Hobbyking Customer Service.

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Marcbot   100 µW

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Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by Marcbot » Oct 31 2010 8:33am

Hello Everybody,

So I have recently placed an order from HobbyKing, let me say that this order was not small, and the payment was supposedly accepted (i paid by Credit Card). However, a few days ater I recieved an e-mail from the company saying that I had to provide a scan of the credit card (blocking out all digits but the last 3). Now, being the not completely mindless person that I am-most of the time at least- I refused to give a scan of my credit card. I feel like this is logical, I don't feel like it is safe to send a scan of my credit card to a company halfway around the world, and either way, my payment was accepted so they should have all the necessary information. When I ask for details about why they want the scan, the HK customer service responds that their risk management department needs it to process and ship my order, which frankly sounds like a load of BS to me.

Basically, I just wanted to see if this has occurred to anyone else or if this is a potential credit card fraud waiting to happen. :x

Thanks in advance,

Marc

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by John in CR » Oct 31 2010 9:45am

What exactly do you think someone is going to do with only the last 4 digits of your credit card number? HK is just trying protect itself by having you prove that you are in fact are the true owner of the card by proving that you have it in your physical possession. It's a perfectly valid request of a customer placing a large initial order, and in no way puts you at any risk.

Thanks for the post though. I didn't know they now take credit cards directly.

John

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by spinningmagnets » Oct 31 2010 11:15am

Place several small orders, spaced out a few weeks apart. Once they are all completed to everyones satisfaction, you can place fairly large orders without any restrictions on HKs part.

You may not know this, but...if products are purchased with a stolen credit card, sometimes the charge is reversed. In that case HK would have shipped a large order to someone who had just started business with them, and then they will have had the payment taken back. My first order, I used PayPal and specified that for this transaction I wanted PP to draw funds from my checking account. It was un-reversable if HK ripped me off, but it went fast and easy with no questions asked.

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by mdd0127 » Oct 31 2010 1:03pm

I wouldn't deal with them again if my balls were on fire and they had the only water in the world. After my whole nightmare of them sending me busted up batteries and acting like it was my fault they don't know to pack a box, someone in China started using my credit card. Payment Asia, their processor, would be shut down by Visa if they were held to their processing agreements. Their security, organization, customer service shipping/packing policies, and business ethics are the worst I've EVER seen.

By purchasing ANYTHING from HobbyKing, YOU ARE DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE PEOPLE'S LIBERATION ARMY of China which is well known for it's respect of human rights ;) . If a business is in operation in China, they are paying taxes to the Chinese government and if you guys think America's government is evil and corrupt, wait until China starts officially running the show! Also, these great prices you think you're getting come at the cost of unchecked environmental destruction, worker exploitation, child labor....it goes on and on. It's inhuman to purchase anything from companies or countries with governments like China's. I would even go so far as to say that educated people from democratic countries that buy things from places like China should be charged with treason against humanity. What if Hitler had the best deal on Lipo? Would you be comfortable giving him money? If you don't see the link, research China a little bit. They make Hitler look like a pussy cat!

Almost all batteries come from Asian countries with questionable practices right now so buying them at all is helping sustain something that should be eliminated but the least you can do is buy them from someone honest that's reselling them. My logic on that, is that they will have purchased in greater quantity from the evil ones, netting them less profit, then the rest of your money at least goes to supporting an honest business or something. We flat out need batteries to reduce our consumption of fossil fuels so we can't just give up and wait for other countries to catch up. We need batteries to prove concepts and designs so that when an honest supplier with integrity hits the scene, the electric revolution can occur. What we need to do for now, is try to limit how much of our money goes to things we don't support. I know there are good people in China that need work too, but frankly, until they stand up to their government and demand integrity, they can sell their crap to people in their own country.

