20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Talk about anything and everything here within reason.
User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4510
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 14, 2013 9:20 am

DrkAngel wrote: - from Speed vs Range
Anyway
10mph = 46 miles range
15mph = 30 miles range
20mph = 20 miles range
25mph = 13 miles range
30mph = 8 miles range
The 20mph USA "legal" eBike speed begins to look more "reasonable" than it did originally?


I have multiple "compliant" eBikes:

Comfort Cruiser
2009 eZip Trailz LS (Low Step)
No pretenses, 20mph limit on a big tired, low slung big suspension seat, full upright position.
Typically I "cruise" at 15mph and "meander" even slower.
Designed for motor only, but I do apply some assist getting up to speed and on hills ...
Dumped the 24V 10Ah SLA batteries and packed 25.9V 25.92Ah LiPo into the oem eZip battery case.
The battery upgrade, combined with the 16T upgrade provides a reasonable ~20mph.


Image

The Commuter
2008 eZip Trailz
Designed to commute at a sustained 20mph.
29.6V 31.2Ah homemade Li-ion battery pack.
16T upgraded drive gear.
Smaller, higher pressure, Kevlar belted, low RR tires.
Proper pedaling position seat.
Designed for continuous pedal assist, motor only 20mph+, reasonable pedal assist provides extended range or a comfortable 25mph.
Safety gear includes reflective tires, strobe headlight tail and turn signals, (mirror is mounted on helmet).

Snow Beast
2008 eZip Mountain Trailz
Winter only, designed to mush through slush, snow and ice.
OEM 20T gearing but upgraded from 24V SLA to 33.3V 31.2Ah Li-ion for a ~20mph capability with a substantial torque increase. (1st upgrade 37V 20.8Ah Li-ion battery replaced for better durability and 20mph legality)
Homemade studded tires ... front tire quick swaps between mountain tread and sheet metal screwed mountain tire, dependent on road conditions. Rear tire is a used carbide studded tire, drive wheel wears steel studs too quickly. Home made studded provides better traction than the carbide.
I do assist for extra umph, when needed,
When really icy-nasty ... I lower seat and ski my feet.

Image

Might have gone overboard with this one ...
Image

Then I went way too far ...
Image

So 20mph is OK by me ... though I might push the limits.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 07, 2014 7:35 am, edited 5 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4510
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Pushing the Limits!

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 14, 2013 9:26 am

So 20mph is OK by me ... though I might push the limits.

By tuning voltage, amperage and gearing, I can limit motor only speed to the "legal" 20mph, but provide substantial motor assist above 20 mph.
Even modest pedal assist might provide 25mph+ speed and some assist is available right through 30 mph!

To really suck all the potential out of the 20mph 750w motor limits, (USA legal Bicycle definition - limitations), you need a programmable controller with speed sensor.

I do have a Haro 700C 24speed I intend on gearing for 22.2V 43.2Ah battery that provides 20mph capability ... might be a switch that "TURBOs" to 44.4V 21.6Ah (providing 30mph+ capability), 48-11T sprockets allow 30mph+ pedal assist at 90rpm. I built a 700C eZip motor compatible wheel. (Long Yih 8spd 32-11T & ACS 16T)

Image

Simpler-easier is a 44.4V battery with an adjustable potentiometer in the HALL circuit of the throttle. This would allow trimming speed to precisely 20mph ... with a hidden TURBO button-switch that allows full power.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Nov 16, 2013 9:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
grindz145
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3317
Joined: Apr 07, 2009 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester NY
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by grindz145 » Nov 14, 2013 10:21 am

I'm right there with you man. Even though I think that limit should be raised to at least 25mph (it's not technically what's legal on the road anyway), 20mph ebikes are still super practical.

I'm rocking an Izip Trails myself this winter, in order to completely eliminate my usual scramble for a winter vehicle. I have Nokan Extreme 296s (practically more expensive than the bike). An Izip/Ezip is still a really economical practical ebike, and with an upgraded lithium battery (not Currie's but a diy version) they're really pretty awesome.

Image

If you can afford the time, slower, lightweight travel can be very rewarding in so many ways.

