Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

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markz   100 GW

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Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by markz » Sep 22 2018 12:27pm

I randomly came across this on a search engine.

After reading the title, I noted the date of the article and took a second and thought to myself; How has ES changed. I havent noticed any change in 3.5yrs.

Then I read on

The title is misleading.

Lets not get into the whole Sondors thing again, there is another thread for that.

By posting this, I really wanted to go deeper and find out if ES has changed at all and what you like about ES.

https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/02/2 ... d-to-know/
What The Hell Has Happened To The Endless-Sphere I Used To Know?
Karl Gesslein / February 25, 2015
24 posts on search term Karl Gesslein on ES - search.php?keywords=Karl+Gesslein
I just wanted to get a feel for the author and where he is coming from. Its interesting to read those 24 posts, and more of his articles on his blog website. I just skimmed over the articles looking at pictures and reading the pics comment. Luna seems to be a theme. All articles on the blog I read were written by Karl. Digging deeper the bog electricbike-blog.com is a spinoff of electricbike.com which makes sense now. This looks like a good read - article on LFP
The forum I’ve been lurking on for the last 8 months
Ever since the beginning of the Storm\Ivars Sondors Electric Bike Campaign there has been a not-so-subtle change on my favorite forum endless-sphere.com, and the change has not been for the better. What used to be a civil discussion platform for people wanting support or to connect with other ebike builders has degenerated into what appears to be just another bad episode of Jerry Springer. Storm\Ivars Sondors has arrived to the ebike scene and sold 7000 promises for a $499\$599 electric fatbike in a few short weeks and the ebike world got turned upside-down.
If we pull together as a community and decide to support the people who have pledged to the campaign with whatever support they need, that would seem to be the best course of action. Petty rivalry and negativity can only serve to keep us from achieving our goals of promoting ebikes for the masses.
Last edited by markz on Sep 22 2018 1:01pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by markz » Sep 22 2018 12:28pm

A Friendly Reminder

Lets not get into the whole Sondors debate.

The question is:

How has ES has changed, if at all and what you like about ES.
Last edited by markz on Sep 22 2018 12:35pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by markz » Sep 22 2018 12:32pm

Things I have noticed and is normal in life

- People come and people go - I really enjoyed Icecube57's podcasts and Hobbyking LiPo battery testing.

Other things I enjoyed

- Motoped by recumpence - viewtopic.php?f=28&t=62040&hilit=motope ... 0#p1122377
- Peoples project builds: Like that gas(200cc)/electric hybrid "enduro" style.
- Custom fabrication builds: Pro tools to laymans home owner tools - From frame modifications to battery boxes.
- 3D Printing: Like modular 18650 DIY projects and the consumer 18650 pack building product.


-----------------------------

OK OK I get it, no ones instantly getting into this thread.


You ever ask yourself
Where are they now?

Jeremy Harris - Last active: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:43 am
Arkmundi - Last active: Sun May 20, 2018 8:11 pm
icecube57 - Last active: Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:39 pm
GGoodrum - Last active: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:40 pm
\/ampa - Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:35 pm
AussieJester - Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:15 pm

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www.recumbents.com   10 kW

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by www.recumbents.com » Sep 24 2018 12:32pm

The changes I have seen are that as e-bikes became more mainstream there are fewer cool projects and more people asking how to fix things or how to upgrade. Other than that, I think the e-skateboard scene has really taken off.

Speaking of that, I was in Ft. Lauderdale, FL recently and saw several people cruising down the street on e-skateboards, one at night had LED string lights under the side. Another had two bright headlights mounted under the front of the deck, and two bright taillights on the back. They were very visible.

Warren

markz   100 GW

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by markz » Sep 24 2018 5:37pm

Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 7:42 pm - www.recumbents.com Posts: 824

2008, lots of changes in the industry in the last 10 years.

Pedego Timeline - https://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/press/timeline/
2008 Pedego Opens Doors at First Company Location on Daimler Street in Irvine (1500 square feet) Don DiCostanzo and Terry Sherry Make Plans to Co-Found Pedego Electric Bikes on a Cocktail Napkin
http://www.ibike.org/library/history-timeline.htm
1881 Gustave Trouvé experimented with electric drive on a Starley Coventry Lever Tricycle. Ove the next twenty years inventors made significant development on electric power assist bikes. See https://www.electricbike.com/e-bike-pat ... the-1800s/
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1125&p=1413790&hilit=history#p17181

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295#p365691

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by neptronix » Sep 24 2018 6:03pm

Karl is not really a participating member and is buddies with lunacycle. AFAIK Eric paid him to write about his products and shill them at one point. This article was written when Eric was selling sondors upgrades and stuff.