Simple enough?
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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by neptronix » Oct 31 2010 1:35pm

I'm no fan of China's human rights either, but.....
Everything comes from China that we buy here in the states anyway. Pretty much all big name brand stuff is made in China! So if you buy it here, you're paying China's taxes and you're paying the white devil's enormous markup ;)

Yeah, F that. I've been quoted 3x the price at local hobby shops for hobbyking products!! and even more for non-hobbyking brands! ( try $300 for a 40c 5s 5000mAh pack.. )

Part of me *wishes* for the days of cheap oil to end, so that shipping things from China wouldn't be competitive anymore and we'll... gasp... actually have to make things ourselves. Because there's no fighting the current trend.
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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by Jeremy Harris » Oct 31 2010 1:49pm

mdd0127 wrote:I wouldn't deal with them again if my balls were on fire and they had the only water in the world. After my whole nightmare of them sending me busted up batteries and acting like it was my fault they don't know to pack a box, someone in China started using my credit card. Payment Asia, their processor, would be shut down by Visa if they were held to their processing agreements. Their security, organization, customer service shipping/packing policies, and business ethics are the worst I've EVER seen.

By purchasing ANYTHING from HobbyKing, YOU ARE DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE PEOPLE'S LIBERATION ARMY of China which is well known for it's respect of human rights ;) . If a business is in operation in China, they are paying taxes to the Chinese government and if you guys think America's government is evil and corrupt, wait until China starts officially running the show! Also, these great prices you think you're getting come at the cost of unchecked environmental destruction, worker exploitation, child labor....it goes on and on. It's inhuman to purchase anything from companies or countries with governments like China's. I would even go so far as to say that educated people from democratic countries that buy things from places like China should be charged with treason against humanity. What if Hitler had the best deal on Lipo? Would you be comfortable giving him money? If you don't see the link, research China a little bit. They make Hitler look like a pussy cat!

Almost all batteries come from Asian countries with questionable practices right now so buying them at all is helping sustain something that should be eliminated but the least you can do is buy them from someone honest that's reselling them. My logic on that, is that they will have purchased in greater quantity from the evil ones, netting them less profit, then the rest of your money at least goes to supporting an honest business or something. We flat out need batteries to reduce our consumption of fossil fuels so we can't just give up and wait for other countries to catch up. We need batteries to prove concepts and designs so that when an honest supplier with integrity hits the scene, the electric revolution can occur. What we need to do for now, is try to limit how much of our money goes to things we don't support. I know there are good people in China that need work too, but frankly, until they stand up to their government and demand integrity, they can sell their crap to people in their own country.

Simple enough?
What the heck have your, very extreme, political views have to do with what is probably one of the biggest suppliers of RC components in the World?

First off, HK are in Hong Kong, which is a semi-autonomous state. If you want chapter and verse, then ask one of our Chinese members on here (maybe Pengyou) as to just how separate Hong Kong is from China.

Next,have a long, hard, think about what Hobby KIng are doing. They are behaving EXACTLY like any capitalist company operating in a free market (pretty much mimicking every successful Western company). You may not like the fact that they may, possibly, be exploiting cheap labour, but take a look at all the other consumer goods around that we buy. If you can find, for example, clothing, anywhere in the world, that isn't manufactured by exploiting cheap labour, with dubious ethical practices, then you're a better man than me. I've yet to find any truly 'ethical' business practices, and would argue that the very concept of ethics and business are mutually exclusive.

Having said all that, I'd be very wary of using a credit card with HK or any other company around the World that's unfamiliar with normal Western security protocols. I've bought loads from HK and never had a problem (apart from massively increased delivery time, but we know who to blame for that, don't we?). I've always used PayPal though, which is probably the way most people deal with them.

