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Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 3:01am
by jonathanm
Do you have bluetooth switched on? Have you paired the phone and the speedict?

Just wondering - you're a total noob to android, right? Do you know about the "menu" hardware button, right? It brings up options in an app?

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 3:32am
by speedict
Kingfish wrote: Hi Danny

I just did the manual install of the V2 client with info from this thread. Install went fine. I have the device connected to power and temp/speed sensors. When I bring the Speedict eBike app up (V2) it says my ebike device is offline and there is nothing else to do - although it keeps my phone active; doesn't sleep.

I really appreciate your support, KF :)

oh i think we have some misleading information here, actually the android client 2.0 is not official yet (of course you like it and install it we will support), the reason why i posted 2.0 information last time because jonathanm suggested we should have android client for users preview its feature, then i posted the 2.0 information together with its manual.
i will teach you how to pair your speedict ebike, but i think you have problem now because for android client 2.0 to work you need to download and install the firmware 2.0 as well, to install firmware you need via usb and windows, as per my information you still not able to connect speedict with your "64 bits" windows right ?
so even you paired your speedict ebike with my instruction, your speedict ebike still doesn't work because of wrong firmware version installed.
now the situation is, you need to get either virtual machine to install 32bit windows, or get one windows 32 bits pc installed the 2.0 firmware first, other setting you can use android client 2.0 or pc whatever you like ...

i will keep my eye on this forum, don't worry should you have any queries, please post here !

cheers,

danny

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 9:01am
by Kingfish
jonathanm wrote:Do you have bluetooth switched on? Have you paired the phone and the speedict?

Just wondering - you're a total noob to android, right? Do you know about the "menu" hardware button, right? It brings up options in an app?
Ah HA: The proverbial right-mouse-click! Another dimension into this world opens before me… 8) :lol:

speedict wrote:
Kingfish wrote: Hi Danny

I just did the manual install of the V2 client with info from this thread. Install went fine. I have the device connected to power and temp/speed sensors. When I bring the Speedict eBike app up (V2) it says my ebike device is offline and there is nothing else to do - although it keeps my phone active; doesn't sleep.

I really appreciate your support, KF :)

oh i think we have some misleading information here, actually the android client 2.0 is not official yet (of course you like it and install it we will support), the reason why i posted 2.0 information last time because jonathanm suggested we should have android client for users preview its feature, then i posted the 2.0 information together with its manual.
i will teach you how to pair your speedict ebike, but i think you have problem now because for android client 2.0 to work you need to download and install the firmware 2.0 as well, to install firmware you need via usb and windows, as per my information you still not able to connect speedict with your "64 bits" windows right ?
so even you paired your speedict ebike with my instruction, your speedict ebike still doesn't work because of wrong firmware version installed.
now the situation is, you need to get either virtual machine to install 32bit windows, or get one windows 32 bits pc installed the 2.0 firmware first, other setting you can use android client 2.0 or pc whatever you like ...

i will keep my eye on this forum, don't worry should you have any queries, please post here !

cheers,

danny
I have Virtual PC in use for testing my deployments on old 32-bit and previous IE-versions handy. Going that route now...

ADDENDUM: Phone Firmware version is 2.2.1.
~KF

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 12:04pm
by grindz145
Speedict is so slick....just wish it went to 100V! I run nearly everything at 20S...

Keep it up KF!~

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 4:16pm
by Kingfish
Whew! <wipe brow>

OK - last of the wiring was done yesterday.

Last of the sewing was just finished. I won't win any awards, but the cover (Version 5) for this trailer is DONE. It looks best from a distance :| :lol: although it is slippery. If I had more time... I dunno; I did the best that I could with the materials and tools that I had, and given that I was running out of zip-ties. Actually it literally looks like a slipper, just not one that I would wear. Originally I was kinda thinking it reminds me of the vehicle that brought me to this world - sans the flagellum drive unit of course :wink: Why it came out this way I guess is one of Life's little mysteries.

Anyways - all that is left to do is ... leave.

To Leave, I need to prep and load and top-off; probably an hour. I might as well get started then...
dumb dee dum ♪ ♪ KF

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 4:46pm
by liveforphysics
Kingfish wrote:Whew! <wipe brow>

OK - last of the wiring was done yesterday.