He joined ES FB but generally what he did was post his blog articles and get super defensive when anyone had a criticism on them. ( seemed like he was a newbie to building ebikes at the time, so getting criticized for sketchy things shouldn't be a surprise - even i got shit early on from ES members.. i consider it part of the hazing process.. :lol: )

8 months of participation is not long enough to say 'oh wow, there's been a big change in this forum'. Sorry.

Take his words with a grain of salt, or maybe the whole shaker.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by neptronix » Sep 24 2018 6:08pm

Ah, just glanced at his blog again. Mostly Luna products. Still on the payroll apparently.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by neptronix » Sep 24 2018 7:35pm

markz wrote:
Sep 22 2018 12:28pm
The question is:
How has ES has changed, if at all and what you like about ES.
Sorry, i got triggered when Karl's name came up and kinda missed the point. :pancake:

IMHO ES hasn't changed a lot. Maybe it's less active now that so many people are jumping into prebuilt ebikes because they don't suck as bad these days. Also, we are losing or have lost our #1 spot for ebike discussion to platforms like reddit and facebook; which are more responsive and dopaminergenic. This is a big sticking point for me because web forum software hasn't really improved much.

Similar cast of characters and vibe/ethos. And that's what really counts to me.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

markz   100 GW

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by markz » Sep 24 2018 8:17pm

I am not a Faceplant user, I never really was. Don't see the "Look at what I eat" syndrome, or shall we say the "Look at me" disease.

Reddit, yeah I run across posts while I am searching, again not a fan of reddit.

I had to look up ethos which I vaguely kinda knew, I thought value's after a moment of thinking what ethos means
Definition is: the distinguishing character, sentiment, moral nature, or guiding beliefs of a person, group, or institution
and
dopaminergenic (sp)
dopaminergic - liberating, activated by, or involving dopamine or related substances
another defines as "activated"
I bet you play Scrabble neptronix or even Go!

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by Dauntless » Sep 25 2018 2:40am

On the projects not being as kewl, maybe 5-7 years ago extending the back of your bike and putting on a 500w hub was kewl, now it's blaze. So that's just ES changing with the times, someone who's never read any of this would find those threads far more interesting if they popped up today.

Let's not forget Colossus, it was coming back to read up on it from time to time that got me more interested in ES. Doesn't that motor seem almost tame, now?

There ARE exciting projects, but now what's really interesting seems a bit out of reach for most of us. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96464 Compared to the extension and hubmotor that were within reach of most board readers. I'm certainly tired of finding the old junk bikes, a la my Voy and eCycle Dash, to fix and dream of what COULD have made it a good bike. Also the failures with the XGames bike, etc., that just didn't make much of a ride for all the time, effort, money. It was all fun for awhile, there. . .

Maybe the bigger change is in the nature of the trolls. I remember first thinking Jeremy Harris was a bit of a troll, then I realized the intensity with which he was BEING trolled was getting Nietzschean. ("Whomever fights monsters must be careful not to BECOME ONE. . . .") At one point we had a small discussion of that, I don't remember if it was on the board or eMail. I assume it was being fedup that drove him away. But why would they carp at HIM, if not simply because he was popular?

Now it's at least nice that we have troll catcher threads where they hate each other moreso than the rest of us. I've noticed there's some moderator pressure to get them to USE the ignore, they're not all good about it but what can you do? I could guess at just which troll also posts under what other name, but I never know for sure.

So I guess one big change is where once we had Jeremy, the man they love to hate, now there's me, the man they hate to love. They will stop at nothing to read my posts. NOTHING! Their responses can be pretty nothing, too. But I'd like to think I've proven it really is possible to brain freeze them in numbers and quell some of it.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by markz » Sep 27 2018 10:11pm

I wondered what happened to Jeremy Harris, so many great posts he had. Perhaps he is still around and "lurking", probably not, but maybe just maybe he is. Looking into whats new, new products, this that and the other.