Jeremy
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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by mdd0127 » Oct 31 2010 2:33pm

Yeah...you should have seen the looks on the faces of my friends in the oil business when me, a "regular joe" suggested that gas go to $20 a gallon immediately. At first they thought I was crazy, then when I explained many reasons why it would immediately help our collective situation, I actually think they got it. I explained that parts of the extra cost go to cleaning up the messes we've already made, developing sustainable technology, developing sustainable mass transit systems, etc, and that the increased price would reduce demand and cause people to rethink their consumption practices on a mass scale. You wouldn't see SUV's with one person as much.....unless that one person was doing the grocery pickup for the whole neighborhood...and the SUV was a hybrid with locally produced batteries.

I stressed that the oil and gas companies should look at themselves more as energy companies. Some are doing this but in a seemingly token fashion to tie up development funds. A smart business person would see their supply dwindling and demand increasing exponentially and use that situation to profit enough to reinvest in a business with unlimited supplies before it's too late. It's just flat out common sense business strategy.

It's going to take something like that for the masses to change the way they do things and a lot of people are going to freak out. The ones that are left might actually be worth keeping around and with new sustainable attitudes, there will be plenty to go around. It's really hard knowing all of this stuff and keeping it all inside. I want other good people to at least have the chance to know what's going on but don't want to become a Che about it either. I just have to put a little truth up on the net here and there so I can remain sane and focused. I'd have to say that at lest 90 percent of the people I meet and talk to about anything are so media brainwashed and video game stupified that a real conversation isn't even possible. Most have good hearts though. I hope they figure it out before it's too late.


Jeremy,

I believe that China supplies the materials and manufacturing for HK. And is it Singapore that's handling the shady shipping now?

On the clothes thing. If you're not acting like some drone working 9-5 for a company that's doing things to the world that you don't agree with, there is plenty of time to sew up your own clothes between tending your garden and drawing your designs, or whatever it is that you like to do and sustains you. Fortunately that's not necessary at this point. I don't know about England, but over here, we have thrift stores where wasteful people give their perfectly good clothes away, just to get new ones made by some little bloody fingered kid that have a different pattern on them. It would blow your mind how many American made clothing items you can still find in thrift stores. I haven't bought any new clothes at stores other than underwear and a few pairs of socks in 15 years. There are also many companies all over the world using sustainable methods and local production to produce clothing. They may not be cheap but they will last for years. Do some googling if you're serious. You'll find sustainable alternatives for almost everything you really need. Wouldn't it be neat if all the people in the world grew a conscience and said, "We'll keep wearing the clothes we have until grown people are paid fairly to make them for us!" Quality would increase because increased price would require increased quality, demand would decrease because clothes would last longer and not be so much of a fashion thing(puke). When business, sustainability, and ethics are tied together, the human race will be free. It's as simple as that. If you truly believe that ethics and business are mutually exclusive, you are part of a dying breed. I have dealt with a few members on this board who obviously relate ethics and business. It's the way it should be. If we can't produce and market something without causing harm, we don't need it.

Rant off. Sorry.
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Jeremy Harris   10 GW

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by Jeremy Harris » Oct 31 2010 2:59pm

FWIW, petrol (gasoline in US-speak) is currently around $9 per imperial gallon here (was around $7 or $8 per imperial gallon a year or so ago) and even that price increase has had little or no effect in reducing demand.

We have the same thrift-type stores, but as it happens, I was listening to a BBC (public service radio here) programme yesterday where a Chinese immigrant lady was recounting her tale of having been forced to work in a clothing sweatshop in New York , for pay of around 1 cent per garment, from the age of 5. This lady was relating how she thought of everyday things, like taking a subway ride, in terms of the number of garments she had to finish.

The World is an imperfect place, people have imperfect ethics and, whether we like it or not, price WILL dominate markets. I admire people who take a stance on ethical issues, but have learned over the years that the minority who behave like this make not one jot of difference to the way things turn out. The direction that the World takes is driven by supply and demand, nothing more, nothing less. I wish it were otherwise, but that's just the way it is.

