Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
- LockH 100 GW
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
^^ Hehe... "The problem with using electricity to create hydrogen from water is that it uses electricity. " Got plenty of water... plenty of cheap electricity via solar cells... and chemical cells as batterys never wear out... ermmm... ooops.
OTOH, hydrogen stored in tanks is cheap to make, renewable, and the tanks never wear out, etc etc etc...
OTOH, hydrogen stored in tanks is cheap to make, renewable, and the tanks never wear out, etc etc etc...
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Tanks do wear out--every time they are pressurised, they are stressed. As pressure decreases, teh stresses change, reduce, etc. Then they are repressurized, etc. Cycling eventually causes stress fractures, which eventually can crack all the way thru.
Similarly, chemical generation units (fuel cells, etc) do wear out--sometimes it's from physical damage like the above, sometimes its' from impurities in either the original construction or in the materials passing thru it that then react with other things and cause increasing defects over time.
Similarly, chemical generation units (fuel cells, etc) do wear out--sometimes it's from physical damage like the above, sometimes its' from impurities in either the original construction or in the materials passing thru it that then react with other things and cause increasing defects over time.
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
As mentioned above, tanks do wear out - and hydrogen has an additional problem with being stored in them, because it causes hydrogen embrittlement of common tank materials (steel, aluminum etc.) You can coat them, of course, but that presents additional problems.
That's not to say it can't be done, of course. But the statement "hey, just put it in a tank; it's easy and cheap!" isn't even close to being true.
--bill von
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Always look at the worst scenario... then imagine it ten times worse.
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Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
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Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions
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Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
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Joined yer local chapter of EA yet?
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
The plants I work at have neutron flux detectors that slowly turn to gold.
But they start out as Platinum....
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Context is important. Battery-powered EVs are plenty useful given the weight / capacity / range. Same is not true when it comes to flying machines - they're constrained by weight, use more energy, so current battery tech isn't practical for their use. Electrical drivetrains have obvious benefits though, including in flying machines. So currently the only solution that comes to mind is chemical fuel consumed to generate electricity. What fuel, and how consumed is up to you. Hydrogen, methane, propane can be produced using electricity and be carbon neutral.billvon wrote: ↑Jan 25 2019 4:43pmRight. But that's like saying I have an awesome method to create gold out of almost nothing! I'll be a millionaire, right? To create a gram of gold, I just start with three grams of diamonds and . . .
The problem with using electricity to create hydrogen from water is that it uses electricity. And you'd be a lot better off using that electricity to just charge that EV in the first place. Converting it to hydrogen, storing it, transporting it, compressing it and then using it to power a fuel cell means you get about 1/3 of the energy you put in to making it.
- TheBeastie 10 MW
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
I assume everyone's seen this video of the 2-hour flying Hydrogen Fuel Cell drone, if not check it again here. There are bigger models out there that can fly for 4-hours straight on YouTube but these Intelligent Energy kits seem to be aimed the major more practical needs in the drone/quadcopter market, I think Intelligent Energy is aiming for what most people need more than ultra-extreme long distant flight applications.
Of course, none of this stuff is for kids as toys, this is expensive serious business stuff.
This video has a tiny amount of views for how cool it is, I think there are just too many arseholes out there that never click on the Like button on good videos.
https://youtu.be/AHlrLU7kTys
Of course, none of this stuff is for kids as toys, this is expensive serious business stuff.
This video has a tiny amount of views for how cool it is, I think there are just too many arseholes out there that never click on the Like button on good videos.
https://youtu.be/AHlrLU7kTys
Last edited by TheBeastie on Feb 19 2019 2:45am, edited 2 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Or, like me, they have a look and think, "yeah, whatever".TheBeastie wrote: ↑Feb 19 2019 2:37amThis video has a tiny amount of views for how cool it is, I think there are just too many arseholes out there that never click on the Like button on good videos.
I might change my mind about multirotors being fairly lame if we get some low budget, high value assassinations using them.
But I think they're fairly lame.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Am I the only one thinking a 650w fuel cell would be a significant range extender on an ebike?
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
It seems like 650W would have many practical applications. Any idea on the cost ? Also do they have a way to produce / store hydrogen, or the expectation is you'd take those cylinders elsewhere for filling ?
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
They make a 800W version of the fuel cell, but their website does not show any pricing.
I would imagine you could refill the H2 tank where they refill fuel cell cars.Maximum continuous power 800W
Maximum peak power 1400W
Output voltage 19.6V to 25.2V
Fuel Cell Power Module Dimensions 196 × 100 × 140mm
Mass 930g
Hydrogen Regulator Mass 250g
Maximum regulator (cylinder) pressure 300 Bar/4350 PSI
Output pressure 0.5 Bar ± 0.25 Bar/7 PSI ± 3 PSI
PRV set pressure 2 Bar/29 PSI
Burst disc set pressure 450 Bar/6500 PSI
Maximum cylinder mass 10kg
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.
Commercial drones where time=money definitely make a several thousand dollar investment pay off quickly if they bid by the job rather than charge by the hour.
