Living in a Bicyclists Paradise‏

Matthijs

100 W
Joined
Aug 25, 2009
Messages
102
Location
Amsterdam
My city of Amsterdam from an American perspective. I really liked this Life Edited piece on bikes in Amsterdam. The video nailed it on the topic of our so called bicycle culture. The video is well worth watching: http://vimeo.com/77084110

Nothing on electrics yet. Well I think the "problem" is you will not put your expensive electric bike on the street.
 
yup i was there a few weeks ago
it is truly awesome
the bicycle is the family vehicle - day and night - i loved it- i toured the whole city on bike
and the pace is quiete fast- being out of shape i was barely able to keep up
e-bikes were non exsistant- except for the rickshaw guys using front golden motors
the only thing that i found stupid is amsterdamn has a law where if you have a 50cc moped or under they make you use the bicycle lanes
i think thats very dumb- no gas powered moped by law should be allowed on a bicycle lane- mopeds should be kept on main roads- it creates pollution for cyclists and its not pleasant to have these things tail gate you when you're biking along
they should change the laws and get these scooters off the bike lanes
http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2013/02/23/the-moped-menace-in-the-netherlands/
 
How does it work when the weather is bad? Do they suit up for it, ride public transit, or stay home to a large extent? If bad weather overloads public transit, do people just plan ahead and leave earlier. In the video it's obvious how well it works on a nice dry day but what about rain, snow, ice?

Imagine how great New York would be if cars were outlawed on most streets.
 
I dont´t was in Bicycle Paradise yet but i guess its a question of clothe chose.
I would 10 times more likely drive in rain than in the fossil smok from thousends of cars.
Beside that it rains here only 10-15% of all time so 90-85% its dry! :mrgreen:

Possible solutions against rain, snow, ice:

3121.jpg

A45%20TO.GIF

schwalbe_marathon_winter-640x391.jpg

pc110007.jpg
 
Lebowski said:
In the rain many people cycle with umbrellas in one hand....

I can see that, at least for light to moderate rain without wind. I'm really interested in how the average family there handles bikes as primary transport when the weather makes cycling suck.

Also, what about the kids? eg At what age do they start having transportation independence, biking to school and wherever else?

I'm lucky in that my office is home and rain is typically afternoons only when it's wet, so I just don't go out. Because it is predictable during rainy season most pack their banking, shopping, etc into the morning. While there are lots of cars, I'm not sure the majority of households own a car, and if they do it's generally 1 car. Bike aren't uncommon, but it's a small percentage. Walking and an extensive bus system is how those without cars get around. I believe in large part that's due to the mountainous terrain, because bikes are more common in the flat areas near the coasts. Scooters and moto's are quite common, but ebikes are a so much better answer, especially family bikes like bak fiets and other cargo/multi-person carriers.
 
davec said:
e-bikes were non exsistant- except for the rickshaw guys using front golden motors

that's strange,
maybe its the theft issue that Matthijs mentioned...
or the slow speed that everyone is traveling.

http://www.economist.com/news/business/21586591-sales-are-booming-large-scale-urban-hire-schemes-remain-some-way-two-motorised-wheels

In the Netherlands one bicycle in six sold is an e-bike. In Germany the cycle industry expects electric-bike sales to grow by 13% this year, to 430,000 (the most sold in any European country), and to account for 15% of the market before long. In France sales of traditional bicycles fell by 9% in 2012 while those of e-bikes grew by 15%.
 
sk8norcal said:
davec said:
e-bikes were non exsistant- except for the rickshaw guys using front golden motors

that's strange,
maybe its the theft issue that Matthijs mentioned...
or the slow speed that everyone is traveling.

http://www.economist.com/news/business/21586591-sales-are-booming-large-scale-urban-hire-schemes-remain-some-way-two-motorised-wheels

In the Netherlands one bicycle in six sold is an e-bike. In Germany the cycle industry expects electric-bike sales to grow by 13% this year, to 430,000 (the most sold in any European country), and to account for 15% of the market before long. In France sales of traditional bicycles fell by 9% in 2012 while those of e-bikes grew by 15%.


No i bet a grand its the harsch limit for all EU countrys.
These numbers could be in the 40-60% when the limits would be 500W 35km/h thats what every reasonable biker can with muscles output for at least 5-15 km.
Or better would be a variable limit on bike wight + rider wight for 6w/kg and 35km/h in city and 45km/h outside of city (just a dream)


Why you would spend a grand more on a bike that wights 10-15kg more and you are forced to pedal the 250w just compensates the morewight and drag the motor brings LOL and 25km/h come on that can run any fit with bare foot for short hehe...
 
John in CR said:
Lebowski said:
In the rain many people cycle with umbrellas in one hand....