User avatar
grindz145
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3317
Joined: Apr 07, 2009 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester NY
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by grindz145 » Nov 14, 2013 10:31 am

Hey, off topic, do you know what the steerer tube diameter is for the Currie bikes? I'm wondering if I can put real forks on it :D

User avatar
veloman
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3402
Joined: Sep 14, 2009 1:06 am
Location: Austin TX

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by veloman » Nov 15, 2013 12:31 am

grindz145 wrote:Hey, off topic, do you know what the steerer tube diameter is for the Currie bikes? I'm wondering if I can put real forks on it :D
Probably 1&1/8th threaded. Standard low cost bike setup.
Mush! Mush you electrons! Push harder!
I offer electric powered lawn mowing service in Austin http://efficient-ventures.com/

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4510
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 15, 2013 3:59 am

A differing summation of watts required for a mountain bike to maintain various speeds.

*5mph = 22w
10mph = 68w
15mph = 163w
20mph = 333w
25mph = 601w
30mph = 993w
35mph = 1532w
40mph = 2247w
45mph = 3147w
50mph = 4280w
* from ebike.ca simulator

30mph requires almost precisely 300% the energy as 20mph.
Of course, it does not require 3x the energy per mile.
163w/15mph = 10.86wh/mile
333w/20mph = 16.66wh/mile
993w/30mph = 33.1wh/mile
Still 30mph require 2x the energy per mile, or ...
Same ~36V 10Ah battery ...
15mph = 30+ mile range or - 92.08 miles per kWh = 6 hour cruise time
20mph = 20 mile range or - 60.02 miles per kWh = 3 hour cruise time
30mph = 10 mile range or - 30.21 miles per kWh = 1 hour cruise time
Last edited by DrkAngel on Nov 15, 2013 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

itsmedc65
100 mW
100 mW
Posts: 35
Joined: Aug 28, 2012 7:42 pm
Location: SW Cobb County GA USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by itsmedc65 » Nov 15, 2013 5:08 am

Interesting post from a thread on another forum about a change in US that would allow speeds up to 28mph in PAS mode.

Back on subject. This is big news, and hopefully will get more people into e-assist.

http://www.electricbike.com/retail-e...egal-strategy/

There is a Consumer Safety ruling apparently now allowing these. However, as with the discussion on quads, state and local laws will determine whether you can ride one of these legally.
- Giant Lafree - bought with no batts and got it to run one time after getting it home but struggling with a system fault (2 beeps and 1 blinking LED out of 5). Need to just get a basic brushed controller and fix it. Lipo for this went into the BladeZ below.
- BladeZ xtrSE Scooter - rescued from trash with dead 24v Pb batts and some scuffs, got a harness from icecube57, 8s2p lipo
- Turnkey Aerobic Cruiser https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=52603

User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 34430
Joined: May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by dogman dan » Nov 15, 2013 6:27 am

I totally agree with you, that 15-20 mph is a good compromise between eventually getting there, and getting there at all without carrying 1000wh or more.
Anytime I want to travel farther than 10 miles, I definitely plug in the jumper, and have a top speed around 18 mph. It's easier on batteries to discharge at lower c rates, and you might get more total watt hours out of it as well. I like 20 mph or less because you can take time to enjoy the scenery, rather than just scanning desperately for the next broken bottle in the road. It's easier on tires, brakes, and your lower back if you trashed it framing houses in your youth like I did. At 18 mph, 48-14 gearing is all you need to keep pedaling and adding your 100w or so.

I will ride 30 mph anytime I'm just zipping over to the stores, 4-9 miles round trip from my house. No real need to crawl, a reasonably easy to carry 700wh battery has plenty of range, and my back doesn't mind a faster ride that lasts just a few min. If it's a really nice day, I might just take the long way to the store, and ride 20 miles much slower.

But none of that has anything to do with why anybody legal to have a car that can go 100mph should have such low watt limits or speed limits just because they are on a bike. Even the worst bike I ever rode was safe enough to go 30 mph. The best bike, with the best tires and brakes isn't good enough if you ride dangerous. Hooligan riding through traffic should be limited, but not by making sensible people ride slow.

