Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

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Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby progrock » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:03 am

Hey all, hoping this is the right place to hope, as well as hope this doesn't offend anyone.

I'm about to convert a bike to an ebike, and the current bike has "The Eno" crankset/freewheel from White Industries. I can't say I want to spend $40+ for the removal tool for a single use.... unless I truly end up needing it. BUT, I figure a very easy alternative would be, if anyone here does own the tool, and doesn't mind giving me it's dimensions (as many as you can, as precise as you can, concentrating on the key parts) it should be pretty easy to 3D model the tool in Fusion360, and produce a 3D printable model. And I'm hoping Polycarbonate will be strong enough to work.

Anyway, also interested in hearing people's opinions on the morality of posting the model online (Of course for free). I definitely think selling it would not be moral, and I would never... but providing it as a free model may not be that bad. I mean, I feel like specific tools like this are more of shops to own to do the job right... but many/most home mechanics aren't going to spend the money, and are more likely to ghetto rig some form of a tool/method that can do the job, sometimes at the cost of potentially damaging the part. I don't think most shops are gonna find a printable tool as a replacement for the real thing (even if the printed version works, it definitely won't be as durable as the real thing... and likely would only work for a few uses.)

Also, there is a chance that this won't work at all. I don't think most common 3d printable plastics would be strong enough (I highly doubt PLA would hold up)... but Polycarbonate is pretty damn strong (tho much harder to print... luckily I have a printer with a bed that can hit 130C no problem, and a hotend that can easily hit the ~250C I need to print.. and this tool is small enough and should be easy enough to print with the correct setup)

On a side note, it could also be possible for many other "one off" unique tools that your average home mechanic usually won't want to pay for. I'm willing to try to help model any that seem easy enough... if I'm given the accurate dimensions. Again, still want to hear the general consensus. My vote is this is fair, as long as the models are available for free, and should allow more people to be able to use the "right" tools to get the job done.. while I doubt it will impact sales much, if at all of these one off, tools that have the tendency to be drastically overpriced for no apparent reason, other than they can be since there are no other good options.
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Re: Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby amberwolf » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:20 am

$40 for a removal tool? Somebody's gouging there.

Looks like an FR-6 from Park Tools would fit it; that's less than $10 at any bike shop or online.
https://www.parktool.com/product/freewh ... 0Freewheel

if not that, one of the others should fit
https://www.parktool.com/category/cassette-freewheel


You could even take the bike to your local bike shop and see if they'll take it off for a few bucks if you don't need the tool except for the one use.
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Re: Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby progrock » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:10 am

Yeah.. totally gouging.. hence me wanting to model a 3D copy of it to print... which has a pretty decent chance of working... at least if printed in Polycarbonate, or similar strong material.

Ironically, just realized I don't actually need it right now... tho still totally down to make model if anyone can provide the measurements.

But, I do need a Phil Wood 18 spine Bottom Bracket tool... took me some time to figure out that's what I have... pretty rare... and looks SOO similar to your standard 20 spine shimano BB... just the tiniest bit smaller. Luckily this guy is only $15-20... could be worse... but need to order one ASAP so it gets here quick.
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Re: Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby progrock » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:12 am

Oh, I would also LOVE to make the White Industries Lockring tool for the ENO.... another $40 tool. Tho I have not yet looked for alternatives...
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Re: Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby progrock » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:28 pm

OK, so.... when it comes to the White industries lock ring removal tool... looks like I don't need the dimensions. I have my "The ENO" crank set off of my bike, which makes the lock ring very accessible. Given, I'm sure plenty of lock ring tools could take this off... not to mention wouldn't be that hard to rig up something, though as one should expect, if you don't have anything close to the "right" tool, your likely-hood of damaging the lock ring when removing it would be much higher.

Anyway, later today, when I have a free hour, I'll be making a 3D model of something similar to the official tool, will be very easy to do.... might require 1-3 test prints before I get it exactly right, but I can pretty much guarantee by the 4th try I'll have something that works.

Considering the title of the thread is becoming less and less accurate.... maybe I should create a new thread... something like "Lets make some 3D printable models of, usually overpriced, custom tools" or something a long those lines. I have a feeling it will get quite a bit more attention then this one. Plus, once I have this model ready, will have a good starting point to peak people's interest. Could be pretty cool if it builds some steam... a collection of free, 3D printable models of all those tools than none of us home mechanics want to spend the money for (Especially when they are 5-10 times the price they should be... and only work on 1 brand... or even worse, 1 specific product from a single brand). And while they may not be AS good as the real thing (probably mostly due to durability).... chances are, there will be a good number of these tools that can be reproduced this way, and work much better than any other alternative method.
Last edited by progrock on Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby amberwolf » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:03 am

progrock wrote: Considering the title of the thread is becoming less and less accurate.... maybe I should create a new thread... something like "Lets make some 3D printable models of, usually overpriced, custom tools" or something a long those lines. I have a feeling it will get quite a bit more attention then this one.


Just edit the first post, and change the subject / topic line. ;)
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Re: Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby progrock » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:13 am

OK, good idea, will update the title as soon as I am ready with my first 3d printable tool... a lock ring remover, specifically designed for the white industries ENO lock ring... but might be usable for others.

