The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 3 and scientific studies prove it!

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by neptronix » Jul 05 2019 6:13pm

Speaking of the opposite case, there are people who cannot metabolize fat or cholesterol. These people's blood typically looks like this:

Image

Image

If that doesn't send a chill down your spine, i don't know what will.
I think your starchivore friend who had a stroke at 18 may be one of these people.

I find metabolic variation super interesting. It gets even weirder than familial hypercholesterolemia and diabetes.. there is also a disorder where people cannot tolerate protein which is probably the worst issue you could possibly have. I forget the name of it..
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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by Grantmac » Jul 05 2019 8:51pm

Nep,

It sounds like my body runs in a very similar, although less extreme, way to yours.

Eating carbs equals endless hunger and zero energy. Really a miserable experience.

From what I've seen the vast majority of humans are like this. Enough so that it's clearly how our biology has evolved. The obesity epidemic is proof positive of this.

France eats very low carb with a version of intermittent fasting and has some of the lowest first world obesity numbers despite other risk factors.

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by Sunder » Jul 06 2019 3:20am

neptronix wrote:
Jul 05 2019 6:13pm
Speaking of the opposite case, there are people who cannot metabolize fat or cholesterol. These people's blood typically looks like this:
Funny you should mention that, recently there was some research that suggested that just like your insulin response determines your glucose clearance rate, there is something that determines your fat clearance rate. And for both, if it takes too long, it can increase your chance of a cardiovascular event.

Unfortunately the source I read was some pretty dumbed down material fit for mass media consumption. The summary was that just like oils ain't oils, (not even sure if you guys got that ad campaign or are old enough to remember it!) Carbs are carbs either. Apparently your glucose clearance rate isn't a 1 for 1 match in terms of decomposing and metabolising carbs of different chain length. So some carbs might be safe for you to eat, but others not.

Honestly that makes little sense to me, because I understand that there is only two sugars the body can absorb directly: Glucose and Fructose. All other sugars and carbs need to be broken down into one of those two before they can be used. The only way that could make sense is if how the chains being broken down to those sugars is different according to gut flora, or genetics?

I'd love to read the original research, but have not been able to find it.

Anyway, I find a low carb, high fat high protein deit works best for me, especially for losing visceral fat, which raisrs my cholesterol and I suspect impairs my kidney performance. (At least, my eGFR went up a few points when I lost 7kg.)

I think everyone may need to find their own roght diet, but the standard western diet probably isn't the right one for too many people.
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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 06 2019 7:44am

Nep
Thanks for all the details.
I sure did lose weight when my thyroid was hyper :twisted:
Seems normal now; no more meds 8)
I see why Dr's just hand out pills. Takes lots of time to really figure out what is going on with each patient. I sure don't know why you are so different. But if you can go to work during all that, you have a big advantage over me, I was stuck home :( for decades :(
until now :)
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by Grantmac » Jul 06 2019 12:00pm

Sunder,

Only the liver can metabolise fructose. That's why it's so harmful. Every other tissue in the body can use glucose and indeed muscles run best on it (but not as much as you'd think).
Consumption of fructose causes fat around the liver because of this, which is a large part of insulin insensitivity and accompanying stomach fat.

Which is why I heartily support taxes on high fructose corn syrup.

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by marty » Jul 06 2019 8:50pm

neptronix wrote:
Jul 01 2019 12:24pm
ketosis. acetone-smelling the urine, paint stripper,
acetone urine = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketonuria

What color is your pee? Are you pregnant?

You can tell a lot about health from looking at pee and poop. Wife's father / Black poop / Dead the next day. Guess that was something serious? That was my first experience watching someone die. Called the funeral guys. I said ya better do some tests to be sure he's dead. Funeral guy checked him out. I said are you sure he's dead? Funeral guy said "Haven't had one come back yet."

My chickens are gone. I am sad. Neighbor complained to the Building Department. Took them to live on a farm. Working on getting a new house. Will get new chickens. Bought 36 eggs from BJ's. Just ate a onion and mozzarella cheese omelet. Got 1 double yolk egg. That's a first for me.