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by knoxie » Oct 31 2010 6:55pm

:roll: not this again

I had no problems with my order from HK and subsequent orders, I have had much worse from UK suppliers and the worst nightmare from a Canadian company, just because you had a problem with HK doenst mean everybody has? and your rant against the Chinese and your suppositions are so wide of the mark and dont forget there are many Asian users on this board that will take great offence at your suppositions and generalisations.

This is not unusual sending scans of credit cards they do this to confirm the person is who they say there are and as someone who had their identity stolen by the simple act of having my birth date published in a newspaper..scammers dont need your credit card to commit fraud? just your name and date of birth that's all they need the rest they can find out on-line.

Again just because you had a bad experience with HK doesn't make them a bad company and if you feel so strongly about the Chinese situation why on earth did you order from there in the first place? don't tell me this deep seated suspicion and bile has swelled up simply because your box of batteries got a little dent in it ?

Its a free world I guess so you are free to express what you like, however there are many very happy users of HK on here as well and now they have warehouses in the US and in Europe so that the shipping issue is a moot point, the world is a mean and vicious place and you need to look no further than the many western oil companies to see how they operate and to see how they crush and pollute countries with debt... for the black gold. its easy to criticise other nations but its total hypocrisy and a double standard.

Oh by the way my batteries are all fine..no dents and work like a charm?? I'm guessing you don't need any batteries? you have so much anger you need to peddle more to burn off some of your frustration :wink:

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by neptronix » Oct 31 2010 8:00pm

Hobbyking has been very good to me, 2 large orders so far. They even cancelled my last order and gave me store credit after a sale occurred 1 hr. later and i wanted to take advantage of it. That's service!!
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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 31 2010 10:43pm

They want to take special precautions to avoid credit card fraud.
Good!
This shouldnt be a bash thread, it should be a responsible seller thread.
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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by dogman dan » Nov 01 2010 12:47pm

I've had no problems really. One pack came with one cell puffy, out of 18 so far. One 3 buck lv warning went poof. Nothing I'd rant about at these prices.

I pay some shipping, because I never order more than 4 bricks to a box. That way they come with lots of packing around em.

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by mdd0127 » Nov 01 2010 1:04pm

knoxie wrote: Again just because you had a bad experience with HK doesn't make them a bad company and if you feel so strongly about the Chinese situation why on earth did you order from there in the first place? don't tell me this deep seated suspicion and bile has swelled up simply because your box of batteries got a little dent in it ?
Hi Knoxie,

Good point. I ordered from them based upon my respect for members of this board who had done business with the company but very likely only reported the good experiences and not the bad. I am in the middle of a very important project with a limited budget and time frame. The batteries from HK were literally a last resort after failures and incorrect estimates from other suppliers. I have made a few small decisions that were against my ethics, or from companies that I haven't had time to fully research on this project simply because I'm trying to get things done quickly. One example is my controller from Lyen. I don't know the factory conditions it was produced in but I know from business dealings alone that he is a good seller so for that reason, I chose to get a controller from him even though it's Chinese. Once the prototype is done and I have more time, and funding, I'll be able to refine the suppliers for the production model to ones that meet my ethical standards.
Also, my rectangular box of batteries was shaped more like a sphere when it got here.

Luke,

They sent me bad stuff, gave me the runaround, and basically blew me off. I wasted a bunch of time trying to deal with them and wasted money on stuff I can't use. They chose their actions. They could have refunded my money and I would have donated the packs to you for destructive testing or something. The consequence is that when I see others possibly getting ripped off or inconvenienced I tell my story to prevent it. HK or their processor compromised my credit card after I ordered from them.


OP,

The guys at Venom seem nice, answer emails, and have some lipo in stock. Maybe give them a try and let someone with a little integrity profit a little by providing you batteries and support instead of giving all of your money straight to China.
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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 01 2010 3:51pm

mdd0127, have you read about Taiwan? I placed an order recntly with Niagara bike parts and most of the parts were marked "made in Taiwan".

