Helmets Part 1,489,348 - To Wear Or Not To Wear

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Canis Lupus   100 W

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by Canis Lupus » Mar 17 2010 12:06am

Sydney has particular problems. I'm not sure why Australians have a reputation for being laid back and easy going. I tend to think it is under the radar stupidity rather than good naturedness; but if they are laid back, it might be something in the water - a something which has been lacking in Sydney's water supply for some time now, the motorists suffering severe withdrawal symptoms. They are pathological.

Apart from imbalanced motorists, another claim to fame which Sydney has is the you beaut bike path which goes over the Sydney Harbour Bridge, it being the only one in the world which starts and finishes with steps.
Harbour Bridge Steps.jpg
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The steps on the other side are more severe.

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AussieJester   100 GW

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Motored Bicylist Sever Head Injuries

Post by AussieJester » Mar 19 2010 6:35pm

Man seriously injured in bike crash


OROVILLE — An unidentified man was flown to Enloe Medical Center in Chico with major head injuries a little after 6:30 p.m. Thursday after he crashed a motorized bicycle on Kelly Ridge Road, police said.

California Highway Patrol Sgt. Steve Dubravetz said the man had driven diagonally across Olive Highway from the Jake's Burger truck near Lakeside Market and Gas, 5250 Olive Highway, according to witnesses.

Sometime before 6 p.m., Dubravetz said the man headed up the right shoulder of Kelly Ridge Road for a few feet, then he hit a pothole or something, veered across the road and flipped off the bicycle.

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Dubravetz said the man was alive, but had major head injuries.

He was taken to Oroville Hospital by ambulance, where he was flown to Enloe. Officers said he wasn't wearing a helmet.

At the accident site, Dubravetz said they hadn't identified the man yet, and didn't know his age.

http://www.chicoer.com/news/ci_14707060


If he lives he will likely be a vegetable, bet he looked cool riding without his helmet
though & no annoying wind noise as he flew over the bars and cracked his skull either :?

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by swbluto » Mar 20 2010 12:46am

It's exactly the fact that using a helmet is such a good lifesaving idea that it shouldn't be required by law. For, the smart whom have brains worth protecting will use it, and those who need weeding out of the gene pool won't. With a finite population capacity on earth that we're now nearing, how else are we going to improve the gene pool?

It's for the good of humanity. :)

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by John in CR » Mar 20 2010 2:11am

swbluto wrote:It's exactly the fact that using a helmet is such a good lifesaving idea that it shouldn't be required by law. For, the smart whom have brains worth protecting will use it, and those who need weeding out of the gene pool won't. With a finite population capacity on earth that we're now nearing, how else are we going to improve the gene pool?

It's for the good of humanity. :)
It's a proven fact that stupid people are more likely to get into accidents, so your analysis is ass-backwards.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by swbluto » Mar 20 2010 2:24am

John in CR wrote:
swbluto wrote:It's exactly the fact that using a helmet is such a good lifesaving idea that it shouldn't be required by law. For, the smart whom have brains worth protecting will use it, and those who need weeding out of the gene pool won't. With a finite population capacity on earth that we're now nearing, how else are we going to improve the gene pool?

It's for the good of humanity. :)
It's a proven fact that stupid people are more likely to get into accidents, so your analysis is ass-backwards.
That supports my notion, so how is that bass ackwards? If stupid people are more likely to get in accidents, and if they're more likely to die from said accidents or otherwise result in an unreproductive state from not taking safety measures for said accidents (And they'd be more unlikely to take such precautions if not legally required), then their overall mortality rate is increased over what would be otherwise if such a law existed and was complied to.

However, I'll agree that the dichotomistic implication that those who don't wear helmets are stupid is invalid, for even smaht people can take educated risks depending on their unique environment and situation. Rather, those who are stupid will have a more widespread tendency to not wear helmets.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by dogman dan » Mar 20 2010 5:41am

If you saw my other thread, you know I just had a nice crash. Amazingly, not a scratch on my helmet. Honestly, it happened so fast, and in pitch darkness, I'm not sure what went where. Last crash you could see the curb had mashed my helmet, but this time I think it was my hip across the curb. Mabye my head was on top of the bike? Anyway , no contact with pavement for my head. I landed on my shoulder and hip at 27 mph.

So I didn't use my hemet, but it was a small comfort to know I had it on as I was flying.

I don't agree though, with hemet laws much. It is a personal choice for adults.

