New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[pxl666]

The sprag clutches are press fitted - so glued or not, you need a hydraulic press to exchange them.
That is why I asked about hands-on experience w/ DIY tools or procedures for exchanging them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXFF2ewwC4

[endlessolli]

The sprag clutches are press fitted - so glued or not, you need a hydraulic press to exchange them.
That is why I asked about hands-on experience w/ DIY tools or procedures for exchanging them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXFF2ewwC4

Thanks - great video!
(I don't speak polish, but I think I got most of the details just by watching what he is doing.)

[dameri]

If I drive, for example, with a power of 200 watts, the motor power suddenly drops to 10 watts for half a second and then returns to 200 watts. This keeps repeating every five seconds or so. So the driving is pretty jerky. What could be wrong. Is it a hardware problem or a software problem?

Usually, the TSDZ2 works perfectly normally in the morning, but when I turn off the power, for example, to go to the store and then continue driving, the problem appears.

[ornias]

The sprag clutches are press fitted - so glued or not, you need a hydraulic press to exchange them.
That is why I asked about hands-on experience w/ DIY tools or procedures for exchanging them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjXFF2ewwC4

Thanks - great video!
(I don't speak polish, but I think I got most of the details just by watching what he is doing.)

Addition, this is an example of a hand press for transition fits or light interference fits.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33006105 ... pt=glo2nld

Cheaper to source locally btw.
But in that regard it should also be duable to find someone with one in a recent range that can press one bearing in

[Matze_Senpai]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

[pxl666]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

nothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?

[Matze_Senpai]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

nothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?

yes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess tho

[beemac]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

nothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?

yes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess tho

How do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?

My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...

[HughF]

Been away from here for a while, just enjoying my TSDZ2 bikes... Now thinking about options for making them quieter as the noise is starting to become annoying...

I guess it's the usual, strip, clean, debur, re-grease?

[ornias]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

Either throttle+breaking or, not inheard of, shifting under load (which also causes torque spikes).

But, what I find more important personally, what grease did you use? As not all greases can actually be mixed at all!

[pxl666]

Addition, this is an example of a hand press for transition fits or light interference fits.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33006105 ... pt=glo2nld

Cheaper to source locally btw.
But in that regard it should also be duable to find someone with one in a recent range that can press one bearing in

most things can be pressed with vise big enough . you only have to select right size of pipe pieces or sockets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R77Non6TBW4

[ornias]

Addition, this is an example of a hand press for transition fits or light interference fits.
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/33006105 ... pt=glo2nld

Cheaper to source locally btw.
But in that regard it should also be duable to find someone with one in a recent range that can press one bearing in

most things can be pressed with vise big enough . you only have to select right size of pipe pieces or sockets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R77Non6TBW4

100% correct as well

Just wanted to throw out some options not including a hammer

[ornias]

Can someone with a hardness test kit grab me a quick test-result of their stock TSDZ2 axle?

I'm aiming for a custom axle somewhere between 50 and 60 HRC... But don't have a test kit at hand to test the current axle.

[Matze_Senpai]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

nothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?

yes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess tho

How do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?

My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...

i use throttle mostly, also from standstill but . no i dont use brake sensors because i have hydraulic brakes and i dont care about buying these magnetic brake sensors. also yes i shift while on throttle i know this isnt good for the drivetrain but replacement parts are cheap on my bike(8 speed)

[Matze_Senpai]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

Either throttle+breaking or, not inheard of, shifting under load (which also causes torque spikes).

But, what I find more important personally, what grease did you use? As not all greases can actually be mixed at all!

interesting, i didn't know that shifting under load has any effect on the motor until now. yes i did that every now and then.. i use lucas red tacky n2 grease (some people here said its good so i chose it)

[ornias]

hello so i just opened my tsdz2 to regrease it and it looks like this. guess i need a new gear
im running 52v@16a OSF with vlcd5 and throttle.
now my question is: did this happen because i didn't clean the old grease enough and the two grease combined OR did i run my motor too hard or a combination of both?

Either throttle+breaking or, not inheard of, shifting under load (which also causes torque spikes).

But, what I find more important personally, what grease did you use? As not all greases can actually be mixed at all!

interesting, i didn't know that shifting under load has any effect on the motor until now. yes i did that every now and then.. i use lucas red tacky n2 grease (some people here said its good so i chose it)

Well, if you shift under load on a normal bike, you do feel the resistence "KLACK KLACK". I also wouldn't advice those peaks on a motor. But doing it "sometimes" shouldn't cause this kind of damage, no.

On the topic of grease: Red and Tacky is amazing, but afaik you shouldn't mix lithium grease with non lithium grease regardless of quality

[pxl666]

if grease is discussed - what do you think of MOBIL SHC POLYREX 462 ?

[beemac]

nothing weird was happening before ? no weird noises? how does the steel gear looks like ? I mean the small one on nylon gear ?

yes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess tho

How do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?

