Norway - help me understand

auraslip · Jul 23, 2011

This is a blog post from a norwegian member of the Labour party who was at UtÃ¸ya during the shooting.

I'm still in shock. Just got home. Was driven home by Prableens father from Sundvollen hotell. I'm actually still in shock. I can't get a single tear out. I can't believe it: Today I actually almost got killed. Hunted down and killed.

What can I say? The last normal thought I had was about the student organization in AUF. I had just been to a political workshop (it's what we're doing here on UtÃ¸ya) - and I was on my way up to the AUF-store where I had "guard" duty

A good friend of mine came over and told me about the explosion that had occurred somewhere in Oslo. Sick! The government block and Youngstorget?! (place close by). A lot of people were concerned. The mood was, mildly put, not good, many thought that this was UtÃ¸yas worst moment this year, but then more happened. I had a lump in my throat. The biggest one ever.

We were first called to a information meeting with the leaders so that everyone got the same, and correct, information. This meeting was useful and went well. Almost everyone got hold of their family members in Oslo and got to check if everyone was alive.

I didn't get hold of my family for a very long time! When I finally did get confirmation that three of them weren't in Oslo, and the last one was far from the city center - then I could breathe. Properly. I went down to the AUF store. The general secretary Tonje Brenna came over and talked to me. Asked if I needed someone to talk to. Then we heard shots from down the hill. Who the frock is kidding now, we thought? Who could possibly believe that this wasn't a joke. Suddenly all the guys on guard duty are running up the hill and shouting "hide!" "Run into the main building" etc. I ran into the outdoors toilet at the AUF store. The shots got closer. I was very sure this was all some kind of prank, but you can't be sure, this day had proven that much. The seconds spent inside that toilet were hell. Slowly buy surely I put my cellphone to vibration(no sound) and I put it in my bra so that I wouldn't loose it. I put my purse on the floor. When I finally heard the voice of someone I knew, I stepped outside.

But it wasn't over. We had to run past the NATO toilet (as it was called) and down towards the corner, the right side of the dock. We fell through a lot of bushes and big stones and I got a lot of cuts. We were a group of about 15-20 persons maybe. I was stressed. Matti held me and calmed me down.

We ran and ran. The worst part was when we found out he was dressed as a cop: The guy shooting was dressed a chop. frock. Who can we trust then? If we call the police - that's the guy that will come to check on things?

But we tried to call the cops! They used a fuckton of time. I gave my phone to Munir and told him to update facebook, tell everyone with a boat to help us.

We ran back and forth when the shots got closer. Matti said we had to swim. But how could I manage that, it was sooo far.

Trond Agnar sudden showed up. He said many had tried to swim, but they had ended up swimming back because it was too cold, too long, too hard. But you know what? I'd rather drown than be shot. Sorry. I took of my shirt and with some encouragement Matti I started swimming. It started to get heavy so I had to take of my pants. It was freeeezing.

I swam. Matti saved me. He said the right things and did the right tings. He got me to swim - SO long. When we had been swimming for a while Matti said "Kamzy, dont look back. Look straight forward to that piece of land and think about how that's your goal.

"Ok" I said. We heard shots all the time, and I'm still surprised Matti and I didn't get hit.

(I found out afterwards that he stood there. That was the reason Matti told me to look straight ahead. He was standing right where we had been hiding a few minutes ago. Oh my god! And he tried to shoot us. We were being hunted.)

I kept swimming. Then a few boats came and saved us. One of the boats threw out lifesaving vests and then had to go away. The next boat then came and saved us. Even though we were in the boat, I couldn't relax. It was none of the "Yes, we've been saved"-spirit. He can still hit us with his machine gun! I sat down on the deck immediately. I didn't feel safe. Not at all.

Some of the people living there helped us when we got to the shore. They gave us towels and drove us to a gas station where the police and the paramedics were waiting. I was in shock. Couldn't press out a single tear. I still haven't realized what has happened?

