Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

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Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 12:13am

Over in my earlier thread, The futility of the Prius, and the end of the world as we know it, jag made an interesting point with regard to rationality and choice of transportation:
jag wrote:
etard wrote:I bet there are people flocking to the dealerships test driving the Prius this weekend because of rising gas prices. I love it! But in the end, they go home and do cost analysis spreadsheets etc... it all comes down to the dollar.
If average Joe would actually do a rational cost-benefit analysis we would be way ahead. People would buy houses they could actually afford, so no housing bubble; drive vehicles (or use other transportation options) that make sense, instead of behemoth SUV and trucks; demand efficiency and accountability from corporate and public enterprise as well as government, instead of being swayed by empty campaign promises etc.

All of this could be done by most people if they tried. But somehow the idea to apply the math skills learned in school, even the most basic ones, is foreign to most people, often even highly educated people as well.
Why do I find it interesting? Because I, being a hugely data-driven nerd, have been obsessively thinking about this issue for quite some time, and I feel that the rational choice for me is hardly to drive a Prius. In fact, in my circumstances I think the rational choice might be to drive the biggest SUV that I can find. How did I come to this seemingly absurd conclusion, pray tell? Well, I'm glad that you asked:

Background

I, like most people, usually use my vehicle to commute to work. I actually put more miles on my motorcycle than my car, but I will always need some sort of 4 wheeled vehicle as a backup in case of inclement weather and for the unfortunate but necessary days in which I work overnight. As it so happens, I'm a physician, and that's relevant in that my hours are odd and the hospital never shuts down for snow days. It's also relevant in that while I'd be inclined to choose the cheapest option that met my needs I won't be strictly confined to models at a low price point.

How long will my future commute be? I'll never attempt an absurd Central Valley-to-LA type commute since I like to do things other than sit in traffic, but I also will most definitely not be living in some townhome or apartment right in the center of a city because both my wife and I are (noisy, obnoxious to neighbors) musicians, and because I desire both a garage and a yard. So we've established thus far that I will need a reliable 4 wheeled vehicle that'll shrug off snow and inclement weather and which has a range suitable for a medium distance commute. At this point, any late model Japanese FWD car with snow tires might look like the sanest option. Hell, even something like a Nissan Leaf might work for this purpose.

Making the commute a little less painful

Next up, and specific to me, is what toys I want. If I can't lanesplit as when on the motorcycle then there's a non-negligible chance that I'll be stuck in traffic now and then. My inner hedonistic tech-nerd tells me that having a quiet, luxurious car with some sort of adaptive or dynamic radar-based cruise control would be the way to make the most out of traffic, as it were. At this point, we've suddenly jumped up in price point a lot, but there are still options as "lowly" as, say, a Lexus HS 250h or various and sundry European models that'd meet the criteria spelled out thus far. The Leaf still hangs on the list, but just barely, because its quietness might make up for its lack of fancy toys.

Safety, or strength via mass?

Then we come to safety. Cue the incredulous cries: You're concerned about safety, yet you often commute on crowded roads on a motorcycle and a bicycle? Actually, yes, I actually am concerned about safety. While I make the conscious decisions to ride my motorcycle (because it's fun and because it's a good tool to beat traffic when the weather is calm) and my bicycle (for the health benefits mainly) knowing that they carry an inherently higher risk of injury, I also take explicit actions to minimize that risk. I'm an ATGATT high-viz-jacket-wearing/white full-face helmet/auxiliary lighting and brake flasher-equipped kind of motorcyclist, and my bicycles have both reflectors and active front and rear lighting despite the "uncoolness." I've done advanced rider training and actively work on my riding skills since the rider's actions are so large a part of control when on two wheels. I also carry good medical and life insurance because I recognize and accept that other drivers may intrude on my personal space at any time and ruin my day.

Anyway, back to safety. As part of my investigation into the IIHS 2011 driver fatality rate statistics (done for fun on my own time--did I mention I'm data driven? :lol: ) I've come to see that my previously held notions about car safety weren't strictly true. As I put it in the linked post:
I used to resent the large vehicles that soccer moms throughout the US tend to favor. I thought that they only lent a false sense of security, what with their bulk, high seating position, and, often these days, high "cocooning" door sills. I thought that superior active safety, the increased nimbleness and maneuverability that a smaller, lighter car offers, would trump passive safety when the time of reckoning arrived.