I really love the New Mexico law. Keep it under the speed limit on the 25 mph residential streets, and 30 mph maximum every where else. There isn't a watt limit, just 50cc's. So a 3-5 hp bike is easily legal, and having 3 hp for one block in some parts of town is a good way to be safe when you have to "run the gauntlet" to get back to safe routes. Our law does require a drivers license for this, so nobody that never took and passed a driving test is legal to ride around with a 30 mph ebike. Nobody actually sees turn signals on small bikes, so why require that stuff to have a "moped class"? You have to be lit at nigtht, but that's for all vehicles out at night, including bikes or a horse and buggy.

I can see having a watt limited class for children, and those who lost their license, and for that category of rider 200w might be just about right. But limiting responsible adults to 1 hp is just dumb.

knighty
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 584
Joined: Sep 13, 2012 8:57 pm

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by knighty » Nov 15, 2013 6:31 am

I think the ebike speed limit should be the same as the speed limit for cars on slow roads (past houses, through neighborhoods etc..)

in the uk the ebike limit is 15mph

slow/normal road car limit is 30mph


the bigger the gap between your speed and the speed of the cars passing you the more dangerous it is for those cars to pass you

if you're doing 30mph... cars aren't in such a hurry to pass you, and when they do they're only a few mph faster than you... so they don;t rush past and take you buy suprise

User avatar
grindz145
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3317
Joined: Apr 07, 2009 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester NY
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by grindz145 » Nov 15, 2013 9:46 am

veloman wrote:
grindz145 wrote:Hey, off topic, do you know what the steerer tube diameter is for the Currie bikes? I'm wondering if I can put real forks on it :D
Probably 1&1/8th threaded. Standard low cost bike setup.
Thanks DRKAngel actually confirmed 1" believe it or not. The frames are pretty cheap.

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4510
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 15, 2013 9:51 am

30mph or run down ...

I live in a small city with every street within several miles limited to 30mph.
Most anywhere there are multiple routes available ... most everywhere ...
In particular, there is one ~5 block stretch of 4 lane, no shoulder, that I must traverse on a daily basis.
Usually I hop on from a side street at their red light and hump it up to 25mph+ to stay ahead of them.
Sadly, motor assist declines from about 12mph and is nothing at 25mph.

Ideally, I could fine tune a bike for motor only 20mph but supplies substantial pedal assist to 30mph.

With the proper voltage and amperage "fine tuning" this is possible.
Using the ebike.ca simulator I "built" this example ...

Image

Overvolting, while reducing amps, provides less assist below 20mph but gives substantial assist past 30mph.
Ideal for the cyclist who pedals looking for a sustainable "keep up with traffic" speed.
Even moderate drafting should greatly reduce required assist effort.

Added benefits are:
Higher efficiency, especially at lower speeds
Less overheat potential in spite of the higher voltage
A perfect alternative as an eaBike as opposed to an eBike
Find a truck or van for substantial drafting
Find a car of proper height for good overall visibility, use it for moderate drafting, and as a "blocker"
(Drafting, especially with larger vehicles, does not require being dangerously close)

Graph is for a Mountain Bike, Road or Race bike should benefit even more!

3 shunt Controller "switchable" by cutting and adding switch to one or more shunts?
1 shunt - 11.7Amp - 350w - 20mph motor only = legal
+ shunt - 23.4Amp - 620w - 28mph motor only
+ shunt - 35.0Amp - 820w - 28mph motor only = full power! (Substantial acceleration increase)
Small inexpensive 15A switches are readily available!
Attachments
PAssist.jpg
(119.03 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
Last edited by DrkAngel on Nov 18, 2013 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 34430
Joined: May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by dogman dan » Nov 16, 2013 6:05 am

One reason I like my cargo bike so much, is it's got a nice amount of power with an oversize motor. Goes 30 mph easy on the short trip, and can barely be warmed up with only 2000w of controller. 48v 40 amps, to a crystalyte 5304. It's a heavy pig, but on the cargo bike the weight is not really noticed. Such a setup should be legal for anybody with any drivers license.

But when I need range, I plug in a jumper and it only does 18 mph. But still has 2000w if I need it for a hill. With some throttle control, I can ride about 15 mph and get 12 wh/mi. In short, it easily does it all.