After learning my big city driving in El Paso, I also found driving in LA easy as pie. Navigating in LA, is another story.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by michaelplogue » Mar 20 2010 6:41am

I know that a lot of folks won't wear full face helmets due to the possibility that they can cause severe neck and head injuries when they 'catch' on a rough surface at high speeds. This helmet has an outer 'skin' that is supposed to prevent this sort of hazard.

http://www.gizmag.com/lazer-superskin-helmet/14345/

Image

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Re: Motored Bicylist Sever Head Injuries

Post by PeteCress » Mar 20 2010 8:37am

AussieJester wrote:Man seriously injured in bike crash
OROVILLE — An unidentified man was flown to Enloe Medical Center in Chico with major head injuries.. the man headed up the right shoulder of Kelly Ridge Road for a few feet, then he hit a pothole or something.
Most use I ever got out of a helmet was when some drunk clipped me on my Yamaha YDS-6 going about 55. Did a swan dive onto the pavement, ruined a perfectly good Bell helmet, saw flashes of light on-and-off for two days, probably put my dentist's kid through at least one semester of college - but came away with most of my marbles.

But on a bicycle I had it in the back of my mind that the forces weren't going to be that great in a non-MTB crash - so I've been rather sparing in the use of helmets for anything except MTB riding.

But I've heard the kind of story quoted by AussieJester too many times: basically, somebody is riding in non-threatening conditions; has a not-too-bad crash; and winds up sustaining major damage.

Yeah, in places like Amsterdam or Shanghai people think helmet wearing is crazy.... but back in the fifties, at least some people thought smoking the right brand of cigarettes (Camels "Soothe the T-zone...") was actually helpful to one's health.
Last edited by PeteCress on Mar 20 2010 9:52pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by John in CR » Mar 20 2010 10:50am

I don't see you guys advocating wearing helmets in cars or around the house. Why just on bikes? It's ridiculous and turns people away from biking, so this whole religious thing about helmets only harms the cause. Also, if half the time harping on helmets was spent on safety that helps avoid accidents all together, then there would be fewer dying or getting seriously injured.

Where's the mandate for eyewear? It's a far more necessary piece of equipment than helmets?

No one is going to argue that helmets help in the event of a crash, but recently I got more evidence that supports my stance questioning whether helmets really make you safer overall. Luke didn't bring his helmet down with him, and I was certainly expecting a motorsports adrenaline junky like him to ride aggressively. With no helmet it was just the opposite, and I was quite surprised by how conservatively he was riding. I firmly believe not having a helmet directly affected his riding style, because he felt more exposed without one.

I've also being paying more attention to how motorists behave around cyclists, and there is no question that they give wider berth and otherwise drive more cautiously around regular people with regular clothes and generally no helmet verses those who look like serious cyclists.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by v_tach » Mar 20 2010 12:12pm

John in CR wrote:Where's the mandate for eyewear? It's a far more necessary piece of equipment than helmets?
I'm all for better educated and trained riders. I'm also okay with eye protection. However I've never been witness to anyone with a serious eye injury that has been left drooling on themselves, crapping in their bed, and unable to feed themselves.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by FeralDog » Mar 20 2010 2:28pm

There are some sports where hitting the ground is the norm. I have watched many a skateboarding kid hit the pavement .... US football, hockey, baseball ...... all got some kind of headgear based on an individual practical risk.
Anybody look at the helmets actual specifications? The USA Dept of Transportation rates motorcycle helmets for a 20MPH impact. Yep, 20MPH. And the design is NOT for cracking your skull. The injuries the helmets are designed to prevent is when you hit "something" and your brain sloshes forwards/backwards/sideways whatever BEFORE it smacks inside your own skull.
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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by PeteCress » Mar 20 2010 5:07pm

John in CR wrote:I don't see you guys advocating wearing helmets in cars or around the house. Why just on bikes? It's ridiculous and turns people away from biking, so this whole religious thing about helmets only harms the cause. Also, if half the time harping on helmets was spent on safety that helps avoid accidents all together, then there would be fewer dying or getting seriously injured.

Where's the mandate for eyewear? It's a far more necessary piece of equipment than helmets?

No one is going to argue that helmets help in the event of a crash, but recently I got more evidence that supports my stance questioning whether helmets really make you safer overall.
I'd say that your point is not without merit. There's even an argument that helmets *reduce* public health bc they scare enough people away from cycling that the bad effects of those people not getting the exercise outweigh the good effects of those who didn't get their brains scrambled.