Last of the sewing was just finished. I won't win any awards, but the cover (Version 5) for this trailer is DONE. It looks best from a distance :| :lol: although it is slippery. If I had more time... I dunno; I did the best that I could with the materials and tools that I had, and given that I was running out of zip-ties. Actually it literally looks like a slipper, just not one that I would wear. Originally I was kinda thinking it reminds me of the vehicle that brought me to this world - sans the flagellum drive unit of course :wink: Why it came out this way I guess is one of Life's little mysteries.

Anyways - all that is left to do is ... leave.

To Leave, I need to prep and load and top-off; probably an hour. I might as well get started then...
dumb dee dum ♪ ♪ KF

You have GOT to post up a few pics before you leave after that awesome description. :-)

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 6:41pm
by SamTexas
Kingfish wrote: Anyways - all that is left to do is ... leave.

To Leave, I need to prep and load and top-off; probably an hour. I might as well get started then...
dumb dee dum ♪ ♪ KF
It's been 3 hrs now, so you should already been on the road. How many miles are you going to ride today? Have fun.

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 8:08pm
by Kingfish
SamTexas wrote:
Kingfish wrote: Anyways - all that is left to do is ... leave.

To Leave, I need to prep and load and top-off; probably an hour. I might as well get started then...
dumb dee dum ♪ ♪ KF
It's been 3 hrs now, so you should already been on the road. How many miles are you going to ride today? Have fun.
Packing the BATTERIES took two hours. I thought this was going to be a no-brainer; I've loaded the batteries into the boxes before but the boxes are now installed in the trailer and the lids don't quite open all the way due to other items pertaining to the faring. AND - I took precious time to consider how the wiring was going to lay, plus I added foam padding - you know - like I was going on a road trip instead of "oh lookie see how the nice the batteries fit?" :lol: Then I strapped the lids down with one of those ratchet tie-down things which doubles to contrain the boxes to the framework should my fasteners decide to fail (aka pothole).

The trailer is now officially "heavy" with the full-designed load:
Batteries => 60 * 1.27 lb.s each = 76.2 lbs.
Hub Motor = 14 lbs.
Wheel = figure 5 lbs. with DH tube, rim, spokes, and beefy Hookworm
Frame = 3.8 lbs.
Custom framework = 5 lbs easily; the CrMo Truss running through the BB is the heaviest item.
Faring = 5 lbs; Vinyl is heavy shite man, but most is kept to a minimum.
Clothes = 10-15 lbs
Spare parts = 3 DH tubes; 10 lbs easily
-----------------------------------------------
Total = 134 lbs? Maybe.

I can still lift the rear tire off the ground though it takes two hands. It handles being dropped a foot; no creaks or pops. Side-to-side wobble is more pronounced - but that's me wiggling it back and forth at the rear tire; this is translated into trailer-frame twisting which I attribute to the low rise/low profile of the triangle/seatpost. I think it will be fine. Rotating the ebike (leaning it over) so I can mount it is easy and near the CenterLine; the bike controls the moment and not the trailer.

Topped-off with a charge; for the first time all batteries are unified! Took maybe 15 minutes to top them off. I'll give it one more shot before bedtime so the morning goes quickly.

Pictures: Uno momento por favor :)
<click, click...> KF

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 13 2011 10:24pm
by Kingfish
OK, pictures posted on the Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution thread.

Enjoy! KF :mrgreen:

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 14 2011 5:02am
by speedict
grindz145 wrote:Speedict is so slick....just wish it went to 100V! I run nearly everything at 20S...

Keep it up KF!~
today we have got email from EV team requires 600V 500A, interesting after discussed with our engineers, we decided to give it a try and draw him a diagram, i would like to share it here, anyone who to measure 1000v 700A just call me !

cheers,

danny

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 14 2011 7:46am
by grindz145
O wow, that looks fantastic. The cover makes it look really lagitt. Now lets get this party rolling!

Re: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 14 2011 7:51am
by grindz145
speedict wrote:
grindz145 wrote:Speedict is so slick....just wish it went to 100V! I run nearly everything at 20S...