I was wrong.

It turns out that, all other things being equal, physics trumps all... and now, thanks to lower rates of SUV rollovers, "all other things" are indeed equal.
More data comes in the form of the NBER's just released paper entitled The Pounds That Kill. In it, the authors demonstrate not only that large vehicles are safe, but that every 1000 extra pounds that a large vehicle carries there's a ~47% increase in fatality risk for the other drivers/pedestrians/motorcyclists with whom they may be involved in an accident. They also estimate that the gasoline tax would need to be raised by $1.08 over its current levels in order to account for this external risk.

The intersection of politics and personal choice

Next we have to consider that I live in the US of A. This is relevant in a few ways.

First, it means that I'm not in the EU, where congestion charging and vehicle tax proportional to CO2 output is the norm. Second, it means that there's generally plenty of room for a large vehicle in terms of road construction and parking availability. Third, it means that we have a hell of a lot of unlicensed and uninsured motorists on the road driving a wide variety of vehicles that range from rustbuckets on bald tires that are one baling wire away from falling apart completely to brand new luxoboats. Fourth, the general selfish nature of our people means that distracted driving is all too common and likely to increase in the future.

Fifth, and possibly the most importantly, it means that we have a political system in which our choices are right of center (Obama and mainline Democrats) and far, far to the right of center (Republicans). There's no coalition system of government where a minority of, say, Green Party politicians could wield any power. For better or worse, our political system is also very buddy-buddy with industry. Because of these factors I predict that there's about 0 chance whatsoever that we'll implement a carbon tax, or even raise our meager 18.3 cents per gallon Federal gas tax. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that we'd raise gas taxes by an additional $1.08 in order to internalize the external risk to other road occupants that massive vehicles create. Populist pandering and the widespread prevalence of large vehicles (Ford F-150, anyone?) also mean that we'll probably never see a truly progressive fee schedule for vehicle registration, either.

Where am I going with this? I'm trying to paint a picture in which it's clear that there are no governmental incentives to steer people away from large vehicles, and in which policies, for better or worse, are likely to stay the same in that the negative externalities of gasoline use are not borne by the individual driver in the form of a Pigovian tax of some sort.

Basically, President Obama wants you to drive a big car or SUV. :lol:

Conscience and Altruism

Some would object at this point and say that one's conscience would dictate the choice of a vehicle that saved resources in general (see: subcompact non-hybrid bargain basement car) or one that saved gasoline and lowered GHG emissions in particular (see: Prius and Leaf alike). I say bollocks to that. As we've established earlier in my thread on the futility of the Prius, I'm unwilling to be a martyr to a cause when the incentives are all lined up against me and the effort will be ultimately futile due to factors entirely outside of my control. Plus, as per the above, I want to be as safe as possible, and have the most relaxing experience in my "cage" while I'm cocooned within it.

What about altruism, you ask? If government regulations won't internalize the externalities, won't good will towards your fellow man inspire you to save the commons through your own unilateral action? Well, no, not in my case it won't. As I wrote above, we're a selfish, distracted, undertrained, poorly equipped driving nation on the whole. The uninsured motorist who may hit me while texting will have exhibited no altruism in his actions, and, as with the environmental issue, I'm not going to be a martyr to a failing cause.

Off to the showroom!

We can finally take a look at the vehicles out there after all that thought and rationalization done beforehand. By distilling down the above and thinking about what I'd want, I come up with this list of attributes:

- MPG be damned, as our gas will be cheaper than the rest of the world via our policies, for better or worse, and because I realize that depreciation on any nice/newer model vehicle I may buy will be far greater an expense than fuel cost itself
- Cost not a huge issue as long as it's not some six-figure exotic
- Really big/massive, so as to minimize my risk and because there exist no real incentives other than fuel economy to not go big
- Luxurious, with adaptive cruise control and cooled (not just heated) seats
- Quiet
- Not ostentatious. This one isn't a rational thing but rather a cultural thing. I'd never consider a Cadillac Escalade, for example, because I think their image is far too flashy and trashy simultaneously.
- Reliable, so many of the European marques are out of the running instantly, including BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and Range Rover in particular
- Sure-footed since I'll be in inclement weather, so why not opt for 4WD while at it since mileage isn't a concern?
- Good outward visibility, since although I mention "cocoons" in passing above I don't want to actually feel as if I'm in one. I don't want a tank with slits for windows or a cartoonish vehicle penned by a teenager--I'm looking at you, Infiniti FX.
- Handling prowess at the limits of traction doesn't really matter, as I'm a cruise control-at-the-speed limit-in-the-right lane kind of driver these days

Put all this together, and the vehicle that seems to fit the best is… this 6000 lb monstrosity. 8)

May I present my (hypothetical) future vehicle, the Lexus LX 570.

Image

Any comments, besides the inevitable tl;dr and "Wow, you have a lot of free time on your hands"? (To address the second point, I did have a lot of time on my hands in between cases this weekend, as I was in house at the hospital for fully 48 of the 72 hours of the long weekend and then couldn't sleep very well in the intervening 24 hours at home. I wrote much of this then, albeit in a more disorganized form.)

Cliffs Notes: Given the right set of inputs even a very rational individual can come to the conclusion that driving a barge of an SUV is the proper choice.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Lock » Jul 06 2011 12:26am

Cliffs Notes: Given the right set of inputs even a very rational individual can come to the conclusion that driving a barge of an SUV is the proper choice.
Only read yer Cliffs Notes really, but Executive Summary, yer analysis assumes ya don't care about yer neighbours or your kids or family or future generations and humane city-scapes... That cheap energy sources are infinite. Correct?
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by neptronix » Jul 06 2011 12:32am

18mpg highway? you obviously have not done a good enough job finding the most wasteful SUV ever.

Image

Germany's answer to the Hummer is still for sale in the USA. Get us closer to an oil-free future with it's 15mpg highway.
You can also get the AMG version if you need 13mpg.
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 12:38am

Lock wrote:
Cliffs Notes: Given the right set of inputs even a very rational individual can come to the conclusion that driving a barge of an SUV is the proper choice.
Only read yer Cliffs Notes really, but Executive Summary, yer analysis assumes ya don't care about yer neighbours or your kids or family or future generations and humane city-scapes... That cheap energy sources are infinite. Correct?
LoCk
We're going to use up all the oil and coal on this planet one way or another. It might as well be me given that the incentives in the US really don't encourage otherwise and aren't likely to change.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 12:40am

neptronix wrote:18mpg highway? you obviously have not done a good enough job finding the most wasteful SUV ever.

[G-Wagen]

Germany's answer to the Hummer is still for sale in the USA. Get us closer to an oil-free future with it's 15mpg highway.
You can also get the AMG version if you need 13mpg.
Seats 5.
Heh, I realize you post this in jest but that's actually a vehicle that I'd consider except that it's ostentatious. No Escalades or G-Wagens for me. Hell, no BMWs, Audis, or Mercedes either, please. Something about those companies/those vehicles' drivers bugs me, while the bland competence of Lexus seems more my style.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by snellemin » Jul 06 2011 12:57am

Was a nice read.

I too was in such position right before our second child was born. And my conclusion was a used Ford Expedition.

My thinking went like this:

I will most likely have a family of 5(do now) and need to keep them safe when riding around in Houston. Small cars will get crushed by all these big trucks around me.
I need to be able to carry 8 people when we have out of towners visiting.
When it rains hard, there are flash floods and I don't want my family to be stranded in traffic and/or in the middle of nowhere.
It will be a family vehicle and not a daily commuter.
We love road trips and like to be comfortable doing it.
My RC hobby takes up a lot of space in a vehicle.
Lowes and Home Depot sees a lot of me.
I want all the seats go flush against the floor and not deal with taking out bench seats when putting 8 and 6 foot boards in my vehicle.
I like torque over horsepower.

