Doc GOT 100 samples of Titanate LTO cells update 6june 2011

[Doctorbass]

Happy happy happy !

I have a contact to get the new Lithium Titanate cells that charge in 5 minutes and have over 10000cycles

These cells are developped HERE in Quebec province and i would be really proud to test them for you

In fact they are both nano-titanate oxide (Li4Ti5O12) anode and lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) cathode

I should get 100 cells direct from the manufacture and to the agreement of the Dr who created them and have couples of patents.

Tese cells have hald the energy density but they can pump over 10kW per kg !!

These cells was created for the 5 minutes charge electric car platform. They are still not released
but i can get samples.

They asked for me about how many i want to have.. I said enough to power up to 40kW during 20sec.

I should get them in the next two weeks

What is probably more powerfull than nanotech? but less than the saft 150C cells?

The Lithium titanate from my source!!!

Sumarry:
The combination of lithium nano-titanate oxide (Li4Ti5O12) anode and lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) cathode is a leading candidate for this application. This combination of electrode materials provides a high degree of safety, long cycle life and rapid charge in 5 minutes.The advantages of Li4Ti5O12 are high stable structure without passivation, flat voltage profile of 1.5 V, high safety and low cost. The electrochemical investigation was carried out using 18650 cell with standard organic electrolyte, and the cell demonstrated a remarkable cycle life (see Fig.1). A very stable discharge capacity was obtained at a 5C discharge rate (12 minutes) and 15C charge rate (4 minutes). The capacity remained almost constant at 850 mAh/g for approximately 30,000 cycles at 100% DOD [1]. Security tests was performed on the 18650 cell in the charged state after 30,000 cycles. The crush test (see Fig 2) showed a maximum temperature of 72°C. The nail penetration test revealed that the cell reached a maximum temperature of 103°C, with a small amount of electrolyte escaping from the cell. Finally, a short-circuit test showed a maximum temperature of 63°C. For all three tests no smoke, no flames and no explosion were observed.Because of these significant and promising results, PHET (Taiwan) developed a unique system of protection for EV battery packs consisting of 18650 cells.



Same cells as shown in this larger scale prototype:





Doc

[kfong]

That's great Doc, post pictures. Nice to see safer battery chemistry being made. I look forward to your reviews.

[neptronix]

Hmm.. so only 1.5v nominal? is that what is meant
That would not be fun to balance.

But... over 100,000 cycles?
I wonder about calendar life.. if it can be over 20 years, that is amazing..

This could be the battery that makes electric cars happen.

I think i will still take lipo though for the low weight and size.

[Doctorbass]

some more info here: http://www.neicorporation.com/white-pap ... teries.pdf

[grindz145]

NFW. The cycle life promise on these things are unbelievable. On the other hand, they're made of titanium. Can't believe they're affordable..... Amazing doc.

[spinningmagnets]

I don't drive my car every day, so...lets just say 333 cycles per year as an average? If I charge up and drain the pack once a day (if not charging at work), then...

Three years equaling approximately 1,000 cycles, so...30,000 cycles is about...90 years?

Even if they actually "only" last 30 years of daily cycles, this is VERY good news!

From wikipedia (concerning "peak titanium"):

...Titanium is the ninth-most abundant element in the Earth's crust (0.63% by mass), and the seventh-most abundant metal. It is present in most igneous rocks and in sediments...Of the 801 types of igneous rocks analyzed by the United States Geological Survey, 784 contained titanium. Its proportion in soils is approximately 0.5 to 1.5%...It is widely distributed...Significant titanium-bearing deposits exist in western Australia, Canada, China, India, Mozambique, New Zealand, Norway, and Ukraine. Large quantities of are also mined in North America and South Africa and help contribute to the annual worldwide production of 90,000 tonnes of the metal and 4.3 million tonnes of titanium dioxide. Total reserves of titanium are estimated to exceed 600 million tonnes...

[Lock]

Pretty cool Doc!

Yah, cheap LTO should be a game changer... I'll see your 10,000 and raise you another 10,000:

Yintong.jpg (41.49 KiB) Viewed 12606 times

Lock

[John in CR]

Put me down for beta testing a 5kwh sample?

[liveforphysics]

I have a box of samples of toshibas SICB cells on my desk at work.

It's toshibas lithium Titanate. They are OK. Nothing close to a nano-tech (except in charge rate).

[liveforphysics]

Pretty cool Doc!

Yah, cheap LTO should be a game changer... I'll see your 10,000 and raise you another 10,000:

Yintong.jpg

Lock

That cell is 20Ah but 2mohm? That is worse than the 20Ah A123 pouches at 1.2mohm, and worse than 5ah nano-techs at 0.8mohm.