One thing I am experiencing, which I actually expected is... While I can design a model attempting to match the original tool as much as possible, due to this being 3d printing, and the tools will be in plastic... compared to their metal counterparts... they usually don't have the strength necessary. This likely wont' be true with every tool, but definitely for most. BUT, the simple solution is to modify the design, so that it can still do what it was supposed to, just build differently than the original. It's also going to matter what plastic the tool is printed in, while PLA is the most common 3d printing filament, due to it's ease of printing... it's almost never gonna work for tools. ABS and PETG might work for some (and my goal is to make designs that at least can work as these when possible).... but for most tools, the best option for a 3d printable plastic is going to by PolyCarbonate (or something very close, ie. my preference, PC+PBT). Sadly all PC based filaments are on the harder side to print. I've had good luck by setting my bed to 130 degrees Celsius, and my nozzle to 245-255C. While many people can get their nozzle to this (assuming they have a full metal hotend), not so many can get their beds that high. This is why I'm gonna try my best to get these to work as ABS and/or PETG, which are both similar in strength and ease of printing (generally require heated beds, and ideally full metal hotends... but not in the crazy high temp levels like a 130C bed, more like a 50-90C bed is more than enough for those).

Anyway, my plan is to first design a model imitating the original tool as much as possible (when it is practical to start there)... Then start making adjustments until I feel it's functional as plastic.. then possibly make additional versions slightly different to give people some options. I'll try to release all the versions, as well as the Fusion360 model so people can make their own changes if they want (I try to set almost every dimension as a Parameter, so anything can easily be adjusted with no 3d modeling knowledge... just need to change some numbers in the list of Parameters, and watch as the model automatically updates itself).

To give an example of what I mean, I'll describe my current work on the White Industries Lockring tool. I basically made something almost identical to the metal tool, with similar dimensions, that could attach to a 3/8" socket wrench (I'm pretty sure that's what the original tool works with... though that's an educated guess based on the size of the lockring, and the size of the photos of the tool. But, when printing this tool (doing test prints in PETG before I got to PC+PBT), the 3 small "teeth" that would connect to the lockring to rotate it, are so thin they would snap off with practically no pressure on them. Given, Polycarbonate would def work better but at the original dimensions, even PC might not be strong enough. The very simple solution here is to expand the exterior diameter.... that way the tool would still fit over the lockring, but the teeth could be as thick as I find necessary in my tests, so the tool should still function fine, just will look a little different (And with my 3D model, it is almost trivial to increase or decrease the exterior diameter.... so people are free to adjust to their liking... and if enough people request an adjustment, I'll even do it for them). Now, as I mentioned, I made this to attach to a 3/8" socket wrench.. simply because that's what the original did. BUT, this could theoretically be a weak point (tho I admit, likely won't be an issue).. but what I might do as an alternative model/option is instead of making it attach to a socket wrench, simply make it shaped so a common wrench can be used to turn it (probably something like a 15mm wrench)... since it's a plastic tool, this other version would likely be a little stronger and hold up better than the first... even tho the 3/8" socket likely will work just fine.

Good news is.. I'm pretty much done with version 1 of this tool, just need to do a couple of final test prints. Then depending on how they go, may or may not make the second version I described right away. Hopefully I'll be able to release at least the first version by the end of today.
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Re: Anyone have White Industries freewheel removal tool?

Postby progrock » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:12 am

OK, after quite a few trial and errors, I finally got a model that worked to get my lockring off of my White Industries The ENO cranks. Considering they were on this bike for over 5 years, it was a little tougher to get off than expected... definitely took A LOT more than the 30 ft/lbs of torque recommended for installing them. Given some heat probably would have helped loosen things quite a bit, but was more trying to test the different iterations of the tool. Considering how tight this lockring was, the only viable plastic that I have for printing was my PolyCarbonate + PBT (PC+PBT from pushplastic). I also ended up printing at 100% infill... which may not be totally necessary, but a high value is definitely recommended.

In order to provide the easiest to use model for printing (.STL file), I still need to import the one produced by Fusion360 into one that'll let me set up the correct printing orientation (I know this is really simple to do by yourself in whatever slicer you use.... but I remember when I first started 3D printing, and would models off thingiverse that were totally oriented wrong, it can definitely lead to confusion for beginners, do I figure I'll make it easy). I'll try to take care of this later tonight (just setup a new computer for doing 3D modeling, and currently only have Fusion360 installed, so need to get another application for these edits). I'll also post the Fusion 360 file for people who may find it necessary to tweak some values (not all printers print exactly the same, tho most good ones that are calibrated correctly should be able to use the model as is.... if there are problems that multiple people encounter, I'll also try to release updates).

I will say, not the best tool for 3D printing, but I had to start somewhere, and hopefully more tools will come up that will be better for 3D printing, where people won't need to use the more advanced filaments like the PolyCarbonate based ones), I'm just glad this did end up working for me. When I post the model, I'll be updating the original post and title to be more relevant.

One positive note, I found it really easy to create a base for tools to mount onto a standard 3/8" socket wrench (even created an indent in the middle for the ball to lock in place). It would also be trivial to change 1 parameter to go from 3/8" to any other size that would work, ie. 1/2". At least I know that part of the tools in the future will work very cleanly.
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