So out I went and test drove nearly every SUV. After a few months I ended with a 2 year old Ford Expedition(eddie bauer) and paid half the price of a new model.
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 1:05am

Woohoo, someone actually read it! That's one more than I was expecting, frankly. 8) :mrgreen:

The Excursion has crossed my mind, especially the diesel (for biodiesel or WVO usage after the zombies attack). I'm generally cautious when it comes to domestics, though, after my family's poor experiences over the years with a Ford Tempo (general POS), Plymouth Voyager (brake, transmission), Lincoln Mark VIII (interior fit and finish, sluggishness), and a Ford Expedition (same as the last).

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by neptronix » Jul 06 2011 1:09am

Oh. I seriously though you were trying to troll the forums. Now i don't know what to think anymore.

So you've already rationalizing getting probably the ~5th most wasteful and excessive vehicle for sale in the United States. You don't live in an extreme weather states... so what do you want us to do here?

+ Get pissed off because a large number of us are trying to preserve the environment and you're on the other side?
+ Try to talk you off a cliff?
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 1:15am

I live in New York now but this is temporary, only until 2013. Then I finish my residency and head off to a TBD location, somewhere in the West if I have any say in it. 8)

No, I'm not trolling any more than my "Futility of the Prius" thread before was trolling. I'm just pointing out that a rational thought process (albeit with some weird priorities) can lead to the choice of a huge-ass vehicle. That possibility doesn't seem to cross the mind of many zealots.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by snellemin » Jul 06 2011 1:20am

Toshi wrote:Woohoo, someone actually read it! That's one more than I was expecting, frankly. 8) :mrgreen:

The Excursion has crossed my mind, especially the diesel (for biodiesel or WVO usage after the zombies attack). I'm generally cautious when it comes to domestics, though, after my family's poor experiences over the years with a Ford Tempo (general POS), Plymouth Voyager (brake, transmission), Lincoln Mark VIII (interior fit and finish, sluggishness), and a Ford Expedition (same as the last).
The 2006 model expedition wasn't bad as the previous year models.
My wife refused to drive a diesel excursion and didn't care if I was going to do biodiesel.

I still have my 2000 camry(wife's commuter) and old 1985 nissan 720 pick up truck(hobby truck) in my garage. And ofcourse I have my ebike as my commuter.
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by neptronix » Jul 06 2011 1:25am

Your rationality is very weird. I read your post and it does not compute. It indicates that you should buy something that is far above and beyond what you actually need, into the realm of the extreme. Anything less than the extreme is giving into some kind of societal pussification that you perceive. I swear you have some kind of antisocial personality disorder if you think like this normally.

I can think of dozens of smaller, more affordable, more economical to run, less environmentally damaging ( and road damaging ) cars but you already made your mind up on one of the worst.

You do whatever you want with your money, it's legal to do it.. who cares about the externalities. You don't. So why did you post here? what are you trying to get at? that you care the least?

Bravo! :lol:
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 1:35am

I didn't mention any kind of "societal pussification". That's you projecting.

Did you miss the whole bit about safety and mass? The stuff about me wanting adaptive cruise control and the like is arbitrary fluff, sure, but F = m * a, and the numbers back me up.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by StudEbiker » Jul 06 2011 1:40am

Sigh, whatever vehicle you decide is best for your family is the one you should get. I give you my personal guarantee the "environment" will not be affected one iota whether you get the biggest SUV ever made or do your commute on a pogo stick. I'll leave saving the environment to Neptronix, I'm trying to save freedom, which is much more threatened than the environment these days.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by neptronix » Jul 06 2011 1:45am

Your safety means that other people die when something that is the weight of two cars hits them.
Other drivers are far less safe with you on the road.
That's what's screwed up about these cars.
If you were driving a normal weight car and hit another normal weight car, both cars are designed to withstand those kinds of forces, and it would be exceptional for all drivers to come out with any major injuries.
Even compact cars are designed to withstand major rollovers. That's why the roofline of all cars past the mid 2000's is so high and everything looks like a chop top.

You never said "societal pussification" but you mentioned that even *trying* to be do the right thing is futile.
I'm not going to be a martyr to a failing cause.
We're going to use up all the oil and coal on this planet one way or another.
So your answer is to do whatever society thinks is bad, as much as possible
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 06 2011 1:56am

Ever driven large vehicles in snow? Its pathetic. Featherweight cars dominate in slippery conditions.