Every time I would buy chicken food. About $10 for 50 pounds. I would wonder, if people lived in a cage and ate 50 pound bags of food? What would the scientists and doctors feed the people? Same as the chickens the main goal of feeding animals/humans is to make them healthy, strong, productive, so they reproduce and live happy.
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2 types of type 2 diabetes EXPLAINED

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 07 2019 1:50am

Nep
You may find this interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI3IIXP ... ex=21&t=0s
I'm going to get c-peptide, liver and kidney function tests every few years to track the decline rate. The medical system does NOT do this because they make $ on sickness NOT health.
Say my c-peptide is now 2, and it goes to 1.9 in 5 years, that is not too bad. BUT if it goes to 1.5 that would be alarming and i would research how to slow the decline.
Well, that is ME; others seem to have a death wish, and will get to their goal, SOONER rather than later.
High fat, high protein diets are know for a shorter life span. BUT having short term benefits. Why not watch the decline and switch out before it is too late? Death wish? Really? How soon do you want to die?
.
THE 2 TYPES OF TYPE 2 DIABETES
80% are overweight- the body gets to a certain level and refuses to add more fat to storage. Blood glucose soars! When these people get back to normal weight, glucose returns to normal.
The other 20% that are slim, like me, have fat clogging their muscle cells, so glucose can't get in, and blood glucose is higher than normal. My type has to avoid saturated and MUSF fat in the diet, so excess gets used up, and muscle cell function returns to normal 8) This explains how the different fats clog or not clog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snc4olJ_4xI
.
Nep wrote:
'any excersize is out of the question' sounds like a self imposed death sentence.. i'm sure you feel a crapton better getting moving. '
No. that was the problem. There was almost no nutrient supply to my muscles. I would just get injured. Textbook case of T2D. Was mis-diagnosed as CFS Chronic Fatigue :roll: Thank goodness eliminating saturated and monounsaturated fats now allows glucose into my cells! NOW i feel ALIVE again 8)



GrantMac
Check out this more likely cause of fatty liver disease:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrYI9f2MARg
Last edited by Matt Gruber on Jul 07 2019 7:54am, edited 1 time in total.
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by bigmoose » Jul 07 2019 7:49am

Early on the thread spoke of vitamin supplements. Thought I would share my journey over the winter with a kidney and 8 bladder stones...

About two years ago, I thought I would start taking vitamin C regularly. A good antioxidant and supposedly helps prevent colds and such. A older (75 years) friend was taking 4000 mg a day and doing quite well.

I started at 1000mg a day for a year, then 6 months ago went up to 2000mg a day split morning and evening. I was trying to get through the cold winter without a cold, flu or respiratory infection. Well within two days of my birthday in January at 4 am I urinated a pee that looked exactly like a CocaCola, dark brown. Scared the bee jeeevers out of me, and started the medical journey.

Found out I had a 14mm kidney stone impacted in the duct out of my left kidney, and quantity (8) 8mm stones in my bladder. Took two operations/procedures to get all this kr_p out of me. Started with shock wave lipotripsy procedure to mostly crush the 14mm stone, then 6 weeks later a homium laser procedure to finish off the remaining 7mm chunk of it.

When all was said and done, and the debris analyzed, it was determined that my stones were calcium oxalate. Doc told me that oxalate was a by product of vitamin C breakdown.

So in my attempt to be healthier, with supposed safe, over the counter vitamins, I had put myself in grave danger... I had heard about this type of problem, but never thought it significant. I was wrong.

I removed most all of my supplements, and significantly increased my plain water intake in response. Doing much better this summer.
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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by Grantmac » Jul 07 2019 12:25pm

Highest life expectancies are among countries who consume large quantities of fatty fish and meats with very little fruit.

Likely if France didn't drink so much wine they'd be up there with Switzerland and Japan (which is crashing due to americanized diet and overwork). Franch people fast and consume fats with wild abandon.

There is no real science supporting fructose being a healthy means of fuelling the body. Just wait for data to come out from the aftermath of the "juicing" craze that hit a while ago. Never was I so fat and unfit as when I was drinking my calories, even the "healthy" ones I could barely choke down.