I'm not certain of the provenance, (who really can be?) but the parts are very well-made, and the prices seemed very close to the Hong-Kong suppliers. Taiwan is a very large island off the coast of China that remains a democracy with the help of the west, much to the annoyance of the communist Chinese.

JensonUSA has a warehouse in California that stocks many of the same parts as Niagara, but for just a few dollars more per part. Parts arrived in 4 days to Kansas compared to 2 weeks for Niagara.

If trade with China gets cut off, I'm immediately buying a lathe and drill press, and will smelt/cast aluminum cans (Like Thud!)

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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by mdd0127 » Nov 01 2010 5:02pm

Thud is awesome! He's an inspiration. People that can make things are rare these days. People that make sick 2 speed dog boxes for custom e-bikes are 1 in 6.7 billion!

I must admit that I have no experience or knowledge of Taiwan other than a few cool old off brand guitars I've owned were made there. There is some nice stuff coming out of Korea too I hear. I have known there were many things terribly wrong with the way things are for a long time now but really only recently started to put it all together and have found others that are finding the same things I am. My life has been a whirlwind in the last two years, trying to get sustainable on the home front, and building the shop and bike prototype. As soon as things settle down, you can be assured that I will do some research into countries/companies that are doing sustainable manufacturing and then will be able to make intelligent recommendations for sustainable suppliers.

I got to find out about China the hard way...through experience.. which is the only reason I feel compelled to comment about them. Just looking at what they've done in Tibet is enough reason for me to do anything I can to interrupt their income. Add in the fact that their disposable garbage products have flooded the market so badly that I have to search sometimes for weeks to find a quality made item...and that most people can't even afford quality items because they work for places that sell disposable crap, are addicted to buying the disposable crap because it constantly needs to be replaced, and don't get paid enough to live without constantly getting into more debt while the execs are running around in jets so no one cares about their job or knows how to DO anything...and every time I swallow my ethics and buy some Chinese garbage because I can't find a better alternative and don't have time to make one and the damn thing falls apart the first time I use it so I end up making it anyway......arrrrggghhhhh! I know it's all the big greedy US corporation's fault in the first place but since we started it, maybe we can change it? If China wants to keep making our stuff, they should make it better, do it without ruining the planet and exploiting people, then mark it up accordingly and sell it to us. Everyone would benefit.


That's enough geo-environmental-political ranting for a while. Back to the thread....what was it.....HK customer service is being all shady and treating another customer like a criminal....oh yeah that was it.....
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Re: Hobbyking Customer Service.

Post by Marcbot » Nov 01 2010 5:24pm

Goodness guys, this doesn't need to be a flame-off :shock:
I was just wondering if this was their normal business practice, and if they are trust worthy. My line of thought was that they already have the credit card number, all they need now is a picture and they can duplicate it :lol: what might end up happening is that I will cancel the order and make the next one by paypal... Slightly hypocritical but oh well...
Please don't flame on China and Asia in general, anyone in their right mind knows that if they weren't here to do the dirty work, the world would not be where it is today. That's not to say that I agree on their work ethics and whatnot, but let's just keep the flaming to a minimum :wink:

Marc

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A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by The Mighty Volt » Sep 12 2011 12:08pm

.......they made a "Mistake" in my order. They did not include the 45A powerpole inserts I had ordered.

When I contacted them, they told me to re-weigh everything with a digital scales and get back to them.

For openers, I don't have a digital scales, but in addition to this, they included an item that I hadn't ordered, some little thing called a "Never Look Back", a convex reflective surface which allows you to see around behind you at an angle or something.


So If I weighed the lot, they would be like "Yeah, that checks out, sorry".....because I bet this "Never look BAck" gizmo weighs the same as a packet of powerpole inserts.

Pain in the ass, really.

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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by ZOMGVTEK » Sep 12 2011 12:17pm

Thats how these guys roll.
Just one of the costs of low prices, basically.

I received 2 DOA chargers that they refuse to do anything about since they power on, and the 'only' thing wrong is they never start the charge. Its not like i'm using them wrong, I have 2 others that work fine, these just don't work right.