:lol:
Dauntless wrote:
Sep 25 2018 2:40am
So I guess one big change is where once we had Jeremy, the man they love to hate, now there's me, the man they hate to love. They will stop at nothing to read my posts. NOTHING! Their responses can be pretty nothing, too. But I'd like to think I've proven it really is possible to brain freeze them in numbers and quell some of it.
:lol:

The crossword today had Ego Deflation, I had to cheat and google it.

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by Dauntless » Sep 27 2018 10:39pm

markz wrote:
Sep 27 2018 10:11pm
I wondered what happened to Jeremy Harris, so many great posts he had. Perhaps he is still around and "lurking", probably not, but maybe just maybe he is. Looking into whats new, new products, this that and the other.
I remember he had the story he'd be busy about a year, but I was sure it was an escape. A few more of him and maybe I'd be willing to brave the troll hoardes with an actual build threads. Dang, might be the tipping point of one of mine breaking through to being worthwhile. But I feel the trembling of the moderators at me even mentioning it.
markz wrote:
Sep 27 2018 10:11pm
The crossword today had Ego Deflation, I had to cheat and google it.
You're not suggestion I should feel guilty at making the poor BABIES feel bad about themselves, are you?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by e-beach » Sep 27 2018 10:49pm

Dauntless wrote:
Sep 27 2018 10:39pm
..... I'd be willing to brave the troll hoardes with an actual build thread.
Do you mean you actually have one?... :lol: And btw, what is a hoarde anyway?

:D
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Current build: Liahona w/ cheap front suspension and suspension seat post. Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front hub motor. 15ah Headway triangle mounted pack. Tronsung 30 amp,

Previous Build:1992 Trek Antelope 800 - Bone Crusher (no suspension) - Yescomusa 800 watt 36 volt front wheel kit. Don't do it! Get suspension!!!

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by Dauntless » Sep 27 2018 11:42pm

e-beach wrote:
Sep 27 2018 10:49pm

Do you mean you actually have one?
Not that I'd let you see. When you gonna put me in ignore? Ask Chalo how. He claims to have done it many times. Not sure how good a job he does, it seems to stop working.
e-beach wrote:
Sep 27 2018 10:49pm
.. :lol: And btw, what is a hoarde anyway?
Pretty much any thread you and yours are regulars in.

Aw, man, is my literary background gettin' to ya agin? When I think of how hard it is to be you,. . . .

https://www.thehoarde.com
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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by dogman dan » Oct 03 2018 7:42am

One thing that changed on ES, in the last 10 years, is some of us got noticeably old. Or other shit happened.

In my case a severe illness put me in a bed 22 hours a day, and I had time to write all those posts 7 or 8 years ago. Now much, but not completely recovered, I have better things to use my time on. I am not stuck in bed anymore. I even fully retired to have even more time for being out on a bike or motorcycle, vs laying in bed all day with ES on my computer. Burning my house with a cheap ass ali express battery definitely damped my enthusiasm for doing everything by e bike. That changed me a LOT.

At present, I have many e bikes laying around, and no usable batteries. So that makes the 400 cc scooter a bit more attractive. Next spring I do plan to get battery, and back to some e bike riding. This summer I pedaled regular bikes quite a bit, since my health can stand it again. In short, I can now physically handle some other fun toys, so its not all e bike these days.

I cant speak for Jeremy, but he also got involved in other things as I understand it. Life goes on.

The other thing that caused a big change at ES, was Justin owning the site. Not that that is a problem, it not. But its been a problem for some other vendors point of view.

It wasn't really just the Sondors thing that caused heavy editing by moderators, but rather some vendors began to post things we could not have on the forum or requested us to censor any customer complaints. Yes, this stifled discussions, but it was needed. Many of us became vendors, or worked for vendors, and realized that we could only make things worse by posting just about any comment about our company or its products. For years I had to keep my mouth very shut about E bikekit product. I did not help if I chimed in on some pissed off customers post. I could help out folks some with easy technical fixes or questions, but no opinions please. No spirited discussions when I had moderator power here.


Thank god the spirit of ES is still here, but as some of the best members got recruited into moderators, we did have to tone down our discussions, and avoid blatant touting of our own company or employers.