Sunganthan came over to me with my cellphone and was sorry that it didn't work anymore. Dear Sunganthan, I'm just happy you're alive!

Anniken Huitfeldt (she's the minister of culture) called me and talked to me. I didn't know who owned the phone, there was just a girl who came over and said Anniken wants to talk. I asked her: "Why the frock did the police take such a long time to arrive?" She agreed. And tried to calm me, and ask me what had happened.

There was a really nice girl who worked there that gave us warm clothes and something warm to drink. I also got to call my dad. I'm glad he can handle such things a bit calmly - although he was very distressed.

And then we went onwards to Sundvollen hotel where everyone was supposed to meet. We registered and gathered up.

We were the first who got there. And therefore we could see people coming in one by one, crying their eyes out. I understand them very well. I just didn't understand, and still can't understand, why I couldn't get a single tear out. I wanted out of this this state of shock I'm still in. I want out of here. I rode home to my dad with Prableen.

I'm still in shock. Who does something like this? Blows up important buildings in Oslo and kills the future politicians of the labour party who are just attending a summer camp. What wrong have we done?!

Those who ressort to violence have run out of arguments. How could he do what he did to my AUF friends? This seems so surreal. I don't get it. I don't understand.

I recommend everyone go watch the press conference with Jens Stoltenberg and Knut Storberget

"None shall bomb us to silence. None shall shoot us to silence" - Jens Stoltenberg says this, and I couldn't agree more.

First and foremost all my thoughts go out the loved ones. This is when we take care of each other. Support and lift each other upwards. Comfort one and other. And show the most loving part of ourselves.

But I'm still in shock. And that's why I'm writing this blog. I can't tel the story over and over again. This is what happened to me in a short summary. To me. But the fear that was there all the time... I don't think I'm able to put it into words. We were given messages about who were shot and killed on the fly, but I have left this out due to respect for those who are dead. They deserve better.

We don't deserve to die either. And that is why I'm writing this blog. We're just regular youth. We're interested in politics. We want to make the world a better place - I missed the part where WE became the bad guys

Thinking about everyone who was out there on the island.

I really hope everyone makes it. You deserve better.

It was important for me to get this out. It IS important.

Pure · Jul 23, 2011

Just wow. I intentionally don't watch much news so this is the first I've heard of this. Very sad.

Joseph C. · Jul 23, 2011

They were all on an island. Very difficult to reach quickly with no prior warning.

Sociopaths - the scum of humanity largely created by humanity and awful parenting.

A very sad day for Norway. My heart goes out to the victim's families. The absolute random nature of life...

Nehmo · Jul 23, 2011

Joseph C. said:
...
Sociopaths - the scum of humanity largely created by humanity and awful parenting.

How does parenting play a role here? I suppose anything anybody does can be blamed on their upbringing, which may have had an element of awful parenting, but usually attributing a cause for something requires a more direct line of cause and effect.

manitu · Jul 23, 2011

I don't thik parenting has anything to do with this one.

The suspected shooter has been described as a quiet guy, A former classmate described him as a caring person who looked after victims of bullying at school.
He has had arab training buddies earlier but has lately been active at several web forums displaying radical but educated right-wing ideology. No sign of extremism in his web statements.

He had recently moved out of Oslo to a farm where he ordered 12000 pounds of furtilizer , half of wich was discovered by the police at the farm.

The shooting endured for about 1 and a half hour , wich seems like a long reaction time. But we have to keep in mind that Utoeya (Outern Island) is in a rural area, just across the county line , 40-50 minutes from Oslo . The local police requested asistance from the special weapons police unit , witch was allready scrambled to the bomb site at goverment square.

As former politically active , I'm shocked by this attack at the ruling labour party , and most of all the attack at their youth organisation's summer camp.

.manitu

Philistine · Jul 23, 2011

There's nothing much to understand, the guy was just a total whack job. I believe he technically suffered from "a broken brain box". You can't ever stop crazy from happening. No different to Timothy McVeigh or the Unabomber. Heartbreaking stuff, and really sorry for all the victims and their families, but we are always going to have nutbars.

