thunderstorm80
1 kW
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
- Messages
- 383
Hi,
Please help me decide here...
I am currently building a heavy touring bike which will have a 7.5Kg DD motor on the front (H3525), and 4Kg ezee motor on the rear.
There would be a 12Kg battery which will be secured on the top of the rear rack.
The bike will have two big rear panniers (70Liters of space), two front rear panniers (40Liters), and a handlebar basket.
The total weight of the machine, including the rider, can approach 150Kg. (for example if you need to pack food and water for 2 full days in a desert route)
The application is for long distance rides, far from home.
I currently have two optional frames:
One is Merida crossway frame which is a hard-tail touring frame: Accepts narrower than MTB tires and because of that it's geometry is more stiff (something between road geometry and MTB), has better rack and kickstand support, and other touring gimmicks.
The second frame is Trek MTB hard-tail frame, which surprisingly can accept my Schwalbe big apple 28 x 2.35inch tire. (622x60)
On the Merida I can only fit my Schwalbe marathon touring plus tires, which are practically (and truly) flatless, and are 622x47 wide. (28x1.75inch)
The Trek of course can accept those too, but the reason for going with the Trek is if I think wider tires are more important.
And this is where I come to a big dilema... :|
Schwalbe marathon touring plus: (622x47)
Pros:
- Flatless, which is highly important for far away rides...
Cons:
- Works at high minimum pressure - 45PSI, meaning a hard time over bumpy roads and more stress for the frame, bearings, spokes, due to the very heavy weight. The luggage will suffer as well, especially if you carry fresh fruits or vegetables, and you happen to run into an invisible pot-hole... I am actually afraid I might break rack bolts, or shorten the life of other components if I happen to go over bad terrain too often since we talk about way more than the average weight that maybe bike components (and those narrow tires) weren't meant to take? What is the weight loading limit for the spokes (and for rims and tires but that also depends on their width) that bicycles can safely take?
- You can't cycle on gravel offroads to do road bypassing, due to the small contact area and the high pressure of the tire, unless you go really really slow - which takes away all the fun. (unless you like bone shaking)
Schwalbe big apple: (622x60)
Pros:
- Works at much lower pressures. Pressure can be as low as 30PSI. This makes the cushion more than double of the touring tire. This means the opposite of the "Cons" I wrote for the touring plus tire.
- Rolling resistance for the same pressure (and the same bone-shaking notch level) would be lower. (if I inflate it to least 45PSI, which is the minimum allowed on the touring plus). It can go up to 55PSI while the touring plus can go to 70PSI.
- Gravel offroads, and even some light offroads trails can be accessed, removing the road-only limit and opening possibilities.
Cons:
- Puncture resistance is way lower, yet still considered good. I also know that the lower working pressure do it's part to decrease the likelihood of flats. Still, it is VERY BAD to get stuck in the middle of the desert with a fully loaded 70Kg E-bike, and have to go through all the disassembly (torque arms, battery, luggage, disconnect the motor's wires) in order to fix a flat...
I once had a flat on my other E-bike, which runs Schwalbe super-moto 27.5 x 2.4inch tires. Those have -almost- the same protection level as the marathons, and are designed for fast E-bikes. I was so surprised when it happened, not to mention the nightmare of having to disassemble half the bike so I can fit it in the back sit of a car and get a lift home.
What is your take on this?
Assume I have here good quality roads mostly, but in some parts of my city, some remote roads and in some villages, road quality can be bumpy and poor. Going into a pot-hole at night with the touring tire sounds way more intimidating than with the soft big apple.
Also assume that on either frame I will choose there would be a short-travel 60mm suspension fork.
Here are some more wonders:
- The marathons peak their width with the Marathon MTB 29er x 2.1inch tire. It is wider, but I heard mediocre reviews about it's bad grip on the roads during rain (due to it's more knobby pattern), and it got not so good reviews even on offroads if it's wet over there as well. It's rolling resistance is also higher compared with the marathon-tour and the big apple.
- Do you think the Maxxis Hookworms (29er x 2.5inch) can give a better protection due to the more aggressive urban-riding nature? (the width difference is negligible)
- I already asked that on another thread, but if you do know of flatless tire (truly flatless like the Marathons), which is at least 2.3 inch wide and has road trekking threads, it would be nice to know.
