amberwolf wrote:Seizures have continued in clusters since the above, sometimes up to an hour apart, as close together as starting stage one while still in stage three.
A few minutes ago I got a video of the middle of stage one, and into stage two, then a separate one of a bit of stage three (which is still going on and could continue for half an hour or more. YT is not cooperating and i"M too tired to care, so it'll be uploaded later.
Stage one is where she arches her back and locks her muscles, jaws open, feet straight out. Jaws clatter (not touching each other, so not sure what exactly makes the sound; don't know if the camera picked it up or not), feet and legs jitter around, etc., from muscle tension. This stage is usually short, a few seconds to maybe a minute.
Then she relaxes from that pretty suddenly and begins "running" in place laying there, and "barking". This stage can go on a while, a few minutes to half an hourish; I lost track of time on the longer ones so dunno exactly.
She's unconcious for both of those.
Then she transitions into a stage three, a possibly semi-aware state that is a continuation of stage two but laying upright instead of on her side, panting heavily with relaxed lolling hanging-out tongue (more like she had strangled than if she was panting normally, whimper-barking almost continously, getting quieter as she gets closer to the end of this stage. If the panting stops, it seems to signal the end of this stage, though she does not always regain control of her tongue at that point.
I don't think she is really concious during stage three, either. Maybe semi-concious...kinda like being half-awake, but even less so. Perhaps like a sleepwalker?
Speakng of which....during stage three, she would get up and wander around, falling and bashing into things, if I didn't have a harness on her to hold her down with. She doesnt' resist the holding down much; and she sort of responds to sounds but not in any normal way, just that she apparently hears them. Even though she appears to be looking around, swivelling her head back and forth, she cannot see anything, though--no reaction at all to motion in a well-lit room, and even her pupils don't react to a flashlight in parts of this stage (but seem to in others). She slightly responds to touch, but again, not in her normal way.
If she passes thru this stage back to a semi-normal state before stage one occurs again, then she can see again, and hears me normally, but she is exhausted at that point and just relaxes and dozes off.
Mostly she doesn't get back to normal before stage one starts up again, and then she goes thru it all over again.
A couple of times she's skipped stage two and gone to three right out of the first one.
If she appears to be normal but is moving her head left and right as if looking around, then she is about to start stage one again, AFAICT.
Externally, she appears to be having greatly exaggerated dream states, as if she was locked into a terrible nightmare and unable to fully wake.
I managed to get her morning meds into her, but not any food yet. She's had water a few times over the night and morning when she's been able to get out of stage three completely, but that never lasts long.
I myself haven't really slept, just dozed here and there for a few minutes at most, with nightmare-filled moments that wake me if she doesn't.
The last one I remember was that Nana was here, rather than Teddy, and she was eating herself--grabbing pieces of flesh down into the muscle, and ripping htem out while howling from pain, eating them, then doing it again, and I couldn't move to stop her.
and im glad youdid cuz the ice seems to have worked a little bt so fra.EVTodd wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but when I saw seizures I had to say something.
pheno is what tiny was on, but teddy is on zonisimide or something like that with valium for preseizure treatment though there is no time to give it to her presiezure cuz the signs are only seconds long. rescue is bringing rectal liquid valium tomorrow from vet so itll work faster than tablets she has now.He's on potassium bromide and phenobarbital.
afaict teddys are triggered by entering a dream but thats a guessbased on her norml slep pattersn, cuz the last almost-a-day is all ikown about her siezrus.This is a dog that is triggered by falling asleep so he has had nights of 20+ seizures. Full on clusters, losing control of bodily functions, nightmare post Ictal period of barking for hours after...
.One of the things I found that helped us was putting a large bag of ice on his back at the first sign he was about ready to have a seizure
Since it's a cluster of seizures it's time to talk to a vet for sure. I think the ice helps a lot (for our dog anyway) to help prevent the seizures or greatly shorten the length of a single one but once they go into a cluster it can be hard to stop. The worst our dog had required a trip to the emergency vet and an iv with the proper meds to stop it.amberwolf wrote:The second stage (barking/thrashing) is MUCH shorter in the last few hours, but the seizure itself before that (stage 1) is no less. Siezures seem to be happening less often, but I have lost track of them since I'mnot really sleeping, just dozing between them occasionally. (though i got a lot more in the last several hours than i did in the day before that, so i'm not ready to keel over now, unlike when i last posted above).