Joseph C. · Jul 23, 2011

Nehmo said:
Joseph C. said:

...
Sociopaths - the scum of humanity largely created by humanity and awful parenting.

Click to expand...

How does parenting play a role here? I suppose anything anybody does can be blamed on their upbringing, which may have had an element of awful parenting, but usually attributing a cause for something requires a more direct line of cause and effect.

'Largely created' was the words I choose which leaves room for other causes. There is a debated discernment between a sociopath and a psychopath. I agree with the distinction.

A sociopath is someone who is that way due to social causes, a psychopath is simply born that way.

Antisocial narcissists are generally created by their parents. It takes an intimate and close relationship over a prolonged period of time to destroy a human being when it is in development - leaving just a shell with only vestiges of humanity remaining. To create a narcissist the individual must be subjected to either excessive adoration or inconsistent, extreme admiration and castigation.

What results is a fractured personality that tries to adhere to unrealistic standards and expectations. The person feels defective but covers this up with a superficial mask often of glibness.

See below - taken from Wikipedia.

Healthy narcissism has to do with a strong feeling of "own love" protecting the human being against illness. Eventually, however, the individual must love the other, "the object love to not become ill". The individual becomes ill as a result of the frustration created when he is unable to love the object.[9] In pathological narcissism such as the narcissistic personality disorder and schizophrenia, the personâ€™s libido has been withdrawn from objects in the world and produces megalomania. The clinical theorists Kernberg, Kohut and Millon all see pathological narcissism as a possible outcome in response to unempathic and inconsistent early childhood interactions. They suggested that narcissists try to compensate in adult relationships.[10] The pathological condition of narcissism is, as Freud suggested, a magnified, extreme manifestation of healthy narcissism.

With regard to the condition of healthy narcissism, it is suggested that this is correlated with good psychological health. Self-esteem works as a mediator between narcissism and psychological health. Therefore, because of their elevated self-esteem, deriving from self-perceptions of competence and likability, high narcissists are relatively free of worry and gloom.[11] Other researchers suggested that healthy narcissism cannot be seen as â€˜goodâ€™ or â€˜badâ€™; however, it depends on the contexts and outcomes being measured. In certain social contexts such as initiating social relationships, and with certain outcome variables, such as feeling good about oneself, healthy narcissism can be helpful. In other contexts, such as maintaining long-term relationships and with other outcome variables, such as accurate self-knowledge, healthy narcissism can be unhelpful.[12]

Maligant narcissism combined with an antisocial dimension is probably the worst kind. These people are created, they are untreatable and incurable because that is their personality.

In a world in which you need a license to drive a car, own a dog (you do where I'm from anyone), anyone can become a parent without any training or qualifications. The most dangerous weapon of all, found on our planet, is a human being.

Edit: Link to Malignant Narcissism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism
When narcissism is combined with paranoia or fanaticism you get an Adolf Hitler, a Gaddafi, a Timothy McVeigh, or a David Koresh.

Nehmo · Jul 23, 2011

Joseph C. said:
In a world in which you need a license to drive a car, own a dog (you do where I'm from anyone), anyone can become a parent without any training or qualifications.

You jumped from one irrelevant subject to another, and you didn't provide anything beyond conjuncture to support your contention "awful parenting" contributed to the shooting massacre and bomb attack in Norway.
In the end, you repeated some cliche nonsense that suggests the government should require a license for people to have kids because the government licenses people to drive cars.
I suspect this is something personal with you. You want to blame your parents for some hardship in your own life. It's possible you have a case, but extending that to a blanket criticism of parents in general is irrational.

Joseph C. · Jul 23, 2011

Nehmo said:
Joseph C. said:

In a world in which you need a license to drive a car, own a dog (you do where I'm from anyone), anyone can become a parent without any training or qualifications.

Click to expand...