Thanks for your help with this decision...
Please help me decide here...
I am currently building a heavy touring bike which will have a 7.5Kg DD motor on the front (H3525), and 4Kg ezee motor on the rear.
There would be a 12Kg battery which will be secured on the top of the rear rack.
The bike will have two big rear panniers (70Liters of space), two front rear panniers (40Liters), and a handlebar basket.
The total weight of the machine, including the rider, can approach 150Kg. (for example if you need to pack food and water for 2 full days in a desert route)
The application is for long distance rides, far from home.
I currently have two optional frames:
One is Merida crossway frame which is a hard-tail touring frame: Accepts narrower than MTB tires and because of that it's geometry is more stiff (something between road geometry and MTB), has better rack and kickstand support, and other touring gimmicks.
The second frame is Trek MTB hard-tail frame, which surprisingly can accept my Schwalbe big apple 28 x 2.35inch tire. (622x60)
On the Merida I can only fit my Schwalbe marathon touring plus tires, which are practically (and truly) flatless, and are 622x47 wide. (28x1.75inch)
The Trek of course can accept those too, but the reason for going with the Trek is if I think wider tires are more important.
And this is where I come to a big dilema... :|
Schwalbe marathon touring plus: (622x47)
Pros:
- Flatless, which is highly important for far away rides...
Cons:
- Works at high minimum pressure - 45PSI, meaning a hard time over bumpy roads and more stress for the frame, bearings, spokes, due to the very heavy weight. The luggage will suffer as well, especially if you carry fresh fruits or vegetables, and you happen to run into an invisible pot-hole... I am actually afraid I might break rack bolts, or shorten the life of other components if I happen to go over bad terrain too often since we talk about way more than the average weight that maybe bike components (and those narrow tires) weren't meant to take? What is the weight loading limit for the spokes (and for rims and tires but that also depends on their width) that bicycles can safely take?
- You can't cycle on gravel offroads to do road bypassing, due to the small contact area and the high pressure of the tire, unless you go really really slow - which takes away all the fun. (unless you like bone shaking)
Schwalbe big apple: (622x60)
Pros:
- Works at much lower pressures. Pressure can be as low as 30PSI. This makes the cushion more than double of the touring tire. This means the opposite of the "Cons" I wrote for the touring plus tire.
- Rolling resistance for the same pressure (and the same bone-shaking notch level) would be lower. (if I inflate it to least 45PSI, which is the minimum allowed on the touring plus). It can go up to 55PSI while the touring plus can go to 70PSI.
- Gravel offroads, and even some light offroads trails can be accessed, removing the road-only limit and opening possibilities.
Cons:
- Puncture resistance is way lower, yet still considered good. I also know that the lower working pressure do it's part to decrease the likelihood of flats. Still, it is VERY BAD to get stuck in the middle of the desert with a fully loaded 70Kg E-bike, and have to go through all the disassembly (torque arms, battery, luggage, disconnect the motor's wires) in order to fix a flat...
I once had a flat on my other E-bike, which runs Schwalbe super-moto 27.5 x 2.4inch tires. Those have -almost- the same protection level as the marathons, and are designed for fast E-bikes. I was so surprised when it happened, not to mention the nightmare of having to disassemble half the bike so I can fit it in the back sit of a car and get a lift home.
What is your take on this?
Assume I have here good quality roads mostly, but in some parts of my city, some remote roads and in some villages, road quality can be bumpy and poor. Going into a pot-hole at night with the touring tire sounds way more intimidating than with the soft big apple.
Also assume that on either frame I will choose there would be a short-travel 60mm suspension fork.
Here are some more wonders:
- The marathons peak their width with the Marathon MTB 29er x 2.1inch tire. It is wider, but I heard mediocre reviews about it's bad grip on the roads during rain (due to it's more knobby pattern), and it got not so good reviews even on offroads if it's wet over there as well. It's rolling resistance is also higher compared with the marathon-tour and the big apple.
- Do you think the Maxxis Hookworms (29er x 2.5inch) can give a better protection due to the more aggressive urban-riding nature? (the width difference is negligible)
- I already asked that on another thread, but if you do know of flatless tire (truly flatless like the Marathons), which is at least 2.3 inch wide and has road trekking threads, it would be nice to know.
Thanks for your help with this decision...
