Inverter recommendations? 48V sine wave, no grid tie

[spinningmagnets]

edit: I purchased a used 48V sine wave APC UPS, 3000W continuous, also...a pure sine wave 1500W continuous Meanwell TS-1500-148A

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So far I have brand names of...
Aims
Xantrex
Samlex
Meanwell

There is a youtube video that persuaded me that I would need a 1500W-rated unit to run a full-sized home refrigerator, due to a high start-up surge. During a temporary power outage, I might only need 1000W more to run TV, a couple lights, and keeping the laptops charged up.

All recommendations considered. I have cash to spend, please help me avoid a huge mistake...

I will NOT be running an AC unit with this...

[amberwolf]

afaiui, for the fridge you also need to get one that can handle the inductive load of the motor; sorry i don't know which would work best for that. an ac unit and a fridge are basically the same as far as operation goes, except the fridge probably takes less power.

i do know some people have tried don't handle motor loads very well, and either shutdown or blow up. i did that to a jensen small inverter some years back trying to run a small motor wihtout a load for an experiment.

i picked up a harbor freigth unit on clearance specifically because there are people using this specific one for power tools, etc. i forget the model, but somewhere in the forsale used section i have an ad for it that has that info; never did find a buyer though. i want to try it out on a little window ac unit so i can run that on battery on a dog trailer for summer use if i ever need to take one or more of them somewhere when it's really really hot, but havne't got around to that yet.

[cooking monkey]

Damn, you had to want 48 volts! if you ever want recommendations on 12 volts let me know. I kid you not I must own a couple dozen inverters of all types, high freq, low freq, mod, sine, split phase, single phase, Run my whole house off one including welding equipment, but all my experience is with 12 volts so I cant offer any help on 48 volt units.

[spinningmagnets]

Even though yours are all 12V, could you please tell everyone what your 12V advice is, since it sounds like you have a lot of experience...

I may even get at least one 12V inverter as a backup...

[cooking monkey]

First, believe nothing, not you tube reviews, not manufacture specs, nothing, they all lie. Brand names don't mean anything anymore. I don't believe there are any good brand names, I have only found some good models amunst the dogs.
I am not gental with equipment, I use them hard. I have gone to high freq units for everything 120 volt only, trucks and home. The split phase, and low freq units I have found (while still good units) just have too much self consumption for my liking, and greatly more with split phase if the legs (loads) arnt balanced.

Self consumption is very important, especially for a house where the inverter runs 24/7. I personally look for a inverter, if sine wave to consume less than 1 maybe 1.5 amps tops, so that's 1.5x 12.5 volts= 19 watts. In a day that's 456 watthrs just to run the inverter.

If a mod sine inverter I want to see half that, around .6 amps .6x 12.5 = 7.5 watts x 24hrs = 180 watthrs.

I will give you one model of sinewave that I used for 5 years that is first class, then two models of mod sine that are also first class, one a little better than the other, and then just because I cant believe its still on the market I will tell you what I think is the worst built sine wave inverter I have ever owned and been into, and they are still selling this POS by the container loads! But Rain is in the forcast, and I have to get the lawns mowed right now, so I will have to continue later...

[cooking monkey]

This unit is a outstanding high freq sinewave unit. Made in a couple different configuration, but if it has the yellow face its a good one. https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-Technolo ... JC0KGJPZP4
Ran my house for years on one, fridge, freezers, pressure pump, everything, just sometimes if the fridge, freezer, pressure pump was on and if I then turned on the microwave that would be to much for it and I would have to reset it, but a great quality inverter, with a self consumption that matched a mod sine unit down somewhere around .6 of a amp (@12 volts) Just a outstanding inverter.