My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...

i use throttle mostly, also from standstill but . no i dont use brake sensors because i have hydraulic brakes and i dont care about buying these magnetic brake sensors. also yes i shift while on throttle i know this isnt good for the drivetrain but replacement parts are cheap on my bike(8 speed)

Imho it's using the throttle from standstill that's going to contribute a lot to this sort of wear I would think. Using the motor only to accelerate from a standing start puts much more torque through the motor gearing than if you start by pedalling and use the motor to assist your pedalling.

I also think that brake sensors are necessary - in a car when you brake to a stop you don't just expect the engine to just stop with you - you depress the clutch (or the automatic gearbox does it for you) to disengage the motor and stop it stalling. If you don't have brake sensors and you're pedalling whilst braking or the motor is simply running on a bit - you're putting pressure on the motor gearing as it's trying to push you forward as you hold it back with the brakes - that's going to cause more cog wear...

[Matze_Senpai]

yes around 50km before it started to sound kind of dry. like it needed some grease(thats what i thought).the small steel gear looks fine. it was kind of a pain to clean this mess tho

How do you ride? Do you use a throttle? If so, do you use it from standstill? Do you use brake sensors? Do you go up steep hills?

My guess is that this is more likely to happen if you use the throttle, especially from a slow start - and/or you don't have brake sensors and brake a lot under power. But I know some don't agree that brake sensors are necessary...

i use throttle mostly, also from standstill but . no i dont use brake sensors because i have hydraulic brakes and i dont care about buying these magnetic brake sensors. also yes i shift while on throttle i know this isnt good for the drivetrain but replacement parts are cheap on my bike(8 speed)

Imho it's using the throttle from standstill that's going to contribute a lot to this sort of wear I would think. Using the motor only to accelerate from a standing start puts much more torque through the motor gearing than if you start by pedalling and use the motor to assist your pedalling.

I also think that brake sensors are necessary - in a car when you brake to a stop you don't just expect the engine to just stop with you - you depress the clutch (or the automatic gearbox does it for you) to disengage the motor and stop it stalling. If you don't have brake sensors and you're pedalling whilst braking or the motor is simply running on a bit - you're putting pressure on the motor gearing as it's trying to push you forward as you hold it back with the brakes - that's going to cause more cog wear...

thanks....looks like i will buy the brake sensors now! and hope this time my motor will stay good

[Wapous]

Nitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP

[dameri]

Nitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP

Thank you for shearing.

Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?

[Piper J3]

I converted my 2013 Trek 8.5 DS to e-bike last year with a Bafang mid-mount motor. Two months ago, I sold the Bafang and installed a TSDZ2 with 860C and OSF. Beautiful…. Recently, the motor developed a gear whine noise and I replaced the blue gear and greased. Gear whine still very present, so I bought a TSDZ2B on AliExpress and installed just the motor yesterday. I had to swap out the motor controls because of the open source firmware – no problem. Just did a test ride and dead quiet. The new “B” version has improved internal gears, bearings, and sprag clutch. This is too cool. Back in the saddle again...
-

[Wapous]

Nitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP

Thank you for shearing.

Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?

I replaced the gasket with a green Wristband cut to the correct height. It works.

[dameri]

Nitrile O-Rings from Aliexpress do the trick.
The dimensions are: OD: 58mm ID: 55mm and thickness: 1.5mm
The quantity is 50. Price around 5 US $.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... 1802orN9XP

Thank you for shearing.

Do you have some special (green) gasket outside of the bolt ring?

I replaced the gasket with a green Wristband cut to the correct height. It works.

Very cool. Thanks.

[ornias]

I converted my 2013 Trek 8.5 DS to e-bike last year with a Bafang mid-mount motor. Two months ago, I sold the Bafang and installed a TSDZ2 with 860C and OSF. Beautiful…. Recently, the motor developed a gear whine noise and I replaced the blue gear and greased. Gear whine still very present, so I bought a TSDZ2B on AliExpress and installed just the motor yesterday. I had to swap out the motor controls because of the open source firmware – no problem. Just did a test ride and dead quiet. The new “B” version has improved internal gears, bearings, and sprag clutch. This is too cool. Back in the saddle again...
-

First off:
TongSheng is known for shipping a clutch that is already barely capable of covering the load (110nm rated) if made by a good manufacturer, but ship it chinesium grade.

I've seen no evidence they started to use higher quality bearings in the TSDZ2B, nor have I seen evidence of better internal gears.

However, I do know that they moved from freely available clutches (and thus replaceable by a quality variant) to a self-designed clutch.

The company that has 0.2mm(!) tolerance on a bearing axle and isn't able to pick the right clutch, is now starting to design their own clutches... That's not a good sign.

High quality clutches are EXPENSIVE. A good quality clutch is about 1/3-1/5th of the complete price of the TSDZ2. No way they ship one of good quality now, it's simply not possible at their pricepoint.

I also call bullshit on the better internals, considering everything that is actually breaking due to design issues (circlips, tolerances etc) is still the same.