Upgrade brakes and running shifter cable under Tongsheng mid drive motor

[scrolltonowhere]

I'm getting my bike ready to convert to an electric. I'd been trying to fix it up before putting in the motor and am still waiting on the battery to arrive. When I was riding it as a regular bike, there had been some issues with the gears slipping. I went to a bike co-op and measured the chain realizing that it had been stretched. So now new chain but still same gear slipping. I'm trying to cross off all the possibilities before I put in the Tongsheng motor, I guess I could also do this while it's on. But I have a picture of the cogs here. I just wanted to see if anyone thinks these teeth are worn and need to be replaced. Also, what do people typically do with the shifters for the front gears on electric conversions? Just remove the shifter altogether or keep it on there?

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[amberwolf]

If you're getting the chain slipping from tooth to tooth on the same sprocket, with a new chain, it's likely that the sprockets are worn along with the old chain; generally you should change chain and sprockets together (both front *and* rear).

Usually this happens more on the smaller sprockets than the larger ones. Does it happen identically across all sprockets?

If it's not sprocket wear, it can be chain tension; there's usually a tension adjustment screw on the derailer, probably near the limit screws or at the back of the derailer.

If you're getting the chain slipping from sprocket to sprocket, then the derailer is misaligned and needs to be adjusted (probably at the shifter, or the shifter is worn out or damaged). Can also be the jockeywheel cage is bent.

The bike co-op should have people there that understand the drive system well enough to teach you how to test and adjust everything, but you may have to take the bike there and ask them to do so.


Assuming a middrive (TSDZ2, etc), then as for the front shifter--if you're not going to use it, you could remove it. It might have to be removed anyway if it is in the way of the drive installation, or if the new chainrings for the drive are spaced away from the frame differently than the originals.

If it's a hubmotor drive (if Tongsheng makes one), there's no reason to remove it; you may still need those gears for pedalling.

[Chalo]

Those sprockets are worn. You can tell by the upset material (burrs) on the edges of the faces the chain pulls against.

If you're installing a mid drive, for sure start with a fresh cassette and a new chain. They're cheap.

I'd use this cassette if I were you:
https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/produc ... -m200-6765

It has lower low gears than what you've had on there, it is compatible with the derailleur you have, and it lacks the 11 tooth small sprocket most cassettes use that causes the fastest chain wear.

[scrolltonowhere]

Thanks @chalo for the recommendation. I asked the volunteer at the co-op but he seemed to think it was ok. He is very hands off and just said there are a lot of reasons for a chain to slip and fall to the next cog. I had the derailleur set up after much trial and error. I tried messing with the barrel adjuster but just couldn't get it right. If you're sure those are worn, I'll definitely order a new cassette.

[E-HP]

Thanks @chalo for the recommendation. I asked the volunteer at the co-op but he seemed to think it was ok. He is very hands off and just said there are a lot of reasons for a chain to slip and fall to the next cog. I had the derailleur set up after much trial and error. I tried messing with the barrel adjuster but just couldn't get it right. If you're sure those are worn, I'll definitely order a new cassette.

How are your chainrings? If any of the three components are worn, they will lead to the other two wearing out prematurely.

[scrolltonowhere]

I was told that these were ok as well. I thought they were the reason they led to the slipping. But the volunteer at the co-op thought that the misaligned teeth were by design.

On another note, getting out that crank was way trickier than I imagined.

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[amberwolf]

If the chain and the rear sprockets are worn, so are the front ones. Not replacing them will wear your new chain and that will then do the same to the rear sprockets.

Are you going to be using a middrive? (TSDZ2, etc) If so, you're probably going to lose the cranks and chainrings you have now anyway.


Are you going to be using a hubmotor? (assuming TongSheng makes one) If so, you're probably going to be changing the rear cluster anyway, or using the one that comes on the hubmotor (if it does).

Telling us what specific system you're going to use will help us help you figure out what parts you really need to change (and which would be wasted money).

[Chalo]

Those are also significantly worn. When you look at the gullet between teeth, if the slope is noticeably different one side vs. the other, that's tooth wear.

[scrolltonowhere]

So after I put on the new chain I only rode it twice for about 4 miles. I'm guessing that's not enough to stretch out the new chain.

I'm going to buy a new cassette. I'm curious why this Soma one is preferred.

Also I have a Tongsheng TSDZ2 36v mid motor kit.

[scrolltonowhere]

Unrelated but this trek 730 singletrack from the 90s that .converting has cantilever brakes. I ordered some Kool stop brakes after reading the hype. Hopefully they perform as well as people say they do.

Im going to be doing city riding with the bike. I'm guessing they'll suffice. I'm curious about disc brakes and how much more responsive they are. ALL my bikes I've owned have all been 80s-90s cantilever rim brakes. If they're significantly better is it possible to convert. And if so the better question would be is it worth the effort?

[Chalo]

Disc brakes can be better or a lot worse than decent rim brakes. You can convert, but it only makes sense if your frame has disc brake mounting tabs already.

Rim brakes are sensitive to setup, while disc brakes are more sensitive to contamination (and leakage, in the case of hydraulics). You can definitely get all the stopping power you can use from rim brakes.

[scrolltonowhere]

Thanks Chalo for all your advice. I ordered the new cassette. I can't wait to actually get this bike up and running with the electric motor.

[scrolltonowhere]

I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for this next question but thought I'll keep it here. The questions are about

1. changing grip shifters to click shifters (or other)
2. changing the handlebars for a more upright position - questions about changing how the bike handles

So if I change out the handlebar(s), I think getting a different shifter would be preferable for the Trek. I'd definitely keep the shifters on the tube as they are now on the Peugeot. I have two bikes that I've considered changing for a more upright position. One is a Trek 730 the other a Peugeot 80s road bike. I decided to convert the Trek to an electric bike over the Peugeot since the Peugeot is so light and I'd like it to stay that way.