I can see that, at least for light to moderate rain without wind. I'm really interested in how the average family there handles bikes as primary transport when the weather makes cycling suck.

Also, what about the kids? eg At what age do they start having transportation independence, biking to school and wherever else?

I'm lucky in that my office is home and rain is typically afternoons only when it's wet, so I just don't go out. Because it is predictable during rainy season most pack their banking, shopping, etc into the morning. While there are lots of cars, I'm not sure the majority of households own a car, and if they do it's generally 1 car. Bike aren't uncommon, but it's a small percentage. Walking and an extensive bus system is how those without cars get around. I believe in large part that's due to the mountainous terrain, because bikes are more common in the flat areas near the coasts. Scooters and moto's are quite common, but ebikes are a so much better answer, especially family bikes like bak fiets and other cargo/multi-person carriers.

Well, I remember cycling to school on my own being 6 years old (less than 1 km). And then from 12 onwards
I had to cycle 12 km one way to school, until blessed relief came in the form of a 50cc Honda Cub at the age of 16.
It actually doesn't rain that much, the chances of it raining at a given time are only a few %. Lots of
peope cycle with umbrella's en poncho's, or full rain suits. And when it's really bad (when the rain is horizontal)
there's always the bus. But I refused to wear a rain suit, I remember being 14 and sitting in school sopping
wet :D (as 12km with lots of rain, you get wet down to your underwear)
 
@Lebowski Sorry I did not want to make you feel homesick. What I find remarkable is that there are actually people that come to Holland because of the biking culture. I like how you describe your early bike years, it sounds very recognizable. :D

@John in CR People just endure bad wetter on the bike. From a young age we hear we are not made from sugar. :lol: When the weather really gets bad people suit up. Note that bike lanes are being treated like primary roads. When it snows or there is black ice they are cleared and salted so we can keep going. Or people take public transport or if they can the car. But then the weather has to be extremely bad. Because of the cycle infrastructure a parent can sent their child(ren) to school knowing that they are safe. So you see children start biking from an early age. And people try to plan ahead to get to their destination.

@Davec I hear you. I truly HATE 50cc scooters and mopeds. They drive right under your nose and are so polluting. Eyeballing electric scooters on the road tell me they are practically non existent. But that is mostly because they are not making an electric Vespa and are to expensive compared to gas powered versions.

@sk8norcal I see electric bike riders that mostly use them for longer trips not combined with public transport and have a good place to store them. Most people have an old junk bike or two that they store for free on the station or in front of the house and use that in combi with public transport. Bike theft is really an issue and electrics are just to expensive to store in public. There is an option to store in the one of the many paid storages but I think this riders are not willing to pay the extra charges to drive an electric bike. Also within the stupid eu electric bike laws.

3 video's from this amazing Dutch bicycle video channel (288 video's and counting):
[youtube]Hb0QjASuuqI[/youtube]
[youtube]m2THe_10dYs[/youtube]
[youtube]5JQr8cm-6X4[/youtube]
 
Hehe the wind is good for balance training :)
Trucks have far more problems [youtube]aowXoDXZfcc[/youtube]

Matthijs said:
@Davec I hear you. I truly HATE 50cc scooters and mopeds. They drive right under your nose and are so polluting. Eyeballing electric scooters on the road tell me they are practically non existent. But that is mostly because they are not making an electric Vespa and are to expensive compared to gas powered versions.

@sk8norcal I see electric bike riders that mostly use them for longer trips not combined with public transport and have a good place to store them. Most people have an old junk bike or two that they store for free on the station or in front of the house and use that in combi with public transport. Bike theft is really an issue and electrics are just to expensive to store in public. There is an option to store in the one of the many paid storages but I think this riders are not willing to pay the extra charges to drive an electric bike. Also within the stupid eu electric bike laws.

Are there charging stations in your city for e-bikes or e-scooters ? are they coin payable or with registration and card?
Becouse i think its a key factor to have in every 5km range a charge plug with coin acceptance.

They are not more expensive the people just can´t calculate. When you buy a scooter with lifepo4 you have no gasoline and oil bills and way less service bills to pay. the initialy more payed is repay´ed after 6-12 months and after that you safe much money.

E-bikes and scooters you can add a alarm system and/or GPS tracker. Problem solved.
 
what i like about the bike culture here in the Netherlands is that it gives you some independence. when i was younger (8-12) i could go to my friends houses by bike and didn't need my parents to bring me there. also going out at night (drinking) is a lot safer because of it. people taking the car to go to a bar here in my city are almost non-existent. some people take taxi, but most take the bike. (age group 16-25)
 
Jolly Jumper said:
Hehe the wind is good for balance training :)

Are there charging stations in your city for e-bikes or e-scooters ? are they coin payable or with registration and card?
Becouse i think its a key factor to have in every 5km range a charge plug with coin acceptance.