You jumped from one irrelevant subject to another, and you didn't provide anything beyond conjuncture to support your contention "awful parenting" contributed to the shooting massacre and bomb attack in Norway.
In the end, you repeated some cliche nonsense that suggests the government should require a license for people to have kids because the government licenses people to drive cars.
I suspect this is something personal with you. You want to blame your parents for some hardship in your own life. It's possible you have a case, but extending that to a blanket criticism of parents in general is irrational.

Nothing personal at all - I am quite satisfied with my parents (I hope that it is reciprocated) and I am my own agent. Thanks for asking.

None of the subjects I mentioned for explaining my viewpoint were irrelevant and none were conjecture. Go and look up the topics yourself and do some studying. That 'nonsense' as you refer to it is well-established psychiatry and part of the American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - so take that up with them.

I never said anything about having a license for people to have kids - that would be virtually impossible to implement and fascist - you see what you want to see, not what is written. Perhaps there should be mandatory training for expectant couples - but would that change anything? Unlikely.

I believe the murderer is an antisocial paranoid narcissist - that is my opinion, nothing else, and I do not have to justify having an opinion to you or anyone else. I don't have any substantial evidence to back up this belief and I am not a psychiatrist, if I was, I would keep my opinions on this subject private.

I then went and listed the motivations and thought patterns behind pathological narcissism - these were not opinions but facts and certainly not conjecture.

I never said that awful parenting contributed to the shooting. What I said was 'Sociopaths - the scum of humanity largely created by humanity and awful parenting.'.

This is not the first time I explained this sentence to you - it will be my last. 'Largely' means that these are the main reasons, there can be others not necessarily those,

If this person is antisocial [which is my belief/opinion that he is] (sociopath or psychopath), he may not be, then his parents may not have anything to do with it. It could be someone else, it could be a traumatic birth, it could be just his nature (psychopath).

But in most cases of sociopathy, generally the parents are the number one factor or cause for the illness developing. Once more I am not saying that is the case with the murderer just with sociopaths.

Perhaps I should have been more clearer in my demarcations between opinion and fact but as I saw it that was intrinsic. The question you asked was 'How does parenting play a role here?' in reference to 'Sociopaths - the scum of humanity largely created by humanity and awful parenting.' I answered this question explaining how it creates antisocial narcissists. You then dismissed this as nonsense and conjecture - which is mind-boggling.

Edit: I better use the quotes for good measure.

Joseph C. said:
Nehmo said:

Joseph C. said:

...
Sociopaths - the scum of humanity largely created by humanity and awful parenting.

Click to expand...

How does parenting play a role here? I suppose anything anybody does can be blamed on their upbringing, which may have had an element of awful parenting, but usually attributing a cause for something requires a more direct line of cause and effect.

Click to expand...

If instead you were asking about how does parenting play a role in the murders in Norway - then I have no idea nor would I speculate with absolutely no evidence available. But that was far from clear and certainly not what was written.

So to be clear:

I don't know if the murderer is a sociopath but I believe he is and I have no way of proving this.

I listed the characteristics of sociopaths - in particular, antisocial narcissists.

I listed some examples of fanatical/paranoid malignant narcissists although some may disagree - that is life.

I never said that the murderer's parents were responsible for his actions.

I never said that sociopaths have to have awful parents in order to exist.

My parents were and are good to me. I have quite a solid relationship with both who are alive and well.

Finally, I never said that parents should have licences to raise children.

Edit: Just to be very clear - my reference to car and dog licences and parents raising children was to draw attention to the contrast. It is much harder to have a dog or a car than a child. Which do you think carries the greater responsibility and should we not be concerned about this?

That does not mean the state should control the human reproductive cycle but we should be more vigilant and understanding about this. It may not do any good but vigilance has few side-effects.

NeilP · Jul 24, 2011

I only heard about this this morning too.

I am not going to contribute the to the above debate, but instead, throw in a different question.

Would this have been able to happen in the USA ..particularly in a State that has more liberal gun laws that allow the public to carry weapons.