She has a couple of new bites in her lips and tongue where I couldn't get htem out of the way fast enough and keep them there. Still treating the external ones with the neosporin-type stuff.
Since she's unable to swallow liquids easily without some of it going down the wrong way, I'm using the last two of the subcutaneous fluids bags I had for Tiny that she didnt' get the chance to use.
And since she isn't eating (a few times she has licked at wet food, but isn't really "there" enough most of the time to actually eat it,
I've been giving her sugar water via oral syringein the times after her panting stops but before the next siezure.
Using the icepacks EVTodd suggested, the stage two barking/flailing really shortened up, and the actual sleeping (or at least quiet) time lengthened.
She's more "floppy" during this time, instead of all tensed up, t whether that's because she's more relaxed now from being cooler or if it's because something is wrong, or she's just getting weaker from lack of food, I don't know.
amberwolf wrote:No siezurse since teh last one above at 937pm; thats almsot 5 hours. lets hope thas end of them
i dozed off somwere in there but woke p to yogi checking on us. he still is afraid to stay in here, doesn't understand but probly is feeling that she's just laing ther like tiny did after she died and doesn't move, maybe he thinks its contagious. cant blame im.
anyhway i got up to go see him if he needed anythig and when i came back i kissed teddys nose, then she actully pulled her had back a teeny bit which is hwat she wouldve done if she wer e awake, and she had squnty eyes that didnt' track me exactly but like she was aware a little.
i got an icecube and wet it down and set it on her side teeth and she opned he r mouth and let it fall inside and tried to chw it but coudln't contorl anything well enough so setteld for rubbing her tongue on it like she was triing to swallow it. kept pushing it out of her mout instead but when i pushd it in from front teeth a bit she clmaped dwon on it an held it while lcking at it.
she fell asleep liek that. when thtat one omelted i got another and set it on her side teeth again and after a bit she woke and let if fall inside her mouth agian and she wa sbetter at licking it this time but i don't thik much made it down her throat, at least she can actuly try now.
so i hope the siezure s are over now and now shes jsut so wornout and weak that she needs rest and water and food to recofer.
il et her go back to sleep and now i'm oing to try too, sinc eshe s on the foot half of hte bed i'm kinda across the head half and my legs are on blankets on floor; i can leave my arm across her so if she moves i'll wkae up, left a little light on so i cna see whats happening if she does.
yeha, is why not doing normal fod, not doing water, etc. but she need s something and these are only option i hafve.EVTodd wrote:
One thing, be really careful trying to give food while the dog isn't in a normal state. My vet warned us not to do that since there's a high risk of choking.
dunno, eveyrthing i know is in these recent post since youve ben replying. ovre lst 3 yrs with tiny yogi adn teddy, ive asked a lot fo things that go usnanswerd with the recsue. dunno if its cuz they dunno or forgot ot reply or what.Again, I didn't read the whole thread but did your vet or the shelter determine the cause of the seizures?
Hats off friend, it's tough dealing with a seizure dog for sure. I read your posts and it brings it all back. Keep reading about seizures and keeping track of patterns, full moon right now too. See if that ends up being part of the pattern. Do you happen to know how old she is or how old she was when the seizures started? From what I read if it starts at a young age it's usually epilepsy. It can be controlled once you figure out the formula of meds for your dog. Long clusters like you're going through are bad though. Keep bugging the vet or whoever you can.amberwolf wrote:Pratt's only had one bag (they said they had more on the phone, of course), but at least it's something, so it's dripping into her right now.
I wish I could feed her that way, too. :/
I'm making some gatorade ice cubes ATM, so when they're ready we'll start trying bits of those to see about getting sugars/etc into her, if I can get any of them actually down her.
Until they're ready, it's time to start giving her another spot-bath on her backend where the urine soaked into her fur, and her face/etc where all the other stuff hasn't gone down.
This is the first she's had in a year, according to the rescue. Before that, before her present meds (zonisamide) they coudl happen eveyr couple months.EVTodd wrote: Keep reading about seizures and keeping track of patterns, full moon right now too. See if that ends up being part of the pattern.
Do you happen to know how old she is or how old she was when the seizures started?
Yes, Tiny had single-episode grand-mal seizures but once on the Phenobarbitol at the right dosage (adjusted up a couple times) she was fine, except if she got super excited close to (but before) the time she was to get her next meds.It can be controlled once you figure out the formula of meds for your dog.