The inverter I have currently been running the house with is https://www.donrowe.com/Xantrex-813-500 ... 000-ul.htm
This inverter beats most every sinewave inverter (its a mod sine) I have used. Internal build quality is outstanding, repairable, gate lead protection on the fets so your less likely to have a fet failure that takes out the drive ccts. Hackable as well, for example my batteries are shot, I need a new bank bad, there so bad they cant source the amps needed to start my fridge or freezer, I went into the H bridge section of this inverter and added something like 12000uf to what ever it was that the h bridge had, and now no problems, I can limp along until winter when I will buy new batts.( basically storing power in caps at 160+ volts for greater motor starting ability)

test fitting a new h bridge buss cap.jpg (435.09 KiB) Viewed 5233 times

ignore the blue cap, I was just testing to see if there was room inside to fit it.12 boost transformers in this unit, look at the room inside, nothing crowded, great layout. I welded with this inverter running both a miller Maxstar 150, and 200 model, for the last 3 years while it ran the house, though I was told that the lights in the house did dim when I would strike up a rod, but that's a pretty minor complaint.

[cooking monkey]

In the almost as good category is the smaller unit of the above.(mod sine) https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-813-3000 ... op?ie=UTF8

Much lighter but still packs a punch. No meters on it, kind of plain jane but its a solid work horse, tested it on my house for about 6 months, no problems but its now used for hooking up to my truck when I go down cut lines to buck up firewood with my electric chain saw.

[cooking monkey]

In the category of the worst built, worst operating pure sine unit I ever bought, used, or have seen is this POS. I wouldn't send it back to them for a refund because I wanted to own a example of the worst built (imho) sinewave inverter.

pure junk.jpg (24.64 KiB) Viewed 5223 times

https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt- ... &s=gateway

There policy is if anyone makes a stink about it they just ask for it back and will give you a refund. In fact they actually build it so you cant easily get the cover off to look inside. I did and its so bad, you will see right away what they are trying to hide. This unit is only suitable to run light bulbs imho. Even if you get a properly working unit, and that will be by chance, you have bought a hand grenade with pin pulled.

[spinningmagnets]

Thanks for the info! I think a lot of people will find that data useful...

If nobody has a strong warning against this, or a strong recommendation for something else, I am likely to order the Meanwell

TS-1500-148A (TS=true sine wave, 1500W, 1=120VAC output, 48=48V input-63V max, A=USA sockets

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-TS-1 ... SwBahVdLJt

[billvon]

On the cheap side I have used Cotek and AIMS with some success.

On the high end I have used a lot of Outback products and they are pricey but absolutely bulletproof.

[fechter]

I have a 600W Meanwell and it's been very good so far. I haven't tried abusing it though. It has very low standby drain when the load is off. A sine wave output should play nice with induction motors.

[spinningmagnets]

Occasionally my life conditions have forced me to purchase "affordable" products. That being said...during those times when I have been doing well, I have never regretted buying a high-quality name-brand product.

The "Outback" brand recommendation is a new one to me, and I will remember it. Samlex and Xantrex are both a little pricey, but they seem to have a high satisfaction rating (I read a lot. that alone is not proof, but it's the best I can do). Aims is everywhere in the spread of comparisons and recommendations. They have a spotty record, but if millions have been sold, then me finding a dozen unhappy customers may still be a "less than 1%" failure rate.

With any product, its better to buy from a local dealer (within an hours drive) with a reputation for standing behind his warranty. If they replace bad units (and any brand can have the occasional lemon), then they will be diligent at avoiding crap brands or crap models.

The Meanwell that is performance-rated the same as the Samlex/Xantrex/Outback models is more affordable, which is a plus. However, the deciding factor for me has been the deep experience on ES with authentic Meanwells as chargers. They appear to be robust and made from efficient components (low heat per output watt, low standby drain-current). The others seem to have an easier-to-use interface, which is a hallmark of products that appeal to the broad retail market. The Meanwell guts seem to be repairable and upgradable.

I plan to get the "TS" model, but for the general info, the "TM" model is about $50 more for the integrated "UPS mode". This means you can plug in your mains power to the Meanwell, and the current will "pass through" to your components (TV, lights, etc), and if power goes down during a storm, it automatically switches over to drawing power from the battery (my 52V ebike batteries).

The documentation "sounded like" it also has a charger (adjustable to 4.1V per cell) to keep the battery charged up when the mains are working, but don't count on that...