From what I understand the shootings that have happened in the USA have happened on places where public carrying of guns is banned ( IE university campuses).
If there had been a law abiding member of the public /off duty police officer / farmer..who had a gun, how much quicker would this have been ended...
I do not know, the outcome of the Norway incident...did the local Police get him..alive? did they shoot him?

Here in the UK, handguns have recently ( in the last few years) been banned even from sport and target shooting....Gun related crimes involving handguns have now RISEN.

dogman dan · Jul 24, 2011

That's a good question. Not sure I know the answer. But we have a saying out west, outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.

A real good example of that in action is Mexico. Only cops and the cartel have guns. Since the cops are often the cartel too, it's pretty bad down there now.

I don't pack anymore myself, but when younger I always did. Not concealed, but legaly there in a holster on my hip, or a rifle on the truck gun rack. Seeing the gun, lots of really rude people started to be real polite. I liked packing out in the forests, or the lake where drunks would roam the beach. Gimme your beer dude, OH, nevermind.

But bottom line, a whacko like that guy in Norway will get one, or a bomb, or whatever and do lots of damage. People just can't go around prepared for that kind of stuff everywhere. Here in the west USA getting guns is easy, but so it gettin shot. Bouncer threw out some guys in a bar the other night, and they go shoot up the parking lot. Hard to say what's best, not having guns around for the occasional whacko, or having every drunk bounced from a bar have a gun in the car.

Thud · Jul 24, 2011

Loonies are loonies...and will do as loonies do.... It dont matter one bit if there are gun laws in place or not.

This guy built a fertilizer bomb....(I don't know the gun laws in Norway...was it a hand gun?) I am allways suprised that people are still shocked at these incidents. I suspect there is a % of defectives out there (more now that the population is higher) & its a function of data collection & instant global comunication that make it look like there is more violence now than before. I suspect its prolly the same as its allways been.
(edit-i just saw a blurb photo on the news showing a long gun typicly described as a tactical wepeon)

That said, gun laws are all bullshit. Its sad that crime is a viable option for so many, but limiting access to any tool is simply denyinng the responcible citizens the access...criminals don't care if they are breaking a law in the 1st place.

On the front page of several news papers celibrating Lindbergh's then epic trans atlantic crossing, there is a snippit about a a loonie bombing a school house in Michigan a couple days earlyer. if this happend today it would be a week long media event broad cast to the world for ratings & ultimatly more market share ($$)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

I know at least 40 people who allways carry a concealed wepon on them. (in defence 10 of them are police officers LOL) But an urbanite right winger buddie just got his CCW permit & imediatly bought his 1st fire arm. A concealable gun to carry. Now retired he is living the RV life style & decided he needed to be able to defend his motor home on the road.

in my experiance, people generaly do the right thing without needing the threat of mortal combat over every tiny dispute.. I personaly don't cary anything more than my pocket knife & even that is a pain if I am traveling or going to be subjected to any security checks during the day. (court house,airport)

Sorry A, but there is no understanding some one who is "out of their head". Their logic is twisted & depending on the level of dementia, will shift fluidly with any argument, defying any semblence of rational. (at least from the perspective of a some one conforming to society's norms).
Its just another note in the history of humanity.

manitu · Jul 24, 2011

It appears now that he planned the attack or at least caught on to a militant anti muslim conservative right wing ideology , for more than nine years!

He published a 1500 page manifest and a youtube video hours before the attack.

About the gun control issue.. It depends on a lot of issues. If this had been 25 years ago every countryhouse close to the island would have a shotgun and a hunting rifle, and the situation may have been solved sooner. But it isn't as easy as "if everybody has guns , the bad guys won't dare to use them". To make a safe comunity with guns (Hunting rifles and shotguns , not handguns and automatic rifles wich is only made for killing people),we need to educate the children for real, and learn them to respect others views and opinions. We must let people be as independent as possible within a system wich still safeguards the ones who struggles.