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by Punx0r » Jul 07 2019 1:16pm

bigmoose wrote:
Jul 07 2019 7:49am

So in my attempt to be healthier, with supposed safe, over the counter vitamins, I had put myself in grave danger... I had heard about this type of problem, but never thought it significant. I was wrong.
Glad you're recovered bigmoose. Unfortunately there is a lot of quackery involved with nutritionists, health gurus, diet fadists and "wellness" fools and food supplements are very poorly regulated compared to medicenes. The RDA for vit C is only 60mg, yet mega-dosing is fashionable as a cureall on the basis of a if a little is good, lots must be better.

Eat a balanced, varied diet, don't have anything to excess get a little exercise and most of us will be healthy :)

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by Sunder » Jul 07 2019 5:02pm

Grantmac wrote:
Jul 06 2019 12:00pm
Sunder,

Only the liver can metabolise fructose. That's why it's so harmful. Every other tissue in the body can use glucose and indeed muscles run best on it (but not as much as you'd think).
Consumption of fructose causes fat around the liver because of this, which is a large part of insulin insensitivity and accompanying stomach fat.

Which is why I heartily support taxes on high fructose corn syrup.
Yes, I understand that, but it's not the mechanism I was referring to. For example, no organs - not even the liver, can metabolise Lactose. It must be broken down by lactase in the small intenstine into glucose and galactose - glucose with one bond reversed.

What I was referring to, is that the study showed that for one person, a particular type of complex carbohydrate would send their blood sugar skyrocketing, where as a second type would show a normal rise and fall. For a second person, the reverse would happen.

That's about the end of my knowledge in that area, so I am totally speculating here. But let's say two different carbohydrates were broken down with different enzymes or microbiota before their absorption. If two people had different ratios of those enzymes or bacteria it stands to reason that they would get broken at different rates before they could be used, resulting in glucose and fructose hitting the bloodstream at different rates.

TL:DR, I don't think it's as simple as calorie in, calorie out, or even "avoid carbs" or "avoid fats".
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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 09 2019 9:31am

Obesity is explained by Dr McDougall-
You hungry guys simply did not eat enough pasta, potatoes, corn and rice.
Instead you eat calorie dense beef, chicken, pork, cheese and olive oil. And get fat :roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sBrA62J43g&t=5s
I learned about hunger when i needed to lose just 2 lbs. SURE i did get hungry! That is the price to pay for overeating! There is no way to lose weight without dealing with hunger. The best idea i've heard is to eat the EXACT same calories needed to maintain a steady weight, BUT for 4 days. THEN water fast for 3 days to lose weight. After the 1st day the hunger goes away as the body switches to stored fat. (which is what you keto guys claim to like) You are not starving; you are FAT and can't starve.
Continue with the 4/3 routine for months or years if you are obese until you are slim. And yes, you can do 5/2 for slower loss or 3/4 for faster loss. You enjoyed pigging out, now find yourself a new hobby or 2.
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by neptronix » Jul 09 2019 10:51am

Matt Gruber wrote:
Jul 09 2019 9:31am
Obesity is explained by Dr McDougall-
You hungry guys simply did not eat enough pasta, potatoes, corn and rice.
Instead you eat calorie dense beef, chicken, pork, cheese and olive oil. And get fat :roll:
Pasta, potatoes, corn, and rice were staples of my diet when i was in the vegetarian and vegan phase. I also ate tons of vegetables and soy. I experienced the fastest weight gain of my life and T2D was showing it's face. I was so out of it with brain fog that my memories of that period of time are fuzzy. Luckily i took pictures.
IMG_5951.JPG
Here is a picture from 2013 of what i pulled out of my cabinet to donate when i decided to give keto a try. Trail mix with dehydrated fruit, rice, rice, more rice, craptons of pasta, all organic "healthy grains cereal", all organic rice cakes, etc. Behind all the starch, you see cans of organic corn and beans.
progress-2016.jpg
These pictures are outdated but i look like a slightly leaner and more muscular version of what's on the right today. The more i based my diet around meat, the stronger and leaner i got.

One thing you should know is that livestock are fed this same diet as a means of increasing their slaughter weight, because they get fatter. Birds like ducks and geese are also force fed corn products so that their livers build fatty deposits, and that's how we get foie gras.

Occasionally an animal does not respond to this type of diet by getting fatter. You can look up homesteading forums and see this complaint frequently. The animal in question is likely a metabolic outlier.