If power goes out here in Kansas (which happens, but rarely), I will pull out a dolly from the closet that has the inverter and battery on it. I would rather have two 1500W inverters, instead of one 3000W inverter. A single 3000W+ unit would be typical for an RV, Cabin, sailboat, etc...which is a full-time system with no mains power.

[TPA]

I want to offer a suggestion from some research I've done myself, but I must mention that I have not used this product and cannot vouch for build quality or reliability. It gets good reviews everywhere I look at it, and seems like the best value for an inverter on the market.

https://www.thesolarbiz.com/schneider-c ... arger.html

24v input split phase 40A output. I think it's 3400-3600W continuous output. It has a lot of configuration flexibility.

Schneider is the current owner of the Xantrex product line. I like this inverter because it is capable of split phase, and it could theoretically wire right into your house and supply low power appliances (a stove burner if you needed to). I have a 240V soft start well pump and I am interested in it for that reason. Its size and weight seems to indicate that it may be a good build quality.

Schneider also makes a 48V version of this inverter for a couple hundred more bucks.

You will want to read up on them (pdfs in the specifications tab) because I think there may be a control unit and combox that could also required (or at least makes it much easier to use).

[Doctorbass]

The cheapest way to convert 48Vdc to kW of sine AC is to get used UPS !!!

I got a APC 5000VA ( 4300Watts) for 200$ no battery inside.

It work really well for the cost!!!

similar to this one.. but it output 208Vthat i converted to splitphase 120-120AC

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-electricite/lav ... cale=fr_CA

Doc

[spinningmagnets]

That is great advice, Doc. I haven't mentioned that I already purchased a very large 48V UPS that is verified to work with 14S ebike packs up to 58V, It originally used four lead-acid batteries, and when they wear out, the company will not let the customer replace the batteries (which is a very easy job, of course) and keep the UPS under warranty. These units are for maintaining 99.999% "uptime" on large server computers, and clients never want to be out of warranty because an electrical malfunction of any type can damage millions of dollars worth of computer equipment.

So, the UPS providers always want the clients to buy the newest model of UPS every two years or so. If you want to have them replace the four 12V lead-acids, they charge as much as a new installation of a UPS. They say it is because they need a technician to do the install if they are going to warranty it, but an "install" includes a plug for the mains power going in, and a system plug going out to the computers it is protecting. For those who are not familiar with an "Uninterrupted Power Supply / UPS", if the mains power goes down for a few minutes, or even a few hours, the UPS converts its battery power to 120VAC (or 240VAC in Australia), and it switches over to battery input automatically.

Update: I received my Meanwell, and so far it looks good. I simply wanted something smaller as a second inverter, but still just big enough to run my refrigerator.

Here is the UPS I bought as a used unit, and it has been verified to run 3000W continuous: SUA3000RMXL3U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTUZx1DX54&t=33s

[jonescg]

I've been impressed with the MPP Solar range of 48 V to 230 V inverters. They do solar input as well, up to 150 V DC (three 72 cell panels in series). Great value for money.

[Papa]

Way late to the party... I see.

I'm on a 48Vdc solar powered FLA bank on my RV.

Five 100W Grape PVs in series (115Vdc Voc) - Plan to parallel 5 more of same.

Victron 150-35 MPPT controller (150Vdc/35A). set to charge 48V FLA bank.
Victron Phoenix 1200-48 pure sine wave inverter (1200W/48Vdc).

The primary intent for the inverter, was to power a small 700W microwave or 1100W induction cooktop - which it does nicely . However, (out of curiosity), I discovered that the inverter will NOT power my Comfort Zone 120Vac 800W halogen radiant space heater.

[amberwolf]

Does it have a fan in it?

If so, there may be something in the motor type that has too large a spike at startup?

Or maybe it actually takes a lot more than 800w input to get the 800w output? (shouldn't, but....)

[Papa]

Yes, inverter has a small muffin fan, but is thermally controlled so it doesn't run on anything but extended, max amps. The space heater has two settings - 800W and 400W. The inverter doesn't like either.