Much the same way we must combat extremism.

edit: He used a handgun and a automatic rifle.

.manitu

Joseph C. · Jul 24, 2011

NeilP said:
I only heard about this this morning too.

I am not going to contribute the to the above debate, but instead, throw in a different question.

Would this have been able to happen in the USA ..particularly in a State that has more liberal gun laws that allow the public to carry weapons.

From what I understand the shootings that have happened in the USA have happened on places where public carrying of guns is banned ( IE university campuses).
If there had been a law abiding member of the public /off duty police officer / farmer..who had a gun, how much quicker would this have been ended...
I do not know, the outcome of the Norway incident...did the local Police get him..alive? did they shoot him?

Here in the UK, handguns have recently ( in the last few years) been banned even from sport and target shooting....Gun related crimes involving handguns have now RISEN.

Perhaps you are right Neil, perhaps not. There are times when we just have to accept we have absolutely no control over certain outcomes. God knows how long he was planning this. Edit: nine years according to Manitu. It is very hard to stop someone who doesn't leave a much of a warning, may be none at all. And it is very hard to stop someone who is constantly thinking how to kill as many people as possible in remote locations.

It may be a wrong thing to say, but I'll say it anyway, I think these things are inevitable every few years and there is little that we can do about them if the person is very good at covering their tracks. The media doesn't help though. There are psychologists who believe that the prospect of becoming infamous is a driving factor for these people. If I had my way there would be a blanket media ban of mentioning these people's names, pictures and portraying them as an antihero etc.

He was captured alive.

dingoEsride · Jul 24, 2011

This guy had it well planned, the bomb in Oslo was a distraction while he in his police disguise gained the trust of the youth till his disgusting act, all I can say is good he didn't kill himself so now he will be jailed for a max of 21 years, and may them years be hard on him

Joseph C. · Jul 24, 2011

dingoEsride said:
This guy had it well planned, the bomb in Oslo was a distraction while he in his police disguise gained the trust of the youth till his disgusting act, all I can say is good he didn't kill himself so now he will be jailed for a max of 21 years, and may them years be hard on him

He may not get jail time at all. He cannot be found guilty if he is accepted as being insane. In Ireland people like that are put into secure mental homes for the rest of their lives. They can never be released into the public again, I'm sure Norway has something similar. I know the US does something similar with certain paedophiles and hebephiles.

dingoEsride · Jul 24, 2011

Joseph C. said:
He may not get jail time at all. He cannot be found guilty if he is accepted as being insane. In Ireland people like that are put into secure mental homes for the rest of their lives. They can never be released into the public again, I'm sure Norway has something similar. I know the US does something similar with certain paedophiles and hebephiles.

That may be where the law is not working well and may change, as for gun law anything will always be available given time and money, same with drugs

manitu · Jul 24, 2011

If found sane , the maximum punishment is 21 years. If found violently insane , he will be sent to secure mental hospital.
If he is found mentally unstable and a danger to him self and others , but sane acording to law , he can get a additional punishment called "forvaring" (means something like keeping/holding) , where his case will be reviewed every number of years. So a life in prison is absolutely a possibility. But no death penalty as you seem know..

.manitu

Philistine · Jul 24, 2011

Is that really true Manitu that the maximum is 21 years in Norway?

That is fascinating.

Don't get me wrong, I spend most of my time arguing against mandatory and extensive prison sentences in Australia. But that is amazing as a maximum multiple murder sentence.

In Australia (death penalties ending in the 50s aside), our maximum life sentence was always around 21 years (or something close) - which historically were a byproduct of life expectancies at that time - ie, as an adult - 21 years in jail meant you were dead (or good as), but now you might get a good 20-30 years after that. For this reason, in the 80s it was replaced with mandatory minimum sentencing and truth in sentencing laws, which meant you could potentially get life without parole (ie, you die in prison). Our system also adpoted a concept where you could be considered such a threat (despite being totally sane), that you are held indefinately anyway (all constitutional challenges of that law have failed as far as I know). I find this stuff really interesting, and I didn't know that Norway had a total maximum sentence of 21 years for sane murderers, is that right? Surely you must have some safeguard for crackpots like this guy?