Keep it up KF!~
today we have got email from EV team requires 600V 500A, interesting after discussed with our engineers, we decided to give it a try and draw him a diagram, i would like to share it here, anyone who to measure 1000v 700A just call me !

cheers,

danny
That's awesome. It's a little less slick because I need a separate regulator, but on one of the next 3 builds I have going, I'll have to try one. I LOVE the idea.

On the Road

Posted: Jul 14 2011 12:12pm
by Kingfish
Jack Kerouac, On the Road wrote:"We were all delighted, we all realized we were leaving confusion and nonsense behind and performing our one noble function of the time, move."

"Why think about that when all the golden land's ahead of you and all kinds of unforeseen events wait lurking to surprise you and make you glad you're alive to see?"

"What is that feeling when you're driving away from people and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? — it's the too-huge world vaulting us, and it's good-by. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies."
It is time that I depart this world so as to meet the next. The Gypsy Spirit rises within me, nomadic soul, restless wanderer that it is – to stare down limitless lines of asphalt and concrete, dodging repeatedly the debris other travelers where margins permit my lee. Pass kindly sir for I am but a mere mortal on my mechanical machination, an augment of reality that allows for the briefest of moments to manipulate my physical realm with greater speed than one could humanly imagine just a few scant years before. This is an odyssey; a compact between myself and my maker to purge the demons that plague my creative mind… and shed a few pounds in the process. The void calls to me like the siren sweetly singing… as I yam wot I yam, and that’s all that I yam:

Image

Leaving Now(); KF 8)

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 14 2011 9:18pm
by Kingfish
The Road Trip has been cancelled.

Stability Issues
I was unable to go very far today, thus I returned and disassembled the trailer from the bike. This configuration is not suitable for this much weight – and in fact was not much of an improvement over the Bob Ibex trailer it was designed to replace.

Generally the symptom was that the axial twisting of the trailer bike frame propagated forward and radically affected steering as speed picked up, creating instability and inability to control steering. This issue does not manifest going uphill. At the most fundamental level I deemed the arraignment unsafe at any speed under heavy load.

Contributing factors
No single element is responsible; several played a part and worked in concert to generate an unsafe experience.
  • Bike Frame: The dual-tube inline framework from steering to rear axle is inherently unable to cope with wide loads. A better design would be one of three tubes arraigned as a triangle in cross-section from front to back, like a 3-pole truss. This would reduce the axial twisting force greatly if designed correctly. Instead I relied upon a single unsupported CroMoly tube passing through the Bottom Bracket. The twisting was most evident when under heavy load, and oscillated when speeds reached beyond 5 mph.
  • Wide Hookworm Tires: These wide balloon tires have great traction; however they have a poorly-constructed sidewalls which allows the rim to move laterally from side-to-side during cornering. On a two-wheel bike one hardly notices the effect. Yet on a trailer that is oscillating, the rhythm is enhanced by the wandering of the rim upon the wheel; the very nature of soft suspension Balloon tires profoundly enhances movement by having weak sidewalls. A better solution would be to upgrade to DOT tires.
  • Full-Suspension: A full-suspension bike frame generally has one or more pivot points. In my case I have multiple between three links discounting the shock absorber that connect the rear frame to the main frame. The bearings that are used on this frame are suitable for a single human rider, possibly with a knapsack. Generally they do not make bike racks for FS-MtBs because of the wide assortment of articulation, and that the pivots are not designed to handle lateral loads; there is too much potential play in the linkage to create a stable towing foundation; this I learned today. The proper solution would be to use oversized bearings to prevent lateral frame deflection such as found on motorcycles. Earlier I noted that having my secondary battery bag on top of the bike rack created scary conditions similar to tail wagging-the-dog. The trailer loaded up with gear magnifies this effect by just being a large link or lever with huge mass.
Unfortunately all this scientific explanation cannot fix the problems today. If I were to apply a correction then the Because-Simple bike frame would need to be replaced. If money were no object I’d have a custom trailer made-to-order likely using two wheels for stability and eliminate twisting altogether. This is not going to happen soon. :|

Therefore I wish to say that the bike trip to California is off due to instability. I am far happier to have a failure at the beginning of the trip than if it were later when in-between desert towns, although clearly I am disappointed for losing the race altogether. Not all is lost though as my eBike is in top-flight shape, and much was gleaned from the trailer exercise. :)

On the bright side, I can now focus on my next project, and possibly go back to work sooner to create a budget for the next project or two. For now – I am ready for a nap.

