CA V3 display switching on its own

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zorbas   10 mW

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CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Aug 29 2021 10:07am

Hello Endless Sphere community.
I have successfully installed a GMAC 10T for a bit more than a year now (on my ICE Trike). However I have had an issue with the display of the CA since almost the beginning, and buying a new CA and MFswitch did'nt solve the issue.
My current set up is:
- GMAC 10T
- Baserunner L10
- CA V3 WP
- 48V Battery with high power cells (VTC6)
- normal PAS for a few weeks
- E-Rider 68 torque sensor after one or two months

Purely for information, I have had the same issues with the erider that some of you had. That is, no power detection, erratic negative measurements and sudden burst of power after big bumps. Besides that, the erider is very nice.

Everything is in the title of this topic. The display is going from on display to another without me touching the MFSwitch. I tried another switch and CA, and it didn't help. I tried removing other components like ebrake, throttle but no change either. It's really annoying and Grintech doesn't seem to have an answer for me.
Anyone had the same issue?

I remember using the setup without this issue for a few weeks. Grintech's guess was that it was related to some of the components interfering with the CA but I could't point the origin of the issue with removing all components. Last one I did'nt remove is the MfSwitch itself. I guess I cannot ride without it.
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 29 2021 12:39pm

I had to look up MFswitch :lol:
I guess with the Baserunner tuck away you need some way to turn it off and on. The screen scroll is a nice feature as well as incorporating a digital switch.

My trike does not have front suspension and have hit bumps so hard it had turned of my controller, sounds crazy but has happened a couple time in the last 2 years. I have a push button on the controller, can not imagine how that could happen.

I'm guessing here so stick with me. I wondering about the action of the buttons if soft enough that bumps or vibration could trip it.

Do you have direct steering and is your switch mounted on your steering?
Have suspension on the trike?

In stead of disconnecting the MFswitch unmount it from the steering and somehow support it as to isolate it from the vibration of the trike. does not do it sitting still does it? Then could be a bad connection.

I have a digital and analog switch from grin mounted on my steering have had no issues with them.
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zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Aug 29 2021 1:15pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Aug 29 2021 12:39pm
Do you have direct steering and is your switch mounted on your steering?
Have suspension on the trike?

In stead of disconnecting the MFswitch unmount it from the steering and somehow support it as to isolate it from the vibration of the trike. does not do it sitting still does it? Then could be a bad connection.
Nice trike ZeroEm. :thumb:
I have an ICE QNT modified with the rear of a more recent VTX.
I don't have suspension either but I already tried to attach the mfswitch in another place. I even tried with the switch in my hands. It doesn't solve the issue.
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 29 2021 1:19pm

I will keep thinking, Grin should come up with something if this is an issue.

You should post a pic of your trike.
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zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Aug 30 2021 5:54am

ZeroEm wrote:
Aug 29 2021 1:19pm
I will keep thinking, Grin should come up with something if this is an issue.

You should post a pic of your trike.
Thanks for looking at my issue already!
I will post my issue on the Cycle Analyst V3 topic and send a new mail to GrinTech.

As for my trike picture, I just found the topic where people show their build. I am plannin to share something there. Good idea :thumb:
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 30 2021 6:12am

by zorbas » Aug 30 2021 5:54am
ZeroEm wrote: ↑Aug 29 2021 1:19pm
I will keep thinking, Grin should come up with something if this is an issue.
You should post a pic of your trike.
Thanks for looking at my issue already!
I will post my issue on the Cycle Analyst V3 topic and send a new mail to GrinTech.

As for my trike picture, I just found the topic where people show their build. I am plannin to share something there. Good idea :thumb:
This site is about sharing information. If you have a problem with your setup, others may have the same issue. It's good to know what is causing it. I'm sure you have tried the obvious stuff. I have issues with vibrations from small front wheels, Electronics shook to pieces or to the point of failure. Mirrors will not stay in a fixed position.

I guessing it's some type of connection not maintaining contact but not losing it completely. Have you looked at the battery to baserunner connection. Just a wild thought. This one maybe hard to find or not what we think.

There is build threads where you can document step by step of a build and then the Before and After thread.
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zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Sep 07 2021 6:48am

ZeroEm wrote:
Aug 30 2021 6:12am
I guessing it's some type of connection not maintaining contact but not losing it completely. Have you looked at the battery to baserunner connection. Just a wild thought. This one maybe hard to find or not what we think.
I did the check, removed and replaced the connectors.
In order to isolate the issue, I removed all components that were connected to the CA.
The only ones I hadn't tried yet are:
- the PAS torque sensor
- the CA Switch (Auxiliary Digital Adjuster) - there is an off/on position for the whole electric system, so I don't think I can disconnect it

This morning I disconnected the torque sensor and replaced it with a simple PAS (12P).
Same result. So it's not coming from the erider PAS.
I noticed that as soon as there is a sudden increase of power from the hub. Eg. I reach the starting limit for the pas or pushing hard on the pedals, then immedialtely the CA display switch to the next screen.