As for the quality of the builds, and build discussions, there has been a bit of a plateau in the technology, and finding it got easier. Batteries seem stagnant to me now, as the currently popular cells showed up so much lighter and smaller than others. Seems to me after my fire though, the chemistry needs work. But nothing better has appeared in the last few years, while back in 2008-2012 or so, it seemed like a new source or a new chemistry appeared about monthly. After my fire, I just wish lifepo4 as high quality as the old A123's would go into huge scale production. But the lighter smaller cell killed lifepo4 for cars, and that's all it is at the moment.

Some of the great R and D discussion Justin loves so much is NOT discussed. These guys sell this stuff now, the hobby is now a business, and I doubt they want to discuss latest design improvements anymore. Justin is the one exception to this, even though his designs do get copied, or at least imitated. That's inevitable, but most don't want to shorten the time it takes their competitor to do it.

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by arkmundi » Nov 09 2018 9:19pm

dogman dan wrote:
Oct 03 2018 7:42am
... Batteries seem stagnant to me now, as the currently popular cells showed up so much lighter and smaller than others. Seems to me after my fire though, the chemistry needs work. But nothing better has appeared in the last few years, while back in 2008-2012 or so, it seemed like a new source or a new chemistry appeared about monthly. After my fire, I just wish lifepo4 as high quality as the old A123's would go into huge scale production. But the lighter smaller cell killed lifepo4 for cars, and that's all it is at the moment....
I visit rarely now. But every once in a while, like now. What I like, and why I'm here now, is I used ES as a public diary, detailing all kinds of useful information as I did some builds. That info is here, not on my computer or any where else. So I come because ES is my memory all things eBike.

I'm on this thread because as long as I'm here, I should search for A123 and see if anything new has transpired. Used to be we had some A123 insiders providing us tips.

To answer your quip: A123 never went away as a company - it was bought be a Chinese company. You can buy new, fully backed cells from http://a123batteries.com/online-store/ . They stock:
  • 20 Ah Nanophosphate Prismatic Pouch - AMP20M1HD-A
  • ANR26650 Lithium Ion Cylindrical Cell - ANR26650M1-B
  • APR18650 Lithium Ion Cylindrical Cell - APR18650M1-B
And they are in full scale production. The company that owns A123 is also producing electric cars for the Asian market.

There may be better battery technology coming along in the near future, but for now, A123 still holds an edge. I'm still running on the 48V 20ah pack I built 4 years ago and there is no apparent degradation at all!

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Re: Changes in the Endless Sphere Community

Post by Dauntless » Nov 10 2018 3:13am

Dogman talking of the changes in his own life, argh, mine has been rough.

When I registered I'd just had spinal decompression and not so much a new world as a whole old world reopened to me, so I was active again. I pulled everything out of my garage to decide what to get rid of, I carried every piece of old television equipment out to the driveway to take a picture for a production messageboard where we were talking about the old useless analog junk we still had. I was getting busier on old mopeds and scooters and experimenting with electrics. . . .

. . . .Until I hurt my shoulder. For months the longest I slept would be maybe 90 minutes, until I moved in my sleep and woke up in agony. At the end of a year I had some use of it back; then came the allergy attack that didn't so much last 18 months as it made me sensitive to to any little cold, hayfever, dramatic change in the weather, etc. Just sick for a few months instead of a few days. Therefore I hadn't much touched the junk bikes for a few years. When I spend the night at relatives on a recliner that was hard on my back, there went another 6 months because I couldn't bend over or squat, etc. I had just posted a question here about freewheel problems on a bike I was working on. Dang, I never did get back to that one.

And as I was getting active again, there was an accident, and it seemed half my body had been dislocated. I couldn't walk, but we're dealing with Doug, here, so I still did. A month into this I was so bad in public there was this cop there saying "If you pass out you'll wake up in the hospital." It would have been a relief to pass out. But the paramedics came and I declined the trip to the hospital because they'd just have given me drugs. The whole emergency was I was in such pain and couldn't walk, but to escape painkillers, I walked. For the second time in my life they were talking hip replacement, for the second time, NO!

Hard to believe all that today. I'm largely pain free, just still some problems moving. But I can even sort of run again. I'm trying to get up the nerve to try some serious bike riding, it didn't go well earlier this year when I had car trouble but I'm better now.

Ah, all that means is that nothing much has changed. I've always been a wildman, you should know the broken bones, etc. when I'm 70-80 I'm planning to be running around much the same. Whether I'm able to or not.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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