Commercial drones where time=money definitely make a several thousand dollar investment pay off quickly if they bid by the job rather than charge by the hour.
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
This is relevantAmpEater wrote: ↑Oct 05 2010 7:48am
Edit - I assumed you were talking human-size quadcopters. RC scale has been done 1000 times by now, even open source projects with hardware available. That doesn't keep me from wanting one, of course. I have a thermal camera that would be awesome to get airborne, but is outside the payload of most smaller quads.
viewtopic.php?t=99409
Best Wishes!
Mitch
The best quality batteries and lowest priced batteries for DIY EV's are tier 1 OEM Quality Cells from salvaged (wrecked) EV packs. Three examples are Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model 3 packs.
Nissan Leaf Module specs are here
Chevy Volt Pack Info - Salvage 16kwh Packs Under $2k here
Mitch
The best quality batteries and lowest priced batteries for DIY EV's are tier 1 OEM Quality Cells from salvaged (wrecked) EV packs. Three examples are Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model 3 packs.
Nissan Leaf Module specs are here
Chevy Volt Pack Info - Salvage 16kwh Packs Under $2k here
- TheBeastie 10 MW
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Introducing the TF-19 Flamethrower Drone
Definitely looks like fun for the whole family
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07rtBip9ixk
Definitely looks like fun for the whole family
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07rtBip9ixk
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
- TheBeastie 10 MW
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- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
I find the possibilities of fuel-cells fascinating since finding Hydrogen Fuel Cell quadcopters/drones claims that can fly for up to 4-hours straight in perfect ideal conditions with a large tank and nothing to carry like a camera/weight etc.
With the "fuel-cell flying electric car" also supposedly on the way https://interestingengineering.com/look ... es-is-here
Here is a large all in one FAQ Hydrogen Fuel Cell quadcopters/drone YouTube video to answer all the questions, the most obvious is that it's expensive gear, only for professional industrial use only, but who knows what 10 years can do.
This Drone Will Fly For One Hour Using A Hydrogen Fuel Cell: Here's How! 12 FAQ's
https://youtu.be/szTVfkVrLLI
With the "fuel-cell flying electric car" also supposedly on the way https://interestingengineering.com/look ... es-is-here
Here is a large all in one FAQ Hydrogen Fuel Cell quadcopters/drone YouTube video to answer all the questions, the most obvious is that it's expensive gear, only for professional industrial use only, but who knows what 10 years can do.
This Drone Will Fly For One Hour Using A Hydrogen Fuel Cell: Here's How! 12 FAQ's
https://youtu.be/szTVfkVrLLI
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
- TheBeastie 10 MW
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- Joined: Jul 28 2012 12:31am
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Hyundai S-A1 Air Taxi.
Hyundai have a fair amount of fuel-cell EVs, so I wont be surprised that the finished product of their Air Taxi will be fuel-cell based as well.
If there was any group of people who should dubious of a miracle battery just around the corner its long-time ES forum dwellers viewtopic.php?f=14&t=57256
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6K7GAG1Aas
Hyundai have a fair amount of fuel-cell EVs, so I wont be surprised that the finished product of their Air Taxi will be fuel-cell based as well.
If there was any group of people who should dubious of a miracle battery just around the corner its long-time ES forum dwellers viewtopic.php?f=14&t=57256
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6K7GAG1Aas
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
didn't that frenchman just fly across the English channel with a backpack battery?TheBeastie wrote: ↑Jan 08 2020 1:16amHyundai S-A1 Air Taxi.
Hyundai have a fair amount of fuel-cell EVs, so I wont be surprised that the finished product of their Air Taxi will be fuel-cell based as well.
If there was any group of people who should dubious of a miracle battery just around the corner its long-time ES forum dwellers viewtopic.php?f=14&t=57256
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6K7GAG1Aas
30Q test viewtopic.php?f=14&t=108547
40T test viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106550
Sony VTC6 viewtopic.php?f=14&t=108661
Desulfate 30Q, 40T, VTC6, P42a viewtopic.php?f=14&t=109601
Battery magnets viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106190&hilit=magne ... 5#p1563730
40T test viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106550
Sony VTC6 viewtopic.php?f=14&t=108661
Desulfate 30Q, 40T, VTC6, P42a viewtopic.php?f=14&t=109601
Battery magnets viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106190&hilit=magne ... 5#p1563730
-
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
No !
A French inventor has crossed the English Channel on a jet-powered hoverboard.
Franky Zapata's hoverboard is powered by kerosene which he carries in a backpack.
He took off from Sangatte near Calais and reached Dover in just over 20 minutes – but he had to stop for fuel.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
id like to see a vante black graphene solar hanglider with a little electric motor on it
30Q test viewtopic.php?f=14&t=108547
40T test viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106550
Sony VTC6 viewtopic.php?f=14&t=108661
Desulfate 30Q, 40T, VTC6, P42a viewtopic.php?f=14&t=109601
Battery magnets viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106190&hilit=magne ... 5#p1563730
40T test viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106550
Sony VTC6 viewtopic.php?f=14&t=108661
Desulfate 30Q, 40T, VTC6, P42a viewtopic.php?f=14&t=109601
Battery magnets viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106190&hilit=magne ... 5#p1563730
- TheBeastie 10 MW
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- Joined: Jul 28 2012 12:31am
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Never seen these in before, now there are Drone and Plane ALL-IN-ONE.