They are not more expensive the people just can´t calculate. When you buy a scooter with lifepo4 you have no gasoline and oil bills and way less service bills to pay. the initialy more payed is repay´ed after 6-12 months and after that you safe much money.

E-bikes and scooters you can add a alarm system and/or GPS tracker. Problem solved.

In Amsterdam all public charging is based on a card with registration. Public stations with coins or PIN card (like ALL parking ticket machines) are a very good idea. But the public electric scooter charging failed. :( There were 100 free charging spots with cards. But after 31 of March 2012 they were taken down. Because most electric scooter riders seem to charge at home or work. (Link Dutch) I am already convinced on anything electric! I also calculate like you plus less pollution and noise. But I think the (young) scooter crowd is more worried about style and known easy speed increase on a gas powered version. GPS or alarm will not really work on your ebike or scooter because bike theft is not really a priority with law reinforcement. You just go to the police station to report for the statistics not to get your property back. :roll:
 
Thanks Lebowski and Matthijs, I've got a much clearer picture now. Cycling in the Netherlands is like walking here, just a lot more efficient in terms of time and energy. While I have 0 infra to use here, cars are much more accommodating and accustomed to all manner of objects in the road. Peds, bikes, cows, kids, missing manhole covers, big rocks, etc force drivers to pay close attention while driving, so drivers simply can't go into zombie mode like the ease of driving in the US allows. Plus the nature of the roads, drivers, and traffic means cars drive more slowly. In fact the cars behave similar to the cars in the Dutch vids, ie quite accommodating to bikes and peds and other things in the road...everything except to other cars.

Those who ride bikes in regular clothes even ride like the Dutch, but I simply don't trust drivers enough to ride like that. If been dodging their mistakes for almost 40 years, and I do feel quite safe mixing with cars by using my bike's extreme quickness and speed to create space. When a car can't get close to me how is it going to hit me? If feel the onus is 100% on me to avoid touching the pavement or anything else with anything other than the bottom of my flip flops.
 
John in CR said:
When a car can't get close to me how is it going to hit me? If feel the onus is 100% on me to avoid touching the pavement or anything else with anything other than the bottom of my flip flops.

Na watch this [youtube]bMjhWXF3GnM[/youtube] and think again.
Car´s are not power and/or speed limited not in city not everywhere else. when such a thing gets out of controll its horror time.
 
Russian car crash compilations, one of the best ways the to rid of the winter depression. Works like a 1000W sun-lamp.
By no means understating occasional true tragedy involved. One lady from here goes there (Amsterdam) to ride every year with her bicycle. She says all paths there are just uncredibly smooth. No continious pump&pothole-slalom needed like here.
 
Jolly Jumper said:
Why you would spend a grand more on a bike that wights 10-15kg more and you are forced to pedal the 250w just compensates the morewight and drag the motor brings LOL and 25km/h come on that can run any fit with bare foot for short hehe...

30 lbs. of additional weight in the form of 250W of ebike propulsion will get you:
  • .2 MPH slower if you're not using it
  • 20.7 MPH instead of 15 if you're using it
  • 15 MPH on a 3.4% grade instead of 8.8 MPH (without the 30 lbs.)
  • 8.1 MPH (with the 30 extra lbs.) on a 3.4% grade if you're not using it
  • 17 MPH on the flat and 11 MPH on a 3.4% grade if you don't pedal at all
(30 lb. added to 194Lbs. of bike and rider on a roadster http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm)

8.8 MPH up the hill without the extra 30 lbs.& 250W vs. 11 MPH up the hill without pedaling. Think of the knee hair that will be preserved! That's worth $2K to me. :)

Cars and trucks should defer to bicycles and pedestrians everywhere but expressways.

I didn't know Amsterdam citizens had to fight off encroachment from motor vehicles and motorways in the 60's. That really shows the way for the rest of us.
 
Jolly Jumper said:
John in CR said:
When a car can't get close to me how is it going to hit me? If feel the onus is 100% on me to avoid touching the pavement or anything else with anything other than the bottom of my flip flops.

Na watch this and think again.
Car´s are not power and/or speed limited not in city not everywhere else. when such a thing gets out of controll its horror time.

No matter the mode of transportation freak accidents are possible, and that's a risk we accept simply leaving the house. However, I am far less exposed to something like in that video than any motorist or pedestrian simply because I'm in such an intersection for less time. I look and listen for cross traffic regardless of whether I have the right of way or not, so I like my odds. :mrgreen:
 
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