Image

Here is a hyper responder to a carbohydrate based diet, reaching for the ultimate carbohydrate product in a desperate bid to fuel their energy starved diabetic body - high fructose corn syrup. If this person doesn't have fatty liver, or it's higher expression, steatohepatitis yet, i'd be shocked. If this person was a farm animal, they'd be ideal. Foie gras, anyone?

McDougall seems to think that what worked for him will work for everyone. Yet he had a stroke at 18 years old, and found that his body falls apart when he puts fat and cholesterol into it. He is the farm animal that doesn't gain weight. Coincidentally, people like McDougall already designed the western world's food pyramids. a McDougall diet swaps the position of veggies/fruit with grains, and takes the meat out. In terms of macronutrients, the product of George McGovern and Ancel Keys' twisting of science in the 1960's, which started the cascade of diabetes and obesity in the United States.

Image

..and you know, correlation is not causation, but it sure is interesting how, when you progressively remove fat and protein from children's diets, and replace it with grains, soy, and corn products, they just get fatter, just like the farm animals do.

Image
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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by neptronix » Jul 09 2019 10:59am

Grantmac wrote:
Jul 05 2019 8:51pm
It sounds like my body runs in a very similar, although less extreme, way to yours.
Eating carbs equals endless hunger and zero energy. Really a miserable experience.
From what I've seen the vast majority of humans are like this. Enough so that it's clearly how our biology has evolved. The obesity epidemic is proof positive of this.
I have talked to hundreds of people who weren't fat, but went on a ketogenic diet anyway, and one thing i kept hearing is that they used to eat small portions constantly, and always felt hungry. The difference between me is that my body wanted to store that glucose in the form of fat instead of utilize it, but the other metabolic effects are similar.

I thought that my metabolism was super weird, and that i had a special problem.. until i started hearing these kinds of reports..
Grantmac wrote:
Jul 05 2019 8:51pm
France eats very low carb with a version of intermittent fasting and has some of the lowest first world obesity numbers despite other risk factors.
I dunno if France really eats low carb, but they never took to the idea that saturated fat is bad, and they eat a lot of traditional foods, so you'll find vegetables swimming in butter, and bread being used as a side, instead of a main course. I think it's likely that their diet is low enough in carbohydrate that a person somewhere on the spectrum of being like me doesn't have their insulin resistance stoked.
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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 09 2019 11:18am

McDougall had a stroke at 18 eating the SAD ( std american diet). ( very similar in fat content to keto)
That is where all keto fans have the most risk- heart disease.
kudos to MacDougall for changing from keto to plant based. 8)
and learning to deal with these changes, which i'm doing myself, and admit there is quite a learning curve.
I use pasta to gain/lose/maintain weight, just like i once did with peanut butter. The hunger disappears with either, BUT it takes 15-30 minutes, so i push away from the table,.......go brush my teeth, and wash the kitchen, and by then, the hunger is ALWAYS gone.
Anyone can gain weight if they pig out. I am not impressed with those that overeat. I know it is hard sometimes, but i do what i have to do; no excuses accepted. Do you push away from the table? Learn to do this and weight gain won't happen.
Last edited by Matt Gruber on Jul 09 2019 11:37am, edited 2 times in total.
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Re: Americans have the most expensive urine in the world!

Post by neptronix » Jul 09 2019 11:27am

Sunder wrote:
Jul 07 2019 5:02pm
TL:DR, I don't think it's as simple as calorie in, calorie out, or even "avoid carbs" or "avoid fats".
If you won the genetic lottery and don't have the fat storage gene, it is as simple as 'calories in, calories out'. This is a cause for a lot of dietary confusion - what works for me must also work for you, ignoring the fact that this country is a gangbang of different genetic groups who faced manner of different selective pressures throughout their lineage..

The fat storage gene is a survival mechanism of yore, from the days before year round food availability. People who were last to adopt what we consider civilization today have the strongest expression of the fat storage gene. I'm sure you've noticed that people who come from somewhere near the equator line or islands with limited food supplies are fairly lean in their home environments, but the second they hit American soil, they tend to get fat with rapidity and then develop type 2 diabetes.

It's scientifically ignorant to an extreme to even claim that there is one diet that's optimal for a group of human beings whose genetics come from an extremely diverse set of climes and conditions. Even in the monkey world, monkeys thrive on diverse diets - they range from primarily carnivorous, to nearly exclusively frugivore. And we are something like 99.9% genetically similar to those monkeys..