To the cars/around the house angle, I'd say that in neither place are there so many hard objects capable of point loading one's melon. Yeah, I fell over backwards as a kid and cracked my head on a radiator.... and if somebody slips and falls in the shower they may have a big problem.... but in general we ride bikes in proximity to concrete curbs and rocks and those things aren't there when driving a car or walking around the house. As for walking vs cycling (which you did not bring up... but which follows logically), I can't remember the last time I fell when walking. OTOH in recent memory I've fallen several times while cycling - slapping my melon good and proper in two of those falls.

You pays you money and you takes your choice.... IMHO it's not cut and dried.
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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by dogman dan » Mar 20 2010 8:52pm

Heh heh, I know one walker in the dark that shoulda been wearing a helmet,,,

Yeah feraldog, no to helmet laws for adults. I'm undecided about child helmet laws, we have one here for children on motorcycles, not bikes. Wear it or not, your choice. Adults should have a choice about personal protective apparel.

But I do advise, not insist or mandate, helmets for lots of stuff. I've worn one for rock climbing, windsurfing, rollerblading, bike riding ,flying a cloudhopper, and riding motorcycles. Never worried about how I looked once though, either you are a dork or not, and no hat or lack of hat will fool the chicks.

Never wore one skiing, but mostly the snow is soft, and I skiied slow in the trees. Never hit my head in 25 years on the slopes, but I stuck to powder off piste mostly.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by PeteCress » Mar 20 2010 9:44pm

FeralDog wrote:The heavier the helmet, the more it WILL pull your head down to the ground when you reach a certain point in your fall. GRAVITY. Inertia. You can injure your neck and base of ya skull with a helmet on {see Dale Earnhart, ie NASCAR}
I'm pretty sure that a family member had his heat torn off by that inertia a few years ago.

Per the crash investigator's photos, his leathers were intact, the full-coverage helmet looked unblemished, and his glasses were still in place, all the cervical vertebrae were intact with the torso, and what was left of his brain was between the body and the head - apparently having been yanked out as the head was pulled off of the body.

Seems to me like an argument for helmet attachments tb fastened with Velcro or something else that pulls apart before tissue tears. Just yesterday I was riding under a tree and my helmet snagged on a branch. The branch failed before my neck got tweaked but I could just as easily have come out of it with a neck injury.
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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by v_tach » Mar 20 2010 10:01pm

It would seem to me that there is a potential to strike one's head with greater force if falling from the saddle of a bicycle in motion compared to walking through one's home. Automobiles have undergone many mandated changes to their interiors to lessen the incident of serious head injury as compared to decades ago. In my own personal experience as an emergency service provider, I'm constantly amazed at the survivability of serious crashes today compared to what I experienced twenty years ago on the streets. That is, when the vehicle occupants wear their seat belts correctly. Unfortunately we do experience a greater number of crashes per capita compared to twenty years ago though, which I'm sure potentially off-sets the safer vehicles. God bless cell phones, especially text messaging.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by PeteCress » Mar 21 2010 8:39am

v_tach wrote:In my own personal experience as an emergency service provider...
Do you see any issues with aged seat belts? The ones on my '98 seems to have gone soft so that they tend to bear more like ropes than webbing.
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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by deronmoped » Mar 21 2010 8:13pm

I was watching "Jerry Seinfeld" last night and he did a joke about helmets and their users.

He was joking how the people using helmets were short a few brain cells. How it was stupid to put a helmet on and then engage in a activity that required one. The point being, they were not smart enough not to do the the thing that would crack their head open at some point.

Deron.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by Canis Lupus » Mar 22 2010 1:21am

deronmoped wrote:I was watching "Jerry Seinfeld" last night and he did a joke about helmets and their users.

He was joking how the people using helmets were short a few brain cells. How it was stupid to put a helmet on and then engage in a activity that required one. The point being, they were not smart enough not to do the the thing that would crack their head open at some point.

Deron.
Yeah, I was watching that the other day too. Like most Seinfeld logic, it almost makes sense.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by PeteCress » Mar 22 2010 9:01am

deronmoped wrote:I was watching "Jerry Seinfeld" ... joking how the people using helmets were short a few brain cells. How it was stupid to put a helmet on and then engage in a activity that required one. The point being, they were not smart enough not to do the the thing that would crack their head open at some point.
He's a comedian. His first priority is getting a laugh. Jay Leno comes up with some pretty goofy logic sometimes too - but it still gets a laugh, more often than not from me too.

But the whole "If you don't mess up, you won't get hurt" thing seems to me to be a personality trait associated with people with high degrees of competence.