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Right now they both handle really well. I'm worried that if I change the handlebars out that it'll make the handling worse.
I would preferably like to go for something with a little rise and sweep. The potential issue with the Peugeot is that I believe it may have the French measurements on the stem which I think is 22mm. I can't confirm this though.

If anyone has any expertise or opinions I'd be happy to hear them.

[Chalo]

So if I change out the handlebar(s), I think getting a different shifter would be preferable for the Trek. I'd definitely keep the shifters on the tube as they are now on the Peugeot.

How do you propose to do that?

Stem shifters would be an easy retrofit, downtube shifters not at all.

I decided to convert the Trek to an electric bike over the Peugeot since the Peugeot is so light and I'd like it to stay that way.

Have you weighed them to confirm your impression?

[scrolltonowhere]

Just picking up the bikes it's very clear the Peugeot is much lighter. I have to lug them up stairs every time I ride. The tubing is incredibly light with the Peugeot's Reynolds 501 chromoly. I also put panaracer tires which are much lighter than the Scwalbe Marathon tires I just put on the trek.

I figured if I'm perhaps going a little faster it would be better if the bike I convert has wider tires.

[calab]

It is all just a balance, because what you ride determines how wide the tires are. I am used to mountain bike tires, but I dont mind the 700x40c tire, my frame looks like it could take more. Coming from a fat bike previously, the ride feel was a bit wonky, totally different feels you get through the wheels, frame and hence seat to your senses.

Just picking up the bikes it's very clear the Peugeot is much lighter. I have to lug them up stairs every time I ride. The tubing is incredibly light with the Peugeot's Reynolds 501 chromoly. I also put panaracer tires which are much lighter than the Scwalbe Marathon tires I just put on the trek.

I figured if I'm perhaps going a little faster it would be better if the bike I convert has wider tires.

[scrolltonowhere]

So as I wait for my new cassette to arrive I was putting on my new brakes. There was a little squeaking with the old ones but they looked really old. So I cleaned up the rims really well. As I was cleaning, I noticed the rims have a sort of concave groove in them unlike my other bike which is a little more flat and I want to say almost convex. It's not an entirely dramatic hole, but it seems like there may be an issue with the entire brake pad from making contact with the rim. I was wondering if the previous owner just slowly carved out a groove into the rim or was it designed this way? Do you see this as being an issue? I'm guessing it's only an issue if I'm unable to brake well.

[amberwolf]

Can you provide a picture? It sounds like wear from the pads. If it's a rim with a circumferential groove in the braking surface, then as long as the groove is still visible the rim can still be used, but the shallower it gets as the rim surface wears down, the less structure there is to keep the tire bead on (especially at high inflation pressures).

The braking surfaces on a rim should be flat, not concave or convex, to match the flat braking surfaces of the pads.

new pads will bed into whatever rims they're mated to, but it will take time and riding / braking to do this, and they won't have as much braking power until they are fully bedded in because not all of their surfaces are mating together and creating friction.

[scrolltonowhere]

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[Chalo]

The braking surfaces on a rim should be flat, not concave or convex, to match the flat braking surfaces of the pads.

Some rims are made with concave brake tracks. Araya and Campagnolo both made multiple models like that.

[larsb]

The rims don’t look too bad. I used to run my rims until they exploded and that’s not even close
You’ll start noticing when they get so worn that they bulge outwards from the tire pressure. Then it’s time to retire them

[amberwolf]

Interesting. I've never seen any, but I haven't had the widest exposure to worldwide stuff, or anything high-end. The one set of Araya rims I have are flat-machined on an old Nishiki, I think it is.

Is there a specific reason for doing it that way? (which I would expect to require the brake pads to take a lot longer to bed in and brake fully?)

Some rims are made with concave brake tracks. Araya and Campagnolo both made multiple models like that.

[Chalo]

Is there a specific reason for doing it that way? (which I would expect to require the brake pads to take a lot longer to bed in and brake fully?)

Some rims are made with concave brake tracks. Araya and Campagnolo both made multiple models like that.

Some brakes' pads swing more or less straight in, some sweep upwards, and some sweep downwards. A concave brake track offers easier setup for a range of brake types, with the ability to land the pad perpendicular to the rim.

Here's a picture of Araya RM-17, showing the curved sidewall:

[scrolltonowhere]

Ok great now that I know the rims are good and the new cassette is installed it's onto the next hurdle.

So I was trying to install the tsdrz2 motor but there's a little extra something that is blocking the motor from going in. If I insert it on the opposite side it'll go through quite a ways further. From the photo the part inside the BB with the circles is lower than the front part where I insert it. I've seen people have used a dremel to sand down parts to get their motor through. I'm not a handy person but am trying to learn. I'm assuming the threads will be worked through as well if I do this.

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Additionally, the plastic case where the gear shifter is running through is going to block the motor. The screw is on there really good and it looks a little stripped. I'm not sure how this is going to work. I guess I'll try to get this out at all means necessary.

Also, I was wondering how these teeth look on my derailleur?

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[scrolltonowhere]

Alright great news for me! I was able to drill through the screw holding the plastic piece down for the brakes and removed the brake wire. Before I know it, this is going to be a completely new bike.

Also, I figured out that there was a piece of plastic that broke off in the bb when I removed the crank. I was able to just chip away at it with a hammer and screwdriver. What a relief.

I have to vent about my own stupid mistakes. I put one of the levers on incorrectly and now I can't get it off. I guess I have to find a lever extractor. Please don't laugh. I already beat myself up about this mistake pretty bad. But I feel like it's not just the stupid mistakes you make, it's how you recover.

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Does anyone know from looking at the photos if my derailleur needs to be replaced?