The status quo of electric cars: better batteries same range

Did you guys see this write up, really opens your eyes to how we are fighting a losing battle.

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/52736

"Electric motors and batteries have improved substantially over the past one hundred years, but today's much hyped electric cars have a range that is - at best - comparable to that of their predecessors at the beginning of the 20th century. Weight, comfort, speed and performance have eaten up any real progress. We don't need better batteries, we need better cars".

Basically, battery technology has to improve faster then peoples desire to burn more energy. Until it does, most people will shun it.

Deron.

Well, with the price of gas being said to go back down a few cents this summer, I can understand some pessimisim. Jack the price up to say 6-8 bucks a gallon and everybody will start looking at a 100 mile range EV as a pretty good way to go. 100 mile range is not so much a problem, as the number that is practical. That's 100 mile range in an epa test though, so as always cut all range claims in half.

If they expect batteries to improve to the point where it's cheaper and better energy density than fossil fuels, it will be a long wait for it. But even if batteries don't get hugely cheaper, I bet they get better in the future. Better c rates is already happening, and presumably that will help make em last more cycles, and make pretty quick partial charges practical for when you find yourself running short on the way home. Topping back up to 80% won't take the time of a fully balanced 100% charge.

What I really don't see is the attitude that there's no difference between a 1903 electric car and a 2010 one just because both get built to go 100 miles. Ok, so power steering and AC or heat will cost you range, but do you see any of that on the 1903 model? Drive a nissan leaf at the same 20 mph max speed of the 1903 car and I bet it gets a better watts per mile.

But as long as we can afford it, we'll continue to drive the biggest fastest most status enhancing vehicle possible. We'll cut all kinds of stuff out of the budget to afford the status car. So the real problem is us, not battery technology.

Thats like saying a 1915 Ford Model-T and new Ford Focus both ONLY get 300 miles per tank (so, clearly there's been no improvement). The Nissan Leaf's first year of production is already pre-sold. Perhaps not the perfect car for every situation,...but there is a pent-up demand.

I like what the Top-Gear commentator said about the electric car he was testing, something along the lines of "so what if it only gets 100 miles per charge, every morning the tank is always full!" My wife and I have a 4-door sedan and a truck. I suppose I could say that when I need to pick up some lumber, it wont fit in the sedans tiny trunk (PS, take the other vehicle).

Its true that over 90% of trips, my wife and I drive less than 60 miles a day whether to work or on the weekends to stores. Personally, I would like a Nissan Leaf and a bio-diesel truck. I know some people drive very far each day for their job, but NOBODY is saying that a 100-mile EV is perfect for everyone or every situation.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11892

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13373

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14344&start=0

Today's electric cars go a lot faster too. Surely that must count for something? And if quick charging stations were more available than the car can be charged while you eat your lunch.

dogman makes some great points here
a good majority of americans are getting fat and lazy i know i work with some of them
to many young people just do the minimum amount of work to keep from getting fired
they are going to be minimum earners the rest of their lifes
as long as the gov keeps raising the min wage
jobs will continue to be outsourced to other countries where people are willing to work
to sell an electric car in the usa nowadays you had better build it with seats large enough for some pretty heavy folks
and it has to have an air conditioner fat people dont like to sweat

oh and for me to buy one it would have to have a kick ass audio system
well better than my mp3 player and ear buds at least

More than one car has been bought just because of the stereo.

Everything in America is getting redesigned for fatties. I noticed the other day all the fast food places are going back to loose chairs that fatties can put 3-4 feet from the table top if they need to. Back when I built fast food places for a living 20 years ago, everything was set in concrete and sized for normal people. Nowdays they can't even fit into the booth seating! Tables too close.

They won't like an electric car, high dollar lithium would perform like old wet lead batteries when you put the 500 pound person aboard. Shave 500 pounds off the battery and then turn around an put in a 500 pound driver. They'll need a v8 if there is two of em.

The recipe is simple. Slow down, and you have 200 miles of range.