You wish to knowingly make traffic a more dangerous place?

You wish to have painful sensorary deprivation driving?

I could car less about the fuel arguments, other than it sends our domestic economy over to gold pave sand dunes faster. I can't stand driving or riding in SUVs, and have chose walking or taking my own car alone just to avoid the painfully lame SUV travel experience.

I would pick smashing my nuts with a wooden mallet over driving an SUV. At least with crushed nuts you can still have a fun commute and not feel like you're trapped in a rolling sensory deprivation chamber helping to make the world a more hazardous place.

F1 car and Karts = Diving Nirvana giggly bliss that makes your cheeks ache on every trip from all the smiling.

The further you move in vehicles away from this (and SUVs are about as far as they get), the the more in the wrong direction you're headed.
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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 06 2011 2:23am

If you want a non-imbecilic inclimate weather vehicle, go test drive the Nissan GTR or Mitsubishi Evo. If they don't have a GTR or EVO, find one that does, do not waste your time with Nissan and mitsus otherwise painfully boring lineup of vehicles.

Both the GTR and EVO do everything better than any SUV in all weather, they will put a stupid smile on your face not unlike an EV grin, and as a bonus, its possible to operate one without being a clueless fear driven dousche bag.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

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Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by busted_bike » Jul 06 2011 10:00am

Toshi wrote:Cliffs Notes: Given the right set of inputs even a very rational individual can come to the conclusion that driving a barge of an SUV is the proper choice.
I get it - externalities aren't your problem. I also suspect you've read one too many "Freakonomics" books. :wink:

Also, since your reasoning seems to be something along the lines of "I have plenty of money, cost isn't a factor", I'm curious as to why you didn't chose to go with a Peterbilt.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 10:11am

neptronix wrote:Your safety means that other people die when something that is the weight of two cars hits them.
Other drivers are far less safe with you on the road.
That's what's screwed up about these cars.
If you were driving a normal weight car and hit another normal weight car, both cars are designed to withstand those kinds of forces, and it would be exceptional for all drivers to come out with any major injuries.
Even compact cars are designed to withstand major rollovers. That's why the roofline of all cars past the mid 2000's is so high and everything looks like a chop top.
Momentum and energy is conserved. If other drivers suffer that means me and my family have that much less energy to dissipate.
neptronix wrote:You never said "societal pussification" but you mentioned that even *trying* to be do the right thing is futile.
I'm not going to be a martyr to a failing cause.
We're going to use up all the oil and coal on this planet one way or another.
So your answer is to do whatever society thinks is bad, as much as possible
Heh. I can see where you're coming from, but if I chose a vehicle like this it wouldn't be because of its poor fuel economy, per se. Instead I'd choose it for its other attributes (including its mass, reliability, and features) with mpg not a primary consideration.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 10:50am

liveforphysics wrote:If you want a non-imbecilic inclimate weather vehicle, go test drive the Nissan GTR or Mitsubishi Evo. If they don't have a GTR or EVO, find one that does, do not waste your time with Nissan and mitsus otherwise painfully boring lineup of vehicles.

Both the GTR and EVO do everything better than any SUV in all weather, they will put a stupid smile on your face not unlike an EV grin, and as a bonus, its possible to operate one without being a clueless fear driven dousche bag.
I actually was really digging the GT-R for similar technology-worship reasons. Then I realized that I'd never take it to more than a handful of track days (although I would autocross it--don't need a $90k car for _that_), I don't speed on the street as a matter of principle and safety, and I'm getting old. I want a quiet, nice riding vehicle if it's going to be my commuter for use when I don't feel like taking the motorcycle.

With regard to "doing everything better than any SUV": I'd agree... up until the point that whatever obstacle you have (snow, curb, what have you) is greater than the 4ish inches of ground clearance on those sporty cars. 9" of clearance, snow tires, individual wheel traction control (A-TRAC), and 4WD with a locking center diff and low range will take one further, albeit in a slower and non-sporty manner.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 10:53am

busted_bike wrote:
Toshi wrote:Cliffs Notes: Given the right set of inputs even a very rational individual can come to the conclusion that driving a barge of an SUV is the proper choice.
I get it - externalities aren't your problem. I also suspect you've read one too many "Freakonomics" books. :wink:

Also, since your reasoning seems to be something along the lines of "I have plenty of money, cost isn't a factor", I'm curious as to why you didn't chose to go with a Peterbilt.
Actually, I haven't read any Freakonomics books. I try to read the primary literature when I have enough time, and spend all together too much time thinking about externalities.