AFTER NAP:
I got up and discussed the issue with my senior pit crew (aka Uncle); Unc thought that I might need more tongue weight. Intrigued, I hooked the trailer back up and loaded the batteries (though not connected), and added four gallons of frozen water (kept in the freezer for enhanced energy efficiency) to the front of the trailer, as if I replaced the clothes with more than enough weight. A static wobble test ensued: The assembly now had even more profound wobble – and I was able to detect slop in my full-suspension linkage which could be resolved by adding another washer; certainly a work-item and definitely contributing to the ricketiness. However the smoking gun was staring at me in the face and there was no way this frame could work with this much load.

Future?
It is possible that the trailer could be put to use for one of my other potential interests as a Kayak Trailer; typical kayaks weigh about 40-45 lbs. That’s about the best use scenario that I could come up with.

For now – I’m taking a break. I‘ll write more later - and post the final pictures.

Dreaming of new plans, KF

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 14 2011 9:45pm
by Joseph C.
Damn! A little bit of me died reading that.

Hopefully, you will do it soon though.

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 14 2011 10:23pm
by jonathanm
oh noes......hope you're not too miffed about it, you put a lot off effort into that....maybe you should get away on a shorter trip without the trailer, you deserve it after all that...

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 3:37am
by Green Machine
Kingfish,

Really sorry to hear.

you sure you cant do the trip with less battery in the panniers of the bike...just more stops more camping? I have a hammock i use for bike camping that stuffs down to the size of a grapefruit. I could easily fit camping supplies and 50 amp hours (48v) of battery in my panniers.

I hope you figure out a way to do trip anyway.

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 10:34am
by Kingfish
Pictures and final farewell of this configuration.

Image

Top View: Note that the right pannier is not mounted (cos I have the camera out). A wee bit of aero don’t you think? :)

Image

Rear ¾ View: It speaks for itself, yes? Can you spot my 2nd bit of bling? :D
Green Machine wrote:Kingfish,

Really sorry to hear.

you sure you cant do the trip with less battery in the panniers of the bike...just more stops more camping? I have a hammock i use for bike camping that stuffs down to the size of a grapefruit. I could easily fit camping supplies and 50 amp hours (48v) of battery in my panniers.

I hope you figure out a way to do trip anyway.
All is not lost: The residue of creativity always leaves behind artifacts of inspiration, however remote. Time for reflection; time for thinking out of the Box! :wink:

<Mystical Experience: ON>
:: Cue Eastern music ::
  • An evening of meditation at the Oracle of Sacrificial Barleys (read: local watering hole) ensued wherein I redeemed myself through imbibing quantities of fermented barley broth impregnated with copious amounts of H. lupulus (a relative of C. indica in terms of pharmacology and sedative effects upon knotted muscles and webbed mind, but I digress…) wherein the intimate nature of the problem could be reviewed abstractly. And being only Thursday meant that I had Friday to use for opportunity and conscription of those souls bound to a 5-day work week. Thus ~ a new thought was born.
< Mystical Experience: OFF>
:: yank record! ::

I am considering an alternative originally conceived by you in a PM wherein I ditch the trailer; hear me out:
  1. Must fix the full-suspension linkage issue first (brass washer; possibly custom == Machinist)
  2. Make a mad dash to Seattle Fabrics and snag more material for making a custom saddle bag, er – maybe two.
  3. Create said bags; dump the batteries into that – balancing the weight fore and aft upon the frame.
  4. Pull the rear wheel off the trailer, convert it to disc brake and mount it on the ebike; no easy task if we recall the issues that I had with the front disc brake (again, Machinist?). Though the tire is only 24” (actually 25” with the Hookworm mounted), overall it should reduce the height of the bike by 1”.
  5. Find a single- or triple-speed freewheel and mount this onto the rear hub; lighter, higher-quality than the 7-speed. Caveat: May need to replace the chain. A single speed means we don’t change gears in the rear; we can dial it in where it needs to be.
Now we have a heavy-duty 2WD eBike! :twisted:

I dunno if it is possible, but the cost of conversion is slight relatively speaking, and it’s my vacation is it not? :wink:

Worth a shot, KF

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 10:44am
by dbaker
That was my general reflection as well. What would I do to get all of the stuff (well maybe not ALL of it) back on the bike to get on the road? Do you really need 2WD?