I just don't get the need to limit speed and power so much, except for children and people who have no license.

Eskimo
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 515
Joined: Feb 25, 2013 9:16 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by Eskimo » Nov 16, 2013 9:21 am

As one minister in British parlament said some time ago: "we have to stop people changing from normal bicycles to electric bicycles".
He was very straightforward about it, that"s the whole deal.
Some of them want car drivers to try E-ride, but they don"t want normal bicyclists to try E-ride.
That"s quite hard equation to achieve, and also quite franky, rubbish.
Though i don"t have strong green agenda, i just wonder where this strong need to limit electric bicycles comes. Oil companies are involved somehow, me thinks.
They possibly are not afraid of E-bikes as such, but try to stop any kind of "electric zeitgeist" becoming a mainstream. Same logic than doctors against drugs have: "if you try grass, you will try heroin tomorrow. If you try E-bike, you will try E-ca..."
Still wondering, how it was when first outboard boat motors arrived? :) Government tried everything to encourage rowing, and loathed this new "cheating" by Evinrude?
Member of a 10 000 mile club
http://helsinkiheroes.com/

User avatar
gogo
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2599
Joined: Mar 17, 2008 2:20 pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by gogo » Nov 16, 2013 9:41 am

Eskimo wrote:As one minister in British parlament said some time ago: "we have to stop people changing from normal bicycles to electric bicycles".
He was very straightforward about it, that"s the whole deal.
Some of them want car drivers to try E-ride, but they don"t want normal bicyclists to try E-ride.
That"s quite hard equation to achieve, and also quite franky, rubbish.
Though i don"t have strong green agenda, i just wonder where this strong need to limit electric bicycles comes. Oil companies are involved somehow, me thinks.
They possibly are not afraid of E-bikes as such, but try to stop any kind of "electric zeitgeist" becoming a mainstream. Same logic than doctors against drugs have: "if you try grass, you will try heroin tomorrow. If you try E-bike, you will try E-ca..."
Still wondering, how it was when first outboard boat motors arrived? :) Government tried everything to encourage rowing, and loathed this new "cheating" by Evinrude?
Human psychology of ingrained preconceptions and expectations. When people form concepts as children, those concepts aren't easily reformed because they have been simplified into emotions. Reforming emotions is difficult, and near impossible when people don't understand their emotional functioning. It challenges their world-view and that makes them very uncomfortable.
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking." -Steven Wright

FeralDog
100 W
100 W
Posts: 239
Joined: Jan 18, 2010 3:23 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by FeralDog » Nov 16, 2013 10:39 am

Eskimo wrote:As one minister in British parlament said some time ago: "we have to stop people changing from normal bicycles to electric bicycles".
He was very straightforward about it, that"s the whole deal.
Some of them want car drivers to try E-ride, but they don"t want normal bicyclists to try E-ride.
That"s quite hard equation to achieve, and also quite franky, rubbish.
Though i don"t have strong green agenda, i just wonder where this strong need to limit electric bicycles comes. Oil companies are involved somehow, me thinks.
They possibly are not afraid of E-bikes as such, but try to stop any kind of "electric zeitgeist" becoming a mainstream. Same logic than doctors against drugs have: "if you try grass, you will try heroin tomorrow. If you try E-bike, you will try E-ca..."
Still wondering, how it was when first outboard boat motors arrived? :) Government tried everything to encourage rowing, and loathed this new "cheating" by Evinrude?
20Mph speed limit in my part of USA weren't no paranoids version of gubermint cornspiricy.
It was a blessing to get the law changed to make e-bikes NOT classed as mopeds or motorcycles.
Otherwise, without the nominal 20mph limit, e-bicycle's would have to be licensed, inspected, insured, taxed, and comply with all D.O.T safety equipment.

PS--- Ole Evinrude didn't invent the outboard.
I don't know your history, but our "government never tried everything to encourage rowing".

