https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXFF2ewwC4endlessolli wrote: ↑Oct 19 2022 7:14am
The sprag clutches are press fitted - so glued or not, you need a hydraulic press to exchange them.
That is why I asked about hands-on experience w/ DIY tools or procedures for exchanging them
New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Thanks - great video!pxl666 wrote: ↑Oct 19 2022 9:41amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXFF2ewwC4endlessolli wrote: ↑Oct 19 2022 7:14am
The sprag clutches are press fitted - so glued or not, you need a hydraulic press to exchange them.
That is why I asked about hands-on experience w/ DIY tools or procedures for exchanging them
(I don't speak polish, but I think I got most of the details just by watching what he is doing.)
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
If I drive, for example, with a power of 200 watts, the motor power suddenly drops to 10 watts for half a second and then returns to 200 watts. This keeps repeating every five seconds or so. So the driving is pretty jerky. What could be wrong. Is it a hardware problem or a software problem?
Usually, the TSDZ2 works perfectly normally in the morning, but when I turn off the power, for example, to go to the store and then continue driving, the problem appears.
Usually, the TSDZ2 works perfectly normally in the morning, but when I turn off the power, for example, to go to the store and then continue driving, the problem appears.
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Addition, this is an example of a hand press for transition fits or light interference fits.endlessolli wrote: ↑Oct 19 2022 10:33amThanks - great video!pxl666 wrote: ↑Oct 19 2022 9:41amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXFF2ewwC4endlessolli wrote: ↑Oct 19 2022 7:14am
The sprag clutches are press fitted - so glued or not, you need a hydraulic press to exchange them.
That is why I asked about hands-on experience w/ DIY tools or procedures for exchanging them
(I don't speak polish, but I think I got most of the details just by watching what he is doing.)
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33006105 ... pt=glo2nld
Cheaper to source locally btw.
But in that regard it should also be duable to find someone with one in a recent range that can press one bearing in
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
nothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 9:11amhello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
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- Joined: Apr 16 2022 11:29am
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
yes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess thopxl666 wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 11:51amnothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 9:11amhello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
How do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 1:03pmyes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess thopxl666 wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 11:51amnothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 9:11amhello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Been away from here for a while, just enjoying my TSDZ2 bikes... Now thinking about options for making them quieter as the noise is starting to become annoying...
I guess it's the usual, strip, clean, debur, re-grease?
I guess it's the usual, strip, clean, debur, re-grease?
Genesis iOiD Alfine8 Hard tail MTB, 36v TSDZ2, 13s battery, SW102 display
Muddy Fox rock 'n roll pro full sus, aliexpress build, 1x10, 36v TSDZ2, SW102 display, 10s bottle cage battery
Both running mbrusa's firmware
Dorset, UK
Muddy Fox rock 'n roll pro full sus, aliexpress build, 1x10, 36v TSDZ2, SW102 display, 10s bottle cage battery
Both running mbrusa's firmware
Dorset, UK
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Either throttle+breaking or, not inheard of, shifting under load (which also causes torque spikes).Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 9:11amhello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
But, what I find more important personally, what grease did you use? As not all greases can actually be mixed at all!
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
most things can be pressed with vise big enough . you only have to select right size of pipe pieces or socketsornias wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 5:58amAddition, this is an example of a hand press for transition fits or light interference fits.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33006105 ... pt=glo2nld
Cheaper to source locally btw.
But in that regard it should also be duable to find someone with one in a recent range that can press one bearing in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R77Non6TBW4
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
100% correct as wellpxl666 wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 7:06ammost things can be pressed with vise big enough . you only have to select right size of pipe pieces or socketsornias wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 5:58amAddition, this is an example of a hand press for transition fits or light interference fits.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33006105 ... pt=glo2nld
Cheaper to source locally btw.
But in that regard it should also be duable to find someone with one in a recent range that can press one bearing in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R77Non6TBW4
Just wanted to throw out some options not including a hammer
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Can someone with a hardness test kit grab me a quick test-result of their stock TSDZ2 axle?
I'm aiming for a custom axle somewhere between 50 and 60 HRC... But don't have a test kit at hand to test the current axle.
I'm aiming for a custom axle somewhere between 50 and 60 HRC... But don't have a test kit at hand to test the current axle.
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
i use throttle mostly, also from standstill but . no i dont use brake sensors because i have hydraulic brakes and i dont care about buying these magnetic brake sensors. also yes i shift while on throttle i know this isnt good for the drivetrain but replacement parts are cheap on my bike(8 speed)beemac wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 3:16amHow do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 1:03pmyes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess thopxl666 wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 11:51amnothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 9:11amhello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...
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- Joined: Apr 16 2022 11:29am
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
interesting, i didn't know that shifting under load has any effect on the motor until now. yes i did that every now and then.. i use lucas red tacky n2 grease (some people here said its good so i chose it)ornias wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 5:52amEither throttle+breaking or, not inheard of, shifting under load (which also causes torque spikes).Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 9:11amhello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
But, what I find more important personally, what grease did you use? As not all greases can actually be mixed at all!
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Well, if you shift under load on a normal bike, you do feel the resistence "KLACK KLACK". I also wouldn't advice those peaks on a motor. But doing it "sometimes" shouldn't cause this kind of damage, no.Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 7:36aminteresting, i didn't know that shifting under load has any effect on the motor until now. yes i did that every now and then.. i use lucas red tacky n2 grease (some people here said its good so i chose it)ornias wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 5:52amEither throttle+breaking or, not inheard of, shifting under load (which also causes torque spikes).Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 9:11amhello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?