The bottom line is, the chargers were cheap, and they have the best LiPo prices...

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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by vanilla ice » Sep 12 2011 1:33pm

I also have a DOA charger. One out of the three I have. I tried to return it unsuccessfully. Refused shipment even though I used the label they emailed me.. and yet I still buy from them. I guess I fee like zom, the price I got to pay. The "HK Tax." :P

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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by The Mighty Volt » Sep 12 2011 1:40pm

Cheers mate. :D

PITA really though....I can't be arsed buying a digital scale to weigh the stuff.

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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by snowranger » Sep 12 2011 2:04pm

Use a credit card, and dispute the charges if you need to. Seems completely warranted in this situation.

I was getting the runaround with one dud battery last time, and I finally just filed a dispute and got a refund.
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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by DAND214 » Sep 12 2011 2:22pm

A refund is ok.

But then you need to reorder again.

They know you aren't going to just order some powerpole inserts plus shipping.

I hate to order small iems or quanity, cause it costs too much in shipping!

How did you find the
powerpole inserts
on their site?

Dan

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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by NeilP » Sep 12 2011 2:37pm

Have you tried their on line chat with an operative?

They did well for me when I had issues.

I bought 5 hard lipo 4s packs, and one was dude. according to their rules I would have to return it, but I took photos of the pack with a battery medic, and serial number etc,
I pointed out to them that the cost of me sending it back with my postage costs, would cost more than just buying a new pack.

They gave me a refund on the dead pack , so next time when i ordered stuff, I could pay for another pack as replacement..OK not as good as them sending me a new pack immediately, but better than I would have expected, going on by their rules.

get an online cheat going and explain the situation, you may get a result
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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by The Mighty Volt » Sep 12 2011 5:37pm

NeilP wrote:Have you tried their on line chat with an operative?

They did well for me when I had issues.

I bought 5 hard lipo 4s packs, and one was dude. according to their rules I would have to return it, but I took photos of the pack with a battery medic, and serial number etc,
I pointed out to them that the cost of me sending it back with my postage costs, would cost more than just buying a new pack.

They gave me a refund on the dead pack , so next time when i ordered stuff, I could pay for another pack as replacement..OK not as good as them sending me a new pack immediately, but better than I would have expected, going on by their rules.

get an online cheat going and explain the situation, you may get a result
Kind of...I filed an online complaint and got a response, the response was all about weighing the product. I really cannot be arsed. A digi scales is another $10 minimum and I don't need one anyways. They knew what they were doing. Thats why they threw in that stupid mirror thing, so the weights are all even. It took ages for them box the stuff up too, all it was was some lengths of wire and connectors. I hate to moan but its the cute fashion they used. They should have just thrown in some wire or a few extra bullets or something.

@DAND214: HobbyKing are selling some sort of an Anderson, maybe not official, here is the link mate:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _bag_.html

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Kurt   10 kW

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Re: A Bit Annoyed With Hobbyking.....

Post by Kurt » Sep 12 2011 6:17pm

I just received 3 rc lipo chargers and 3 little cell log gizmo's and a bunch of connectors and wire. One of the chargers fan didn't work. On opening the chargers two of the 3 chargers had fake USB ports with a jumper cable and no components on the board to drive the usb. The other had a working usb port. All 3 chargers had QC stickers that said pass :? One of the cell logs screen's went scrambled after 5 min use. I also got that stupid never look back gizmo. Its for bad Asian drivers to stick on the corner of the review mirror :P .

It dose give you the shits but what can you do? I try and order local so if there is a issue you can send it back. Some times I just write it off as its all to hard. Even when you take into account the say 10% loss for dead on arrival, missing, faulty and what not. You are still way in front compared to buying from a local hobby shop. Read all the reviews on anything you are about to buy then you know what faults to look for when you product arrive.

Kurt

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