[fechter]

With a resistive heater, the resistance is pretty low when it's cold so there will be an initial high current needed to get it glowing.

I got this one last year:

Img_1393.jpg (67.5 KiB) Viewed 3215 times

It's able to run my 1750w microwave oven or a 1500w electric heater. So far it has worked well.

Img_1395.jpg (61.11 KiB) Viewed 3215 times

[john61ct]

Magnum and Victron are the bomb at the high end, very reliable.

Avoid Magnum's CSW line just rebadged cheap Chinese crap, stupid move that

Vanner, MasterVolt, Sterling, Outback, ProMariner are also great.

Xantrex is good but terrible CS attitude.

Samlex and Tripplite solid middle ground, and I've heard Morningstar is good.

[spinningmagnets]

Just had this recommended to me over the $120 square-wave 150W EGO inverter, a generic sine wave 500W for $80

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Sine-Wave ... Sww9deE9yK

[John and Cecil]

i picked up a harbor freigth unit on clearance specifically because there are people using this specific one for power tools, etc. i forget the model, but somewhere in the forsale used section i have an ad for it that has that info; never did find a buyer though. i want to try it out on a little window ac unit so i can run that on battery on a dog trailer for summer use if i ever need to take one or more of them somewhere when it's really really hot, but havne't got around to that yet.

You can try evaporative cooling vests too. They work especially well when it is hot and there is some airflow (if the trailer is open with maybe a roof or awning above to block the sun. I had issues with Cecil when riding the motorcycle in temps between 80 and 110 degrees and no clouds (and no roof over him). Whenever we stopped at a light he would squirm around in his box from the heat. I started carrying a small cooler with very cold water and I bought him an evaporative cooling vest. You soak it with cold water and ring it out somewhat before putting it on him. It stays wet and cool for about 30-45 minutes and Cecil was always comfortable and never squirmed again. Every 45 minutes or so we pull over and I re-soaked the vest. We even got stuck in traffic in Los Angeles a few times and I just reached back over my head and slow poured a half pint or so of water on his vest and back while waiting on the highway. It really works great, the water evaporates over time and draws the hot air out of their body. I know it is warmer where you live and your dogs are much larger and have more fur, but perhaps it might work for them too. Perhaps you could hook up a water sprayer to soak their cooling vests while you ride too.

[amberwolf]

The problem with that is my dogs are large, thick-furred and shaggy and would overheat sitting there waiting in traffic for lights to change or being able to get thru a light (which in some places can take two or three or more cycles of the light because of inattentive drivers). There's usually no wind when sitting at these lights when it's hot, and it's much hotter than ambient because of the running car engines surrounding me at these lights.

When I had to take Tiny or Yogi with me to work a few years back, when >100F outside, it could be >120-130F sitting in the traffic. So despite having wet towels (which I had bottles of water with me to refresh as needed) secured as covers to most of the trailer's crate surface area, and a two-inch-thick styrofoam "roof" to keep direct sun off, *and* a little handpumped portable mister, they could get obviously overheated by the end of about 2.5 miles, even with pre-chilled waterfilled pads they'd be laying on, if we had to stop at more than one or two intersections, etc. Sometimes there was enough breeze for it to work ok...but anytime there wasnt', it could be bad, and usually I only need to take a dog somewhere in those kind of conditions if they're already under stress or sick or injured (normally I would just go when it was better for the dog, or not take them out at all in that kind of weather).

So whatever I use would have to be active cooling (like a DC-powered RV A/C unit, or window unit on an inverter) in a well-insulated mostly-enclosed space (just enough airflow to keep air breathable), because I can't depend on airflow at speed (20mph max) or actual wind to make evaporative cooling work (just heat-induced evaporation isn't enough).

[everythingisawave]

I think that a lot of older fridges and a/c units didn't have an inverter, so the problems you mention with inductive loading could lead to derating of portable inverters needing to supply reactive power. Newer units might work better?

I've seen some spot coolers on the market that consume less than 1kW, if they are inverter powered maybe this will work for your keeping your pups cool. Might need an extra battery though.