..but nutrition science and all the people who get to stand on the mainstream podium all preach the one monkey diet.
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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by neptronix » Jul 09 2019 11:28am

Matt Gruber wrote:
Jul 09 2019 11:18am
McDougall had a stroke at 18 eating the SAD ( std american diet). (keto)
SAD has the literal opposite macronutrient balance as a ketogenic diet, so no.

I'm pretty sure you're trolling at this point... i will now leave this thread because i know where this conversation goes based on our past interactions.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

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The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 09 2019 11:32am

neptronix wrote:
Jul 09 2019 11:28am
Matt Gruber wrote:
Jul 09 2019 11:18am
McDougall had a stroke at 18 eating the SAD ( std american diet). (keto)
SAD has the literal opposite macronutrient balance as a ketogenic diet, so no.

I'm pretty sure you're trolling at this point... i will now leave this thread because i know where this conversation goes based on our past interactions.
You said you won't post on my topic. You are coming here because you want me to convince you not to die. Just have an angiogram and see how much fat is clogging. A clog will break off and cause a stroke or massive heart attack :roll: I tried. Goodbye.
Last edited by Matt Gruber on Jul 09 2019 12:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by Grantmac » Jul 09 2019 12:11pm

The SAD is exactly opposite to keto. Long lived countries are closer, so long as they resist americanization of their foods. Even the pasta and bread loving Italians don't consume carbs like Americans.
Insulin resistance makes losing weight via eating at a deficit virtually impossible long term. Hence why there are no reunion episodes of "Biggest Loser".

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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 09 2019 12:18pm

Grantmac wrote:
Jul 09 2019 12:11pm
The SAD is exactly opposite to keto. Long lived countries are closer, so long as they resist americanization of their foods. Even the pasta and bread loving Italians don't consume carbs like Americans.
Insulin resistance makes losing weight via eating at a deficit virtually impossible long term. Hence why there are no reunion episodes of "Biggest Loser".
Keto has taken america by storm. It is NOW the SAD, since about 2010. Nobody eats a balanced diet anymore. Anything with over 15 or 20% fat causes the #1 killer- heart disease. While a "low fat" diet was recommended in the 1980's virtually NOBODY adopted it. I KNOW because i tried. I went from 43% fat to 32% fat and that was not anywhere close to what it takes for good health. (now i'm 7-10%)
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

Grantmac   1 kW

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Location: Victoria, BC

Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and kidney stones (bigmoose)

Post by Grantmac » Jul 09 2019 12:44pm

The SAD is higher carb now than every before. Even during the cholesterol panic it wasn't this bad.

BTW there is zero link between cholesterol consumption and heart disease. Carbs on the other hand have links to everything from cancer to arthritis.

The leading longevity doctor in the US will not permit more than 100g of carbs daily, even for performance athletes.

Matt Gruber   1 MW

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Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 - great video with details

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 09 2019 3:34pm

Back to the topic
How to reverse diabetes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4UhVInyfoY
i just bought 12# of bananas, 7 mangoes, 2# cherries and grapes too.
see how this works in the video, with scientific studies 8)
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 - great video with details

Post by Sunder » Jul 09 2019 5:31pm

Matt Gruber wrote:
Jul 09 2019 3:34pm
Back to the topic
How to reverse diabetes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4UhVInyfoY
i just bought 12# of bananas, 7 mangoes, 2# cherries and grapes too.
see how this works in the video, with scientific studies 8)
I don't usually use "Ad hominem" attacks on people, preferring to discuss the idea than to attack the source. However, in a field where there is no consensus between reputable scientists, disreputable ones, I prefer to not even waste my time on.

I'm 90% sure it's the same guy, but Cyrus Khambatta is a known ethical vegan. This doesn't make him wrong, but someone on a Keto forum showed him saying that even if it was worse for you, he'd still recommend avoiding animal products. The same poster then showed several of his claims which have been "disproven" by mainstream science.