[Lock]

That cell is 20Ah but 2mohm? That is worse than the 20Ah A123 pouches at 1.2mohm, and worse than 5ah nano-techs at 0.8mohm.

Not expecting them to be the best-est... just the cheapest... They're planning on buying 1,000 tons of Altaire nano lithium titanate per year. Mostly they're putting them in battery-electric buses.

Lock

[MitchJi]

Hi Doc,

1.5v nominal but what's the ah?

Roughly what's the price?

When do you plan to start selling them to ES members ?

[Arlo1]

Hmmm.

[GGoodrum]

The white paper has some interesting info, especially the discussion about the discussion of aqueous vs non-aqueous electrolytes:

Aqueous systems like VRLA and NiCad are charged about 100 mV above the open circuit voltage of
the cell.  The electrochemistry in these systems is largely regulated by side reactions involving water.  
These systems can typically tolerate moderate levels of overcharging.   The excess charge current
is consumed by the above mentioned side reactions.  Lithium systems are not aqueous and
the side reactions are absent.  All of the applied charge is going to charge the batteries, therefore
the charging is efficient.  However, it lacks the regulating mechanism supplied by the side
reactions, and must be provided electronically.  The variation of state of charge among the cells in
a battery pack can affect the battery discharge capacity.  It is essential to keep the cell voltages
close to each other.  Also, one needs to avoid overcharging the cell.  The external cell balancing
function will bring the voltage of the cells close to each other. 

 

What I didn't get out of this was whether the LTO's lower voltage means it could use aqueous-type electrolytes? If so, would that mean they would have the slight overcharge absorption capability? That would mean no cell balancing is required.

-- Gary

[Alan B]

They can't use water with lithium as I understand it. But at this low voltage the electrolyte breakdown which is a problem at 4.2V will not be a problem and very long cell life should result. Like LiFePO4 but even longer.

A 1.5V rechargeable lithium AA/C/D cell might have uses in many places. Bye bye NiMH.

[GGoodrum]

They can't use water with lithium as I understand it. But at this low voltage the electrolyte breakdown which is a problem at 4.2V will not be a problem and very long cell life should result. Like LiFePO4 but even longer.

A 1.5V rechargeable lithium AA/C/D cell might have uses in many places. Bye bye NiMH.

Right! Lithium and water don't mix well.

I also agree that this could revolutionize the rechargeable small battery market. They would essentially last the life of a product, for sure. The problem for the battery guys is there's no resales if they last so long.

-- Gary

[Alan B]

Maybe enough overdischarge damaged cells to keep resale up, and all those things sold w/o batteries need them!

[sangesf]

How would you get 100 samples?
Are they very low mAH?

[liveforphysics]

How would you get 100 samples?
Are they very low mAH?

They will have roughly the same amp hour capacity per unit volume as LiFe. Just a much lower voltage per cell.

The Titanate cells I've got (Toshiba) seem to have an equal or higher C-rate for charge as discharge. Seem to be designed around charging as the key function above discharge and energy storage both.

[Alan B]

Not too surprising. Just because folks want 5 minute battery charging, they don't generally expect to run them down in that short a time frame. At least most folks don't.

[Doctorbass]

GOT THEM!!!!

I was a bit anxious because i wanna be sure we both understand correctly about the LTO cells.. and i wanted to be sure it's the 1.8V cells that charge at 15C... not the C-LiFePO4.

nad i tested a sample cell and measured 1.87V !!!

Fantastic!.. they are so light for a 18650!!!

Manufactured 17 may 2011 !!!!

Btw.. I found some more interesting info about them:

http://www.theeestory.com/files/1291216405JBBQGb.pdf

http://www.emc-mec.ca/phev/Presentation ... Zaghib.pdf

37g each cells!



Doc

[liveforphysics]

Looks like you've got enough to make a 4Ah 40v pack.


Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 160watt-hours of cells coming in at 3.8kg? So, 24kg per kw-hr?

[wojtek]

if anyone could get hold of those cells...
http://sionpower.com/vehicles.html

that is my ex-secret dream!

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Looks like you've got enough to make a 4Ah 40v pack.


Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 160watt-hours of cells coming in at 3.8kg? So, 24kg per kw-hr?

if it really comes in at 42 Wh/kg (0.15MJ/kg) that's lead-acid territory.
at least as far as specific energy is concerned.
tho i'm sur the power density & lifespan will make it worthwhile in a number of apps.

bye bye NiCd maybe, but then it was bye bye already.

[MitchJi]

Hi Doc,

GOT THEM!!!!

Manufactured 17 may 2011 !!!!

How much did they cost and can the rest of us buy them?

if anyone could get hold of those cells...
http://sionpower.com/vehicles.html

that is my ex-secret dream!

We achieved 250 Wh/Kg and over 300 full depth of discharge cycles.

My dream cells would have a better cycle life!