support suburbs is absurd.
Matt Gruber
1 MW
I always thought that people that could not afford to live in the city, moved where it was cheaper. Maybe not everybody, but those that are aware of all the activities want to be where the action is.
Do the math on any city, it will likely show the suburbs are crazy expensive to fix the roads, sewers, etc. Even cops cost more, as they don't always need a car in the city. The gov employees just divide up revenues, and do whatever they please, and like many they like the quiet suburbs, and don't try to put the money back where it comes from.
Look at the muni bond debts; huge borrowing to fix the sprawling infrastructure despite the dense areas paying plenty. Suburbs are not paying their fair share, and borrowing instead.
Do the math on any city, it will likely show the suburbs are crazy expensive to fix the roads, sewers, etc. Even cops cost more, as they don't always need a car in the city. The gov employees just divide up revenues, and do whatever they please, and like many they like the quiet suburbs, and don't try to put the money back where it comes from.
Look at the muni bond debts; huge borrowing to fix the sprawling infrastructure despite the dense areas paying plenty. Suburbs are not paying their fair share, and borrowing instead.
It sounds as if you are from Europe, not the USA. Urban living has been on the decline since the 1920's. Right when automobiles became commonplace.
All of that is built and fixed using local taxes and fees. It's nobody else's business.
Poor urban neighborhoods don't subsidize anyone. They are very deep in the red. Everyone else is subsidizing them in fact, to the tune of $2-5 in outside subsidies for every $1 they pay in taxes.
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Matt Gruber
1 MW
Europe has cars too. I like their focus on having a nice place to live.
Good urban neighborhoods subsidize suburbia. That was the point of the video. not the ghetto.
Seems 90% in the usa are happy with the current zoning. If fossil fuels are going to be reduced, there has to be change. The main reason i'm happy without a car is this was zoned commercial 1930-1988, and the city finally gave up the plan and allowed houses. I have Publix, Dollar General, EBike shop, Urgent care, Bells, Dentists, PackN Ship, 7/11, gas, Banks etc all within a 10 min bike ride. And 4 minutes to walk to the beach Area has 1729 residents, not exactly a big city. The point is NOT that we all need to live in a big city, in a high rise apt. If I don't need a car, forcing everybody to drive everywhere is just poor planning that wastes gas and makes sterile areas with numerous metal boxes with people hidden inside. I actually meet neighbors when i'm in my garden because there is a rear commercial delivery alley out back, and they walk their dogs. This was not the plan from 1930- it failed and created a wonderful, friendly neighborhood by mistake
Good urban neighborhoods subsidize suburbia. That was the point of the video. not the ghetto.
Seems 90% in the usa are happy with the current zoning. If fossil fuels are going to be reduced, there has to be change. The main reason i'm happy without a car is this was zoned commercial 1930-1988, and the city finally gave up the plan and allowed houses. I have Publix, Dollar General, EBike shop, Urgent care, Bells, Dentists, PackN Ship, 7/11, gas, Banks etc all within a 10 min bike ride. And 4 minutes to walk to the beach
Area has 1729 residents, not exactly a big city. The point is NOT that we all need to live in a big city, in a high rise apt. If I don't need a car, forcing everybody to drive everywhere is just poor planning that wastes gas and makes sterile areas with numerous metal boxes with people hidden inside. I actually meet neighbors when i'm in my garden because there is a rear commercial delivery alley out back, and they walk their dogs. This was not the plan from 1930- it failed and created a wonderful, friendly neighborhood by mistake
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Matt Gruber
1 MW
i like walking on Hill Street, 1st street behind the beach front houses. Houses are awesome, a treat for the eyes. Here is one for sale https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2101-Hill-St-New-Smyrna-Beach-FL-32169/48076437_zpid/
see pic #35 is this awesome or what? And YES you CAN drive on the beach. Totally awesome.
pic#4 shows mixed zoning- a high rise next to single family houses.
You can bet the taxes in this 1930's neighborhood subsidize new sprawling neighborhoods zoned R1.
see pic #35 is this awesome or what? And YES you CAN drive on the beach. Totally awesome.
pic#4 shows mixed zoning- a high rise next to single family houses.
You can bet the taxes in this 1930's neighborhood subsidize new sprawling neighborhoods zoned R1.
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