User avatar
wineboyrider
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2929
Joined: Sep 30, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Tularosa, New Mexico
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 16, 2013 11:19 am

Somehow I doubt that if a 20 mph limit for an ebike were reality the cops or the legal system would know or care if it could go 25 mph, but if it can zip down the road at 30 mph or higher you might raise suspicion if you are riding near pedestrians.
66-3-1102. Electric personal assistive mobility devices; standards; operator requirements; applicability; penalties.
A. As used in this section, "electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing device having two nontandem wheels designed to transport a single person by means of an electric propulsion system with an average power of one horsepower and with a maximum speed on a paved level surface of less than twenty miles per hour when powered solely by its propulsion system and while being ridden by an operator who weighs one hundred seventy pounds.
B. An electric personal assistive mobility device shall be equipped with:
(1) front, rear and side reflectors;
(2) a braking system that enables the operator to bring the device to a controlled stop; and
(3) if operated at any time from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise, a lamp that emits a white light that sufficiently illuminates the area in front of the device.
C. The director shall by rule prescribe motor vehicle safety standards applicable to electric personal assistive mobility devices.
D. An operator of an electric personal assistive mobility device traveling on a sidewalk, roadway or bicycle path shall have the rights and duties of a pedestrian, and shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with pedestrians. An operator shall yield the right of way to pedestrians.
E. Except as provided in this section, no other provisions of the Motor Vehicle Code [ 66-1-1 NMSA 1978] shall apply to electric personal assistive mobility devices.
F. An operator who violates a provision of Subsection B, C or D of this section shall receive a warning for the first offense. For a second offense, the operator shall be punished by a fine of ten dollars ($10.00). For a third or subsequent offense, in addition to the fine, the electric personal assistive mobility device shall be impounded for up to thirty days.
G. This section does not apply to personal assistive mobility devices used by persons with disabilities.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4510
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 16, 2013 2:50 pm

New York State hasn't passed an eBike law ... so the Federal law should be in affect.

USA Federal Law Defines eBikes limited to 750w and 20mph as bicycles ... "shall not be considered a motor vehicle"!!!

116 STAT. 2776 PUBLIC LAW 107–319—DEC. 4, 2002
Public Law 107–319
107th Congress
An Act
To amend the Consumer Product Safety Act to provide that low-speed electric
bicycles are consumer products subject to such Act.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States of America in Congress assembled
,
SECTION 1. CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY ACT.
The Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2051 et seq.)
is amended by adding at the end the following:
‘‘
LOW - SPEED ELECTRIC BICYCLES
‘‘SEC. 38. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, low-
speed electric bicycles are consumer products within the meaning
of section 3(a)(1) and shall be subject to the Commission regulations
published at section 1500.18(a)(12) and part 1512 of title 16, Code
of Federal Regulations.
‘‘(b) For the purpose of this section, the term ‘low-speed electric
bicycle’ means a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable
pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose
maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely
by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170
pounds, is less than 20 mph.

‘‘(c) To further protect the safety of consumers who ride low-
speed electric bicycles, the Commission may promulgate new or
amended requirements applicable to such vehicles as necessary
and appropriate.
‘‘(d) This section shall supersede any State law or requirement
with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such
State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law

or requirements referred to in subsection (a).’’.
SEC. 2. MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS.
For purposes of motor vehicle safety standards issued and
enforced pursuant to chapter 301 of title 49, United States Code,
49 USC 30102
note.
15 USC 2085.
Dec. 4, 2002
[H.R. 727]
VerDate 11-MAY-2000 23:31 Dec 10, 2002 Jkt 019139 PO 00319 Frm 00001 Fmt 6580 Sfmt 6581 E:\PUBLAW\PUBL319.107 apps27 PsN: PUBL319
116 STAT. 2777
PUBLIC LAW 107 – 319 — DEC. 4, 2002
LEGISLATIVE
HISTORY

H.R. 727:
HOUSE REPORTS: No. 107

5 (Comm. on Energy and Commerce).
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD:
Vol. 147 (2001): Mar. 6, considered and passed House.
Vol. 148 (2002): Nov. 18, considered and passed Senate.
Æ
a low-speed electric bicycle (as defined in section 38(b) of the Con-
sumer Product Safety Act) shall not be considered a motor vehicle
as defined by section 30102(6) of title 49, United States Code.
Approved December 4, 2002.
VerDate 11-MAY-2000 23:31 Dec 10, 2002 Jkt 019139 PO 00319 Frm 00002 Fmt 6580 Sfmt 6580 E:\PUBLAW\PUBL319.107 apps27 PsN: PUBL319
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
dogman dan
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 34430
Joined: May 17, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by dogman dan » Nov 17, 2013 7:20 am

You must be kidding!!!!