Unfortunately, the whole low carb vs low fat debate has been "infiltrated" by extremist vegans intentionally spreading mistruths. The "One egg a day is as bad for you as smoking five cigarettes" has been repeatedly debunked, but still quoted as fact (as much as you can debunk a claim that has no backing to it at all. I.e. if I wrote a study that said that eBikes cause cancer, and showed my experiments, you can prove errors or assumptions I made. If I just claimed that it did without a study, you'd have a much harder time "Debunking" me.)

So my defacto stance now now is that if a vegan suggests that animal products are bad for me, I'll assume they are using poor science or intentional mistruths until proven otherwise (Yes, it is a kind of ad hominen attack, but with the volumes of conflicting information is so great, if you don't filter, you get overwhelmed and are just gullible). If the majority of the material I saw from Vegans were of academic standard, I could accept that they have an agenda, but were worth listening to, but the intentional deception by so many, has turned me off them as a reliable source.

The gold standard for me is either meta analyses by major universities, or the very, very rare controlled large scale experiments (Rare, because it's so expensive to control people's food intake for long enough to be meaningful. E.g. it's known that saturated fat temporarily raises blood cholesterol, but even the evidence that elevated FASTING cholesterol is dangerous is correlative. Evidence that temporarily raised blood cholesterol contributes to CHD is closer to speculative).

I biohack. I record my resting heart rate, heart rate variability, sleep quality and blood pressure multiple times a week. I record my cholesterol and blood sugars along with other markers such as kidney and liver performance, twice a year. The amount I exercise, the stress I am under, how I am eating, is all broadly recorded and correlated. High Fat, Low Carb (Not fully keto, I target 50g of Carbs a day) works. My blood pressure is down, and after an initial spike in cholesterol, that too fell. Kidney function rose slightly, though within normal variabilities, and there was no change to liver function.

I do try to get more of my fat from healthy sources (plant and fish), because Harvard said that saturated fats had roughly the same correlative risk of CHD as carbs, so maybe that's why it works better for me than for others. But I also try to avoid too much processed meat - not for the saturated fats, but for the nitrates, salt and trans-fats, which are also known to be correlated to CHD.

Anyway. It's been a long post, and one people get emotional and defensive about. Some people curiously overly. I can understand if that if they carry a hidden agenda about animal welfare, but have also seen Keto'ers get very upset. Makes no sense to me. Unless it's someone I love, they can eat whatever they want, and be any health they want. I don't accept that people have a duty to keep their load on public healthcare down (Hey, if I am hit by a car while on an eBike, I don't want anyone to be saying I'm costing the health system), I don't accept that people have an obligation to "look good" in public (If someone 24st wants to wear a crop top and hot pants, I have no objection). But by the same token, don't ask me to find that attractive either.

Live and let die, I say.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

Grantmac   1 kW

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Posts: 499
Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and scientific studies prove it!

Post by Grantmac » Jul 09 2019 5:56pm

One of the leading experts in longevity:
https://peterattiamd.com/is-sugar-toxic/

This is less about sugar and far more about the difficulty of conducting controlled diet experiments.

Matt Gruber   1 MW

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Joined: Feb 08 2007 11:02am
Location: New Smyrna Beach FL

Re: The 2 types of type 2 diabetes explained and how to reverse - page 2 and scientific studies prove it!

Post by Matt Gruber » Jul 10 2019 5:02am

I'm going to call them all the:
DIE SOONER DIET :shock: south beach, keto, atkins, paleo,carnivore, all the high fat/protein, low carbers like SAD, SURE they each change a few things to sell books, but the end result is the same. Heart disease, kidney failure, liver failure, diabetes, auto-immune diseases,...................DEATH.
check out what 6 years did to this young woman on a DIE SOONER DIET
near kidney failure she wised up just in time 8) Will Nep catch on in time :?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pi0radyAxw
she found the truth and saved her life :bigthumb:
.
PS I'm eating all that fruit, and i feel great! :bigthumb:
Converted window AC's to central system.
Reversed type 2 diabetes and hyperthyroid by limiting calories from fat to 7%. Thanks to Dr Mcdougall, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Barnard, Dr Greger, Dr Ornish and Nathan Pritikin. (all on YouTube)
Favorite foods: corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, cabbage, broccoli, lintels, black beans, mushrooms, cherries, mangoes, bananas, pineapples, blueberries, strawberries, pasta, home made rolls and no-fat chips.

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