Pilots and engineers, for instance. Pilots mess up and they die. A pilot drills it into the ground and there's little or no sympathy from his fellow pilots: "They guy screwed up and he paid the price. Don't screw up." An engineer pours an inch too much concrete in a half-acre foundation and he's not employed the next day: they do the math, the numbers come out right, and that's the end of it - nothing goes wrong.

My contact with pilots is limited, but I worked with engineers for 20+ years and my impression is that they just don't think in terms of "What if all this is wrong?". They ran the numbers and it's gonna be right.

Seems to me like those people would be heavily skewed towards discounting human error or "Stuff just happens...." when engaging in activities other than their profession. Also, being more competent than most, their odds of something happening are probably lower than the rest of us.
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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by DAND214 » Mar 22 2010 4:33pm

So after 15 pages, the question is do you or don't you wear a helmet. IT'S ALL UP TO YOU!
I always wear my helmet, monditory or not a helmet is a good piece of safety equipment. In 1975 I was racing my Endro kart at Indianapolis raceway park, in speeds of over 100mph in a 10 lap race for money, I lead all but on the last lap on the back starightawy my rt axle broke putting me into the retaining wall at 90mph+. All I could think was, boy this is going to hurt. thanks to my fuul face helmet and leathers all I had was a sprined ankle. I did destroy the helmet and leathers.

On the 10th of this month I was riding my Recumbamt with a rear hub and was making a rt turn at just a little too much speed, the road was damp and as I turned the front tire pushed out from under and down I went twisting my rt ankle in the steering. Thanks I had a helmet on even though I didn't go all the way down. when I got to the hospital and after xrays I was told I broke my ankle and leg. yWould you know the first thing they asked was DID YOU WEAR A HELMET. Stupid as it sounds tha's what they were concerned about.

As I said it's up to you we can go on for another 15 pages and still IT'S still your choice.
Dan
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v_tach   100 W

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by v_tach » Mar 22 2010 9:40pm

PeteCress wrote:
v_tach wrote:In my own personal experience as an emergency service provider...
Do you see any issues with aged seat belts? The ones on my '98 seems to have gone soft so that they tend to bear more like ropes than webbing.
I have never seen a seatbelt that failed in an automobile accident and I've been to many vehicles involved in significant crashes older than a 98 model year. I cant say it wont happen, I've just never seen it for myself.

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by PeteCress » Mar 23 2010 8:26am

v_tach wrote:I have never seen a seatbelt that failed in an automobile accident and I've been to many vehicles involved in significant crashes older than a 98 model year.
I wasn't thinking of the seat belt parting.

Instead I was thinking of the material rolling up and acting as, say, a 1/4" rope instead of webbing.... I can feel it now....Ouch!
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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by swbluto » Mar 23 2010 9:10am

PeteCress wrote:As for walking vs cycling (which you did not bring up... but which follows logically), I can't remember the last time I fell when walking. OTOH in recent memory I've fallen several times while cycling - slapping my melon good and proper in two of those falls.
Indeed. If you've bicycled for 10+ years on a near daily basis while sustaining speeds above 20 mph without falling, I'll hail you as a god. If you've walked for the past 10 years without falling, eh, I haven't fallen down either and the speeds involved with falling down aren't nearly as dangerous.

The point is, the fall is inevitable on two wheels. It may not be often depending on your skill level and environment, but it will come. When it comes, whether or not you'll sustain a hit to the noggin will largely depend on the situation, but since we don't know the situation in advance, it all comes down to lady luck. So, do you feel lucky, punk? Do ya, do ya, do ya?

(Btw, your description seems to describe more confidence than competence. Some of the most confident people I've met have also been some of the most incompetent, possibly as compensation.)

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Re: HELMETS...?

Post by Icewrench » Aug 01 2010 4:54pm

So I used my helmet today.
Was out practicing fast turns in a parking lot.
Taking a right turn the front tire started to wash out saved it twice but lost it three times.
Held riding position till my shoulder hit the ground then it was crash on.
USEDHELMET&SHADES.jpg
There is a small flat spot on the edge of the helmet and the sunglasses are roughed up at the corner.
My forehead is slightly rashed from pressing against the helmet and my cheek is a bit polished from the sunglasses.
Otherwise from the neck up I am no worse off than I was before this crash.

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why we shouldn't wear helmets

Post by Dingo2024 » Dec 07 2010 4:13pm

listern and see what you think.........then comment here..........there is nothing like a decent discussion / debate :wink:

http://video.tedxcopenhagen.dk/video/91 ... dersen-why

Ian :D
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build thread; http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=18130
top speed now stands at 43.9 mph

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