How on earth can somebody who has been on ES this long think that fed law has a thing to do with using an ebike on the public street or bike trails? In many US states, motor vehicle statutes have been passed that are identical or highly similar. But the Fed law pertains only to selling an ebike, and calling it a "bike". Only the state or any other local motor vehicle statutes apply. So state law says you can or cannot be on the street, and typically a local ordinance will regulate if you can be on the sidewalk or bike trails or not.

Wineboy, that's the Segway law you quoted. Non tandem wheels means two wheels side by side. Bikes have tandem wheels.

In NM we are mopeds. I feel like it's a definite blessing. We get to legally go 30 mph but have to have a drivers license. But there is no need to get license plates and all that crap. I have no problem with it that it's illegal for people with no driver's license to ride one. I have even less problem with the fact that cops couldn't care less if drunks ride one illegally. Of course, if you happen to be drunk riding one, or pedaling a bike, or just walking, they will still bust you if you are making an ass of yourself.

In NM, the grey area is a lower powered ebike. Is one of 750w or less a bike because of the Fed law? NO. Even a 250w e bike is a moped in NM. It says so in the statutes quite clearly. However, the grey area is that so far, there has been no pushing to get a bike ridden at reasonable power kicked off the bike paths. Not doubt eventually some ass will ride like a hooligan in each city and get it done though.

User avatar
DrkAngel
10 GW
10 GW
Posts: 4510
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 11:14 am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 17, 2013 8:32 am

dogman wrote:You must be kidding!!!!

How on earth can somebody who has been on ES this long think that fed law has a thing to do with using an ebike on the public street or bike trails?
Well ... look at the "Purpose" and "Need For Legislation" and "Summary" of the law ...



107th Congress Report
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
1st Session 107-5

======================================================================


LOW-SPEED ELECTRIC BICYCLES

_______
...

... Purpose and Summary

The purpose of H.R. 727 is to amend the Consumer Product
Safety Act to provide that low-speed electric bicycles are
consumer products subject to that Act. The bill removes low-
speed electric bicycles from the definition of ``motor
vehicle'' within the jurisdiction of the Department of
Transportation
, where such bicycles are required to be
regulated in the same manner as motorcycles. The bill then
amends the Consumer Product Safety Act to transfer jurisdiction
over low-speed electric bicycles to the Consumer Product Safety
Commission (CPSC), where those bicycles would be regulated
similarly to human-powered bicycles.

Background and Need for Legislation

Electric bicycles are in use worldwide, with the market
rapidly evolving over the last several years. Electric bicycles
generate no pollution, are almost silent, and can greatly
increase the recreational and transportation options for
commuters.
Some electric bicycles (power-assisted) provide motorized
assistance pedaling, although they cannot be operated solely by
motor power. These bicycles, like all non-powered bicycles, are
regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC).
Other electric bicycles (power-on-demand) can be operated
solely by an electric motor, but still use lightweight frames,
are used in a manner similar to non-powered bicycles. They have
maximum motorized speeds not greater than those typical of a
reasonably athletic bicyclist while biking.
Typical users of low-speed electric bicycles include older
and disabled riders who do not have the physical strength to
ride up hills without motorized assistance, law enforcement
agencies who use electric powered bicycles to increase their
patrol range, and commuters who cannot afford automobile
transportation or that work in traffic-congested areas.
Power-on-demand, low-speed electric bicycles are currently
regulated by the Department of Transportation by the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). Section 30111 of
title 49, U.S. Code, requires the Secretary of Transportation
to prescribe motor vehicle safety standards. The term ``motor
vehicle'' is defined by section 30102(6) as ``a vehicle driven
or drawn by mechanical power and manufactured primarily for use
on public streets, roads, and highways * * *.''
If NHTSA were to enforce its regulations on low-speed
electric bicycles strictly, the bikes would be required to have
a number of safety features, such as brake lights, turn
signals, automotive grade headlights, rear view mirrors, and
license plates, that are prohibitively costly, unwieldy, or
consume too much power for a low-speed electric bicycle. It is
estimated that the application of motor vehicle regulations to
power-assisted bicycles would increase the retail price of
these bicycles by at least $200-$300 and make them less
manageable and more unwieldy for consumers.
Since low-speed electric bicycles are designed not to
exceed the maximum speed of a human-powered bicycle, and they
are typically used in the same manner as human-powered
bicycles, electric bicycles shouldbe regulated in the same
manner and under the same agency (the CPSC) as human-powered bicycles.
...