In Australia we had Martin Bryant who killed 35 people in a similar type of slaying in Tasmania, and he has been imprisoned as a non-nutbag, but in protective custody. And he will die in prison, by order of the judge. That isn't something the parole body can review (it must stay as ordered), and he has exhausted all avenues of appeal.

manitu · Jul 24, 2011

Yeah , the maximum sentence is 21 years. But this guy will get a extended sentence where he will be evaluated every now and then , and kept untl "safe".
Come to think of it, I don't think you ned to be mentally unstable to get a indefinite extension to the sentence (forvaring), just a danger to society.

.manitu

Pure · Jul 24, 2011

In regards to prison in Norway and Sweden. Back in my 20s I dated a Swedish native here for school for a few years. I even visited Stockholm. The difference between their prison system and ours was always something of a good debate we would have with my American friends and her Swedish and Norwegian friends. Anyhow from what she told me (not 100% on the Norway system) the Swedish system is more like a summer camp than a prison. From all of what she told me, I've had vacations with worst amenities than the prisoners get over there. There (at one time) was even a program for the prisoners "on good behavior" could go on a "prison" boat and got to cruise the world for the duration of their sentence.

auraslip · Jul 24, 2011

I understand gun laws in norway are pretty lax. Anyone who isn't a criminal can get them.

Still, if someone wants to devote 9 years of their life planning such an attack, there is nothing, short of turning our society into an orwellian police state, that will stop them.

number1cruncher · Jul 25, 2011

auraslip said:
I understand gun laws in norway are pretty lax. Anyone who isn't a criminal can get them.

Still, if someone wants to devote 9 years of their life planning such an attack, there is nothing, short of turning our society into an orwellian police state, that will stop them.

That is what all terrorists want. They want all people to feel the way they do. Scared, lonely, paranoid, etc...

John in CR · Jul 25, 2011

dingoEsride said:
...all I can say is good he didn't kill himself so now he will be jailed for a max of 21 years, and may them years be hard on him

??? He should have been executed on the spot. Why should the rest of the world waste any time or resources on this animal?

Instead of parenting being the blame, my opinion is that the press is largely to blame for this as well as terrorist acts. If the press coverage for events like this was simply "Some deranged person killed some people today, and the police shot him on the spot."...No name, and certainly no coverage about why he did it, because that's why most of these whack jobs do it. Yes, a free press serves a valid purpose, but in its current form the press is a corrupted abomination.

MikeFairbanks · Jul 25, 2011

John in CR said:
dingoEsride said:

...all I can say is good he didn't kill himself so now he will be jailed for a max of 21 years, and may them years be hard on him

Click to expand...

??? He should have been executed on the spot. Why should the rest of the world waste any time or resources on this animal?

Instead of parenting being the blame, my opinion is that the press is largely to blame for this as well as terrorist acts. If the press coverage for events like this was simply "Some deranged person killed some people today, and the police shot him on the spot."...No name, and certainly no coverage about why he did it, because that's why most of these whack jobs do it. Yes, a free press serves a valid purpose, but in its current form the press is a corrupted abomination.

That would be irresponsible police work. They have to detain him and question him as much as possible in case he was working with others. He is even claiming that he is one third of a bigger plan (although authorities think he is lying about that).

Killing him right away might limit knowledge the police need.

I'm hoping the guy starts singing the praises of Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage, particularly Savage. He likens liberals to vermin (uses that word), which is exactly what the NAZIs called the Jews.

Norway - help me understand

10 MW

10 kW

100 kW

10 kW

100 W

100 kW

100 kW

10 kW

100 kW

1 GW

1 PW

1 MW

100 W

100 kW

100 kW

100 kW

100 kW

100 W

100 kW

100 W

10 kW

10 MW

1 kW

100 TW

100 kW

Similar threads