Can do VTOL style flight because the motors can turn from vertical to a horizontal direction for more distance flights.
https://youtu.be/OOTacas2Iog
Can do VTOL style flight because the motors can turn from vertical to a horizontal direction for more distance flights.
https://youtu.be/OOTacas2Iog
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
- TheBeastie 10 MW
- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Jul 28 2012 12:31am
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
In China, its routine to remove debris from powerlines using flamethrower quadcopters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOqWfLZT8OM
[youtube]iOqWfLZT8OM[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOqWfLZT8OM
[youtube]iOqWfLZT8OM[/youtube]
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
-
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- Joined: Aug 03 2010 10:33pm
- Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
why am i thinking ..”when riot control gets serious...”..??TheBeastie wrote: ↑Mar 22 2020 11:47pmIn China, its routine to remove debris from powerlines using flamethrower quadcopters
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca
- OneBadWolf 10 mW
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Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/air-force-new-flying-car
I was a pilot, I've flow a few different types, from single seat piston powered aerobatic aircraft, one of which owned for 18 years to agplanes to turboprops and even some heavy metal. Mostly blue collar flying, although I was also an Aviation Safety Officer, and worked as a AME, although I did not hold a certificate, and my work had to be signed off by a licence holder. Except on my own aircraft, which I was authorized to conduct all inspections and maintenance on. I also did a little test flying, originally as a way of getting experience in different types, by being available to take a plane up after maintenance. Mostly for free.
I have never liked fly by wire, and although I appreciate technology and automation, I think the human is still needed in the cockpit. The way the multi rotor abomination in the link above manages, to fly with margin of safety, is that the computers can dynamically reconfigure the machine if it experiences a motor failure or two.
I noticed at the beginning of this thread, a certain amount of doubt as to the likelihood of man carrying multi rotor vehicles, and had to throw up the above article. Today, they are a novelty, like the first airplanes were. They won't stay that way. BTW, the Sovs had the best hydrogen cell tech. we are only now beginning to catch up. I expect to see wonders. But then I read this....
"Matt Chasen, founder and CEO of LIFT Aircraft told Avionics International. “We will soon launch the first consumer flying experience - where anyone can fly with one hour of training, no pilots license required for less than $250 per flight.”
The Horror. The Horror.
I was a pilot, I've flow a few different types, from single seat piston powered aerobatic aircraft, one of which owned for 18 years to agplanes to turboprops and even some heavy metal. Mostly blue collar flying, although I was also an Aviation Safety Officer, and worked as a AME, although I did not hold a certificate, and my work had to be signed off by a licence holder. Except on my own aircraft, which I was authorized to conduct all inspections and maintenance on. I also did a little test flying, originally as a way of getting experience in different types, by being available to take a plane up after maintenance. Mostly for free.
I have never liked fly by wire, and although I appreciate technology and automation, I think the human is still needed in the cockpit. The way the multi rotor abomination in the link above manages, to fly with margin of safety, is that the computers can dynamically reconfigure the machine if it experiences a motor failure or two.
I noticed at the beginning of this thread, a certain amount of doubt as to the likelihood of man carrying multi rotor vehicles, and had to throw up the above article. Today, they are a novelty, like the first airplanes were. They won't stay that way. BTW, the Sovs had the best hydrogen cell tech. we are only now beginning to catch up. I expect to see wonders. But then I read this....
"Matt Chasen, founder and CEO of LIFT Aircraft told Avionics International. “We will soon launch the first consumer flying experience - where anyone can fly with one hour of training, no pilots license required for less than $250 per flight.”
The Horror. The Horror.
- TheBeastie 10 MW
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- Location: Melbourne Australia
Re: Elephant in the room - Quadcopters...
Something new in drones/quadcopters, at least as far as I have noticed...
Amazon's new Ring camera is actually a flying drone -- for inside your home
Ring announces the $250 Always Home Cam indoor drone and plans for end-to-end encryption.
https://youtu.be/4dmrrBIk6jc
[youtube]4dmrrBIk6jc[/youtube]
I think these kinds of robot security devices are going to take at least a small bite out of human security guard jobs in a few years time.
For most security guards it's illegal to touch anyone, therefor the best thing authorities can ask for is high quality video evidence of illegal activity, which robotic security devices should be able to deliver quite well.
Amazon's new Ring camera is actually a flying drone -- for inside your home
Ring announces the $250 Always Home Cam indoor drone and plans for end-to-end encryption.
https://youtu.be/4dmrrBIk6jc
[youtube]4dmrrBIk6jc[/youtube]
I think these kinds of robot security devices are going to take at least a small bite out of human security guard jobs in a few years time.
For most security guards it's illegal to touch anyone, therefor the best thing authorities can ask for is high quality video evidence of illegal activity, which robotic security devices should be able to deliver quite well.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39