"Summary:
...
H.R. 727 contains an intergovernmental mandate as defined
in the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act (UMRA) because it would
preempt any state law or regulation that has more stringent
requirements for the regulation of low-speed electric bicycles
than those required under the bill.
"


House Report 107-5 - Low Speed Electric Bicycles

The intent of the law is to allow, nay ... to promote, the use of electric bicycles on American streets.
From a legal standpoint, the intent often carries even more weight than the "wrote" of the law.

For me ...
This, combined with the New York States annual, typically unanimous, passing of an eBike Bill, by the Assembly, makes me almost anxious to see an eBike case argued in New York State court.

Bill dies, is killed, in the Senate ... every year!
See -New York State eBike Bill
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki

User avatar
wineboyrider
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2929
Joined: Sep 30, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Tularosa, New Mexico
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 18, 2013 12:15 pm

You keep saying we are mopeds, but I disagree. So if you put two training wheels on it it's a Electric Mobility Assist Device.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

User avatar
wineboyrider
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2929
Joined: Sep 30, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Tularosa, New Mexico
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 18, 2013 12:38 pm

If you are going by the constitution then it's States rights first 10th amendment and then the 9th amendment. But, if an electric bicycle is not defined or codified in code then it is a stretch to call it a moped when you can buy it at Walmart and it is subject to the Consumer Product Safety Commission which regulates bicycles and not cars....
If anyone were to get in trouble on an electric bicycle then it should still be the burden of proof to the state to prove it is or isn't a moped. Having stated my case I kind of like it as undefined, because it's less hassle.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

User avatar
wineboyrider
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2929
Joined: Sep 30, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Tularosa, New Mexico
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 18, 2013 12:47 pm

Here is another point of view. If it is a moped Dogman as you say then you shouldn't be able to buy it Walmart and you should be able to register and insure it like a moped. Especially, the Ezip or out of the box electric bicycles, because they are violating the law by selling a motor vehicle without a license to do so. As far as I know Walmart doesn't sell cars or trucks, but they do sell ATV's and electric bicycles.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

User avatar
wineboyrider
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2929
Joined: Sep 30, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Tularosa, New Mexico
Contact:

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 18, 2013 1:02 pm

The police in Tularosa have a rouge officer by the name of Zacharia Diaz and he tried to give me a DWI while I was riding on my ezip 650 like the one you buy at Walmart and I took it too a jury trial and won. After, I spent another 45 days in jail 7 in orange and 38 with work release, because they revoked my bond saying that I was drinking wine at my 25th High School reunion party. I now ride my bicycle in town everywhere and the cops do not frock with me anymore here.
:P
EDIT: Found no probable cause to ask for B.A.C. under the implied consent act and my BAC was .08
Last edited by wineboyrider on Nov 18, 2013 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

User avatar
speedmd
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2762
Joined: Nov 14, 2012 12:16 pm
Location: new england

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by speedmd » Nov 18, 2013 2:14 pm

The solution is simple.

Just print one of these badboys out and stick it to your bike.
Image

Limp a bit also if need be. Case closed!

BozoShanks
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 10
Joined: Jan 02, 2012 10:51 am

Re: 20mph or Bust(ed) - USA "Legal" eBike Speed

Post by BozoShanks » Nov 18, 2013 6:00 pm

In Oregon, USA, the limit is 1000 Watts :)
Favorite Quote: "The amount of experience gained is directly proportional to the amount of equipment destroyed!"

Post Reply