But, what I find more important personally, what grease did you use? As not all greases can actually be mixed at all!
On the topic of grease: Red and Tacky is amazing, but afaik you shouldn't mix lithium grease with non lithium grease regardless of quality
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
if grease is discussed - what do you think of MOBIL SHC POLYREX 462 ?
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Imho it's using the throttle from standstill that's going to contribute a lot to this sort of wear I would think. Using the motor only to accelerate from a standing start puts much more torque through the motor gearing than if you start by pedalling and use the motor to assist your pedalling.Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 7:33ami use throttle mostly, also from standstill but . no i dont use brake sensors because i have hydraulic brakes and i dont care about buying these magnetic brake sensors. also yes i shift while on throttle i know this isnt good for the drivetrain but replacement parts are cheap on my bike(8 speed)beemac wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 3:16amHow do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 1:03pmyes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess tho
My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...
I also think that brake sensors are necessary - in a car when you brake to a stop you don't just expect the engine to just stop with you - you depress the clutch (or the automatic gearbox does it for you) to disengage the motor and stop it stalling. If you don't have brake sensors and you're pedalling whilst braking or the motor is simply running on a bit - you're putting pressure on the motor gearing as it's trying to push you forward as you hold it back with the brakes - that's going to cause more cog wear...
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
thanks....looks like i will buy the brake sensors now! and hope this time my motor will stay goodbeemac wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 8:26amImho it's using the throttle from standstill that's going to contribute a lot to this sort of wear I would think. Using the motor only to accelerate from a standing start puts much more torque through the motor gearing than if you start by pedalling and use the motor to assist your pedalling.Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 7:33ami use throttle mostly, also from standstill but . no i dont use brake sensors because i have hydraulic brakes and i dont care about buying these magnetic brake sensors. also yes i shift while on throttle i know this isnt good for the drivetrain but replacement parts are cheap on my bike(8 speed)beemac wrote: ↑Oct 21 2022 3:16amHow do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?Matze_Senpai wrote: ↑Oct 20 2022 1:03pm
yes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess tho
My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...
I also think that brake sensors are necessary - in a car when you brake to a stop you don't just expect the engine to just stop with you - you depress the clutch (or the automatic gearbox does it for you) to disengage the motor and stop it stalling. If you don't have brake sensors and you're pedalling whilst braking or the motor is simply running on a bit - you're putting pressure on the motor gearing as it's trying to push you forward as you hold it back with the brakes - that's going to cause more cog wear...
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Nitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Thank you for shearing.Wapous wrote: ↑Oct 26 2022 9:58pmNitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP
Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
I converted my 2013 Trek 8.5 DS to e-bike last year with a Bafang mid-mount motor. Two months ago, I sold the Bafang and installed a TSDZ2 with 860C and OSF. Beautiful…. Recently, the motor developed a gear whine noise and I replaced the blue gear and greased. Gear whine still very present, so I bought a TSDZ2B on AliExpress and installed just the motor yesterday. I had to swap out the motor controls because of the open source firmware – no problem. Just did a test ride and dead quiet. The new “B” version has improved internal gears, bearings, and sprag clutch. This is too cool. Back in the saddle again...
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
I replaced the gasket with a green Wristband cut to the correct height. It works.dameri wrote: ↑Oct 27 2022 1:43amThank you for shearing.Wapous wrote: ↑Oct 26 2022 9:58pmNitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP
Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?
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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
Very cool. Thanks.Wapous wrote: ↑Oct 27 2022 11:43amI replaced the gasket with a green Wristband cut to the correct height. It works.dameri wrote: ↑Oct 27 2022 1:43amThank you for shearing.Wapous wrote: ↑Oct 26 2022 9:58pmNitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP
Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?
Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"
First off:Piper J3 wrote: ↑Oct 27 2022 10:27amI converted my 2013 Trek 8.5 DS to e-bike last year with a Bafang mid-mount motor. Two months ago, I sold the Bafang and installed a TSDZ2 with 860C and OSF. Beautiful…. Recently, the motor developed a gear whine noise and I replaced the blue gear and greased. Gear whine still very present, so I bought a TSDZ2B on AliExpress and installed just the motor yesterday. I had to swap out the motor controls because of the open source firmware – no problem. Just did a test ride and dead quiet. The new “B” version has improved internal gears, bearings, and sprag clutch. This is too cool. Back in the saddle again...
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TongSheng is known for shipping a clutch that is already barely capable of covering the load (110nm rated) if made by a good manufacturer, but ship it chinesium grade.
I've seen no evidence they started to use higher quality bearings in the TSDZ2B, nor have I seen evidence of better internal gears.
However, I do know that they moved from freely available clutches (and thus replaceable by a quality variant) to a self-designed clutch.
The company that has 0.2mm(!) tolerance on a bearing axle and isn't able to pick the right clutch, is now starting to design their own clutches... That's not a good sign.
High quality clutches are EXPENSIVE. A good quality clutch is about 1/3-1/5th of the complete price of the TSDZ2. No way they ship one of good quality now, it's simply not possible at their pricepoint.
I also call bullshit on the better internals, considering everything that is actually breaking due to design issues (circlips, tolerances etc) is still the same.