Especially if you can get some more weight on the front. I think the key is balance... :)

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 10:47am
by dbaker
KF: Can you spot my 2nd bit of bling?

Is it the propeller on the back of the bike?

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 11:06am
by Kingfish
dbaker wrote:KF: Can you spot my 2nd bit of bling?

Is it the propeller on the back of the bike?
Ding Ding Ding! We have a Winner :D

It was one of those must-have kinda things, like the Hot Wheels nerf padding up forward :wink:

Touché, KF

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 11:15am
by Kingfish
dbaker wrote:That was my general reflection as well. What would I do to get all of the stuff (well maybe not ALL of it) back on the bike to get on the road? Do you really need 2WD?

Especially if you can get some more weight on the front. I think the key is balance... :)
2WD is a must for hill climbing else the motor gets too hot; I nearly roasted my last climbing up the steep grade heading towards Johnsville, CA and on Gold Lake Road.

The other thought was to ditch as much weight as possible; go with 2-day change of clothes, no spare batteries, essential tools. Batteries though ARE the prime contributor to weight and there is no getting around that to make the distance. Shedding the trailer saves maybe 20 lbs plus the rear bike tire, although we're back to an overloaded bike again. :roll:

The big challenge is to overcome the tail-wagging-the-dog when load is placed upon the rear rack, and it could be that the washer will reduce this. There's only one way to find out and we can do that quickly without committing to the rest :wink:

~KF

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 11:46am
by liveforphysics
Trailers generally only sway because the percentage of total trailer weight does not put enough of it on the tongue to allow the vehicle to stop the trailer from becoming a pendulum.

In your test adding the frozen water jugs towards the front, you didn't remove/move the problem. IMHO, if you were to put all the battery possible strapped right up on the tongue or at least in the forward-most nose area of the trailer, you could avoid the pendulum effect and it would work out for you.


The worst possible thing you can do for a trailer is to make it long and put the weight over the back/rear axle area. This make a device that requires almost no influences to start swinging, and something that will be very difficult to stop swinging.

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 12:45pm
by grindz145
Kingfish wrote:The Road Trip has been cancelled.
NOOOO!

Sorry to hear that, It was really exciting. Sometimes it is worth throwing in the towel and going to the drawing board when its obvious that something isn't going to work, the thing is gorgeous though!

Re: On the Road: Going to California: 2011

Posted: Jul 15 2011 1:23pm
by Kingfish
liveforphysics wrote:Trailers generally only sway because the percentage of total trailer weight does not put enough of it on the tongue to allow the vehicle to stop the trailer from becoming a pendulum.

In your test adding the frozen water jugs towards the front, you didn't remove/move the problem. IMHO, if you were to put all the battery possible strapped right up on the tongue or at least in the forward-most nose area of the trailer, you could avoid the pendulum effect and it would work out for you.


The worst possible thing you can do for a trailer is to make it long and put the weight over the back/rear axle area. This make a device that requires almost no influences to start swinging, and something that will be very difficult to stop swinging.
That wasn't it; not tail-wagging-the-dog. It was axial twisting and oscillation along the length CW and CCW which transmitted forward. Imagine I had a length of rope and I twisted it a little. The length upon that axis would be akin to the hitch at one end and the wheels at the other. When going down the road the trailer-frame would twist CW and CCW ~ like a wobble, though not like a pendulum.

The static test was to see how the wobble would be affected by more weight, and placed forward. This allowed me to discover the cause of the wobble in the full-sus linkage on the eBike which was recently disovered when I placed a modest load upon the bike rack. I can fix that with a 5/16 flat washer from Home Despot :wink:

However it does not solve the trailer problem :cry:

~KF