So it seems related to the increase of power requested from the engine.
Can that be related to the GMAC? Magnetic interference? Or the trike material (it's aluminium in the back and metal in the front)?

I know that for a few weeks I had no issue with the trike. What could have changed?
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 07 2021 10:16am

there is an off/on position for the whole electric system
That disconnects the battery from the system and stops the battery from being drained. like my trike does when connected. Must watch these batteries.

I don't know what is going on. buying another one that does not work, well that would upset me. Will keep thinking on this. Hope someone else will share there insight. I will read up on the CA3 thread.
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zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Sep 08 2021 8:38am

I have a reply from GrinTech. Apparently it could be related to induce noise from the GMAC motor and disturbing specific CA controls.
I am not an isolated case apparently.
My particular issue could be related to noise into the CA buttons/switch. I have a procedure to disconnect the button pins cable inside the CA and see if this isolate the problem.

If that's the case, trying new cable routes.. or putting a capacitor between the Button + and ground signal pins.
Will try disconnect the button pins first.
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

matmat   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by matmat » Sep 10 2021 11:44pm

Zorbas, I may be having some success against a related (but different) problem by simply grounding the negative terminal of the battery against the frame. Suggest you try that.

zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Sep 15 2021 5:17am

matmat wrote:
Sep 10 2021 11:44pm
Zorbas, I may be having some success against a related (but different) problem by simply grounding the negative terminal of the battery against the frame. Suggest you try that.
Wow! I am not familiar with that technique and have basic understanding of electrical systems but after a quick search I have seen many comments strongly against the idea of grounding a battery to the frame. :shock: You had no issues after doing that?
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Sep 15 2021 5:20am

zorbas wrote:
Sep 08 2021 8:38am
I have a procedure to disconnect the button pins cable inside the CA and see if this isolate the problem.
I disconnected the CA buttons and indeed the issue remains. It's definitely related to induced noise from the system (battery or engine).
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
*
Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 15 2021 7:53am

by zorbas » Sep 15 2021 5:20am

zorbas wrote: ↑Sep 08 2021 8:38am
I have a procedure to disconnect the button pins cable inside the CA and see if this isolate the problem.
I disconnected the CA buttons and indeed the issue remains. It's definitely related to induced noise from the system (battery or engine).
Several months a go had it in my head how clean DC is. Then everyone reminded me how dirty it really is and in need of noise suppressors (such as your case) In the old days Cars created havoc on any electronics and remember having to buy suppressors. Then the problem seemed to go away. It did not go away the automotive industry started doing it themselves. I just forgot about it.
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matmat   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by matmat » Sep 16 2021 11:44pm

zorbas wrote:
Sep 15 2021 5:17am
Wow! I am not familiar with that technique and have basic understanding of electrical systems but after a quick search I have seen many comments strongly against the idea of grounding a battery to the frame. :shock: You had no issues after doing that?
No, in fact I've been running happily for a week without any trouble. I'm actually about to declare my problem fixed in another thread.

I have some background in physics and it did not occur to me that grounding the battery could be an issue..., I'm not sure I see why it would be, but there are surely people with much more experience than me.

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 17 2021 8:14am

Grounding is an issue. Most don't factor it in. I try to keep things Isolated and run a ground is needed. Things will ground thru other devices (shortest path) and things get strange.
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zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Sep 17 2021 8:30am

Yesterday, I did a test trying to remove all possible loop in the wiring of all components. I moved my battery from its current place into a bigger rack bag. And the problem was still there. So I put my battery in its usual battery bag below the seat, I kept the new cable routing though. Did a new test in the evening and the problerm is gone :shock:
The same day I bought 2 small 1nF capacitors ready to solder them in the CA. Maybe my ebike kit got afraid of them and started to behave :lol:
I cannot find any logic in all this. :roll:
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 17 2021 9:55am

Is your baserunner mounted with or in the battery base? What do you think? More vibration on the rack. Interesting issue.

Just wondering if bad connection in the baserunner powering the CA3. Just thinking out loud. Keep us updated if it comes back or you figure out what it is.
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zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Sep 19 2021 5:49am

The baserunner sits in the battery bag, yes. That's why I separated them for a test. But it didn't help.
Yesterday I dit another 50 km without any issue on the display and no explanations, besides maybe the new cable routing.

So I wont solder the capacitors in the CA for now.
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 19 2021 8:14am

Let us know. Something may burn out later or never have a problem again. I never comfortable with the unknown, but if not broke can't fit it.
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zorbas   10 mW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by zorbas » Oct 07 2021 7:19am

I have built a new wheel with a RH212 9C motor and since then, I have no issues at all with the dislay screen. I believe the problem was coming from the GMAC motor.
Zorbas (= Login) aka Benoit
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Modified ICE Trike - 2008 front QNT with 2014 rear VTX (700C)
GMAC 10T - Baserunner L10 - CA V3 - 48V9Ah VTC6 cells battery - Erider T68

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ZeroEm   100 MW

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Re: CA V3 display switching on its own

Post by ZeroEm » Oct 08 2021 6:21pm

That is interesting!
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