Except, as long as petrol or some comparable fuel is prevalent, I don't ever expect that to happen on the highways. (Going slow in the city doesn't really matter as much since most energy is spent on stopping and starting.)

Yeah the E-cars today are way better then the older ones, but every year people want more and more. More accessories, more power, more range... Every time there is a new invention, people have to have it in their car. Flat screens are a perfect example of one of the newer ones. Gotta have one for each of the kids to babysit them. Gotta have it for the GPS display, the stereo...

Battery technology has made some great improvements in the last few years, but will it every be able to keep up with the increasing demands.

Weight is probably the biggest factor. I have always though if I ever build a E-Car from stratch, I would start off with building the lightest possible vehicle. I would build it like some airplanes are built, using as much fiberglass and foam as possible.

I have always seen the E-Cars people convert and wonder why they use such a heavy vehicle to start with. If I was going to convert a vehicle, I would get a fiberglass kit car, maybe one built on a VW pan. That would cut your weight in half from the get go.

Deron.

I don't think GPS, DVD players, lcd screens and all that tech type stuffs weigh much. I think the core of the weight problem is people wanting to feel safer. Everybody has a 3000 pound car, oh ok I'll get a 4000 pound car. Oh look everybody has a 4000 pound car, ok I'll get a 5000 pound car. Oh look, everybody has a 5000 pound car now..

It's not just the things I mentioned, LCD screens, GPS... it's all of them adding up that's the problem. The accessories added to a car can probably approach the weight of half the vehicle. PS, PB, AC, heater, heated seats, electric seats, electric mirrors, tilt steering, headlight wipers, windshield washer and fluid, V8 instead of 4 cyl, turbocharger, intercooler, supercharger...

With people wanting all this crap, where does a battery powered car fit in?

Some peoples stereos could probably cut a E-Cars range in half

I know I ran my battery dead quite a few times with my stereo.

Deron.

I think its more the twelve airbags, safety cages, crush zones.. etc. The requirements for crash safety. Heck they even have safety requirements for your bumper and hoods when you hit pedestrians. As if it is inevitable that you will. Its no wonder the smart for2 mpg sucks so badly. Look at all the regulations they had to comply with. Google pedestrian airbags, you want to talk about unnecessary weight and complexity in the works! You willing to take your chances with an efficient keicar? Tough shit, they are illegal. Even a 5000W stereo isn't going to effect the efficiency of a 2 1/2 ton v8 luxobarge very much.

I think one of the toughest things with a strictly battery powered car is that heating and cooling will have a real impact on range. Of all the conveniences to give up in a modern car, that would be the toughest for me.

geekybiker said:

I think one of the toughest things with a strictly battery powered car is that heating and cooling will have a real impact on range. Of all the conveniences to give up in a modern car, that would be the toughest for me.

Click to expand...

Don't give up.

My dad had a '52 Studebacker with a kerosene heater- so I've been told. Using fossill fuels for heat for an electric car, I feel, is okay as the efficiency is much better for heat than the 18% or so for locomotion. Might get up to 70% efficiency for heat. Cooling now, thats a bit of a different matter.

What I'd like to find is a data base with the curb weight of different car models. If it had the weight of the engine as well, that would be supper.

For heating in very cold climates, I've read blogs from Canadian EV owners who said they warm the car and battery pack while its in the garage and hooked up to the grid. On the road, there is a propane heater/defroster, along with a battery-powered back-up.

They said a battery-pack warming under-pad that uses electricity doesn't drain the pack as much as they thought it would (batteries work better when warm), and thats what they use after coming out of the store when its cold, to warm the pack.

For A/C in the summer...I've got no suggestions...

Well car AC are over built because it must over come the heat blasting in from the front engine. I'm sure we won't need very large BTU AC it it was electric car. Forgot where i read it on this forum but someone mentioned towing a small generator for trips that's longer than the range limit. Unlike the Chevy Volt which you are literally towing a generator around all the time.