Heh, why not a Peterbilt, or a Unimog? Fitting in a parking space and a garage is a consideration, and those kinds of vehicles fail miserably. Plus, I'd like something quiet and refined, not something with, well, a truck's interior.

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by busted_bike » Jul 06 2011 11:13am

Toshi wrote:Heh, why not a Peterbilt, or a Unimog? Fitting in a parking space and a garage is a consideration, and those kinds of vehicles fail miserably. Plus, I'd like something quiet and refined, not something with, well, a truck's interior.
Pick up some nice aftermarket whale penis leather seats and park wherever the hell you want to. The collateral damage (gaping holes in local parking garages, crushed cars in your wake) can be classified as externalities. :wink:

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by number1cruncher » Jul 06 2011 11:34am

Good discussion! I agree that other people's problems are not mine, therfore I will do what is best for my family, not anyone else's. That said, I would definately not buy a Lexus/Toyota, they suck. Their build quality has degraded quite drastically over the past 20 years. I've bought two Fords since 2000 and they are both still on the road with just the occasional oil change and tire rotation. Hell, I just replaced the original front brakes on the 2000 Ranger last year. The rear are still original.

If you are truly interested in adaptive cruise control and maybe hands free parking, Ford is the way to go. Their radar approach is much more accurate than Lexus's camera method. Here are a couple fact sheets that you may find interesting.

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/Adaptive_Cruise.pdf

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/APA_Lexus.pdf
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Toshi   10 kW

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by Toshi » Jul 06 2011 12:10pm

Ford's parking assist technology is ultrasonic, not radar. Their adaptive cruise control may use radar, but I'm not sure. Lexus's adaptive cruise control uses millimeter wave radar, but, as you note, the parking assist is via cameras.

One thing I didn't realize is that Lexus's cruise control won't take the vehicle to and from a dead stop. Instead it cuts out at 30 mph. While this is probably safer in that it keeps the driver from completely checking out, it's still somewhat disappointing. BMW and Mercedes are the only games in town to take a vehicle from 0 mph to the set speed and back, and that's too bad since I don't really like either of those companies for their reliability and their image.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous ... se_control

With regard to reliability, here are the pretty damn good reliability figures for the Lexus LS (not the LX, for which consumer reports had an insufficient sample size):

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by jonathanm » Jul 07 2011 2:52am

I think it's interesting how your attitude is.... I'll do what's best for me and my family and f@ck the rest of the people out there....but....I'm gonna ask the rest of the people out there to validate my choice...

You can choose whatever vehicle you like and using whatever pseudo scientific rationality you will find a way to justify it. We all do.

At the end of the day most people choose a vehicle they feel comfortable driving based on about a million different parameters.

You are not gonna save the world if you go green. You are not gonna kill the earth if you buy a Unimog. So the decision you make is somewhere between the two extremes. YOU decide where you want to be.

But you're a physician right? So you are familiar with the Hippocratic oath - "do no harm"....does that only apply to your medical practice? or to your practice in life in general?

Buy whatever car you want, but don't expect people on an EV forum to give you the green light if you decide to run a Lexus tank.

The way I see it, if you are prepared to compromise on some of your rather exacting requirements, you could save some money and sleep better at night....and be an ambassador for a more environmentally sound way of life. If you have the income to do so (many don't) then why not?

eg why not run two used vehicles - one economical vehicle for when you are commuting, and one larger safer vehicle for weekend runs with the family?

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TylerDurden   100 GW

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Re: Rational transportation choices, or "My 3 ton SUV"

Post by TylerDurden » Jul 07 2011 3:19am

If you can't bet em, join em? Double-down on your BP stock too.

Perhaps a couple of years working for the VA is in order... Tell those Vets thanks for losing your legs so I can drive my SUV.
Have a Nice Day,

TD

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