Townie Go / Sram Service.... seriously guys.. come on !

Ypedal

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
12,530
Location
Moncton NB, Canada
Got a call from a local Moncton man last week, he purchased a Townie Go from Mike's Bike Shop..
http://mikesbikeshop.ca/product/electra-townie-go-196494-1.htm

Nice bike, i got to check it out first hand and had a quick test ride, PAS only ( no throttle ) and a 2 speed electrically shifted pedal gear hi/low with the SRAM e-matic product :

https://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/sram-e-matic

But, here comes the rub .... while picking up a few things from the local grocery store with his bike, his charger got stolen... bike was locked but saddle bags were vulnerable.. now WHY THE HELL would any idiot steal a damn charger.. beyond reason but it is what it is.

Regardless of how it happened.. the man needs a new charger !..

Simple .. right ?

oh no.. not simple at all it seems.. after multiple calls.. and weeks of waiting.. nothing from LBS..

He tried calling SRAM directly, who told him they do not deal with end users, he should talk to his local distributor... he tried calling Townie who told him they use the SRAM kit on their bikes, but they know nothing about it.. got no parts.. etc.. blah blah blah.. excuses and no solutions.

Imagine the frustration. paying 3000$ for an ebike and getting nothing but warm air....

Rub no.2 .. SRAM has made this pack proprietary to an extent, a generic 36v charger will not work because they use a 3 pin plug ( not XLR or RCA or any standard ebike run of the mill hookup ) that has a 3rd wire to enable charge somehow.

This, folks, is one major reason ebikes are not thriving in our local bike shops. .... unreal.
 
So... moral of the story is YPedal saved the day with some other solution right??

This is exactly what happens when some dudes with no ebike knowledge throw money at developing ebike gear.
 
The Electra Townie GO! appears to me to have been developed for the EU, since...the power is pedelec-only, it provides 250W, and also you only get power up to 16-MPH...all of those metrics are hallmarks of an EU-based design.

I don't know why anyone would want to try to sell an EU legal kit in the US, but I guess since they were in production, some middle-level exec figured...why not? The controller and torque-sensor (for the pedelec) is built into the rear hub, so externally, this entire kit is fairly sleek. There are only two parts, the hub and the battery pack (which we now know has a proprietary interface)...there is no option to use a throttle.

Electra was recently bought out by Trek, so...I don't know if this recent poor customer service is related to that. Trek sells the Trek Pure, which is visually very similar to the Electra Townie frame. The Townie GO! looks like a government-compliant system, because you can't easily splice-in another controller to up the volts or amps.

I'd like to see the insides, so...if the owner will mail me the rear wheel, I'd be willing to take it apart and add a temp sensor, then run the phase wires out of the hub to allow an external controller (such as the 6-FET reversing Lisui sine-wave controller that is working on the retro-direct Xiongda hub? http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58490&start=175#p924830 ). I can't guarantee that this will work, but as of right now...it's not working through the official channels either. By doing so I believe you can use 48V at about 10A for 480W, and a 25% higher top speed.

If I screw it up, I'll replace the rear wheel with a 500W Bafang-BPM wheel, but...that's the best I am willing to do.

http://www.electricbike.com/townie-go-250w-cruiser/
 
That's a sweet offer Ron!
 
For this area, fairly flat, and the owner in question is perfectly happy with the power level and the PAS only... that's not a problem at all for him.. he just wants and needs a new charger... that's all.

I have converted his wife's mountain bike with one of my kits, and it's been going very well !!.. :wink: ..

We are also working on electrifying his Giant Stiletto.. so he's committed to electric and is really loving it, just not getting reasonable support from the local bike shop, who seem to be hitting a brick wall with their supply chain... :evil:
 
Total bullshit they can't/won't service reasonable end user needs. Of course if they ever do, get ready for sticker shock! At that point I'd seriously look into Satiator.

I dunno how many 3-pin chargers I've opened up to discover only 2 conductors used. Sometimes that stuff is left over from Nickel battery era thermal protection.
 
Ypedal said:
x
He tried calling SRAM directly, who told him they do not deal with end users, he should talk to his local distributor... he tried calling Townie who told him they use the SRAM kit on their bikes, but they know nothing about it.. got no parts.. etc.. blah blah blah.. excuses and no solutions.
x
Could be his telephone skills are not so good? Try calling for him.
https://www.sram.com/company/about
World Headquarters
Chicago, Illinois U.S.A.
SRAM LLC
1333 N. Kingsbury, 4th Floor
Chicago, Illinois 60642
Phone: +1-312-664-8800
Fax: +1-312-664-8826
 
What???!!!?!??!
People in this day and age expect customer service? That's so '20th Century'.

Just hand over your money, keep your mouth shut and you won't get hurt.

(sorry, Just snarking... I'm dealing with three different situations of bad customer service, from supposedly reputable companies, and just recently settled a customer service problem with another big firm that took a full year to resolve, and none of it is actually worth the effort that it is requiring. It might help if I'd just learn to speak Hindi or maybe Tagalog.)
 
Charge port :
SRAM1.JPG

I went thru my entire connector collection, and i have quite the collection, nothing i have will fit this 3 prong wonder... i think it's Neutrik but not sure... if anyone recognizes it.

The discharge side :
SRAM-discharge.JPG

Main Pos and Neg in bullet style with 3 smaller pin hookup.. looks like modified PC vga plug or something..

I tried probing the charge port for polarity but there is no output... pack voltage 36.5v on the discharge side.

The charge port has 3 wires, Neg, Pos and a Yellow wire that connects to the BMS via 2 smaller gauge bundled together.

I only know 2 reasons for these 3rd wires One is to prevent someone from riding off while the charger is hooked up, or Temp sensor on Ni packs... but this is definitely Lithium.. light purple shrink on 18650 cells looks like Samsung..

edit to add : I " can " charge via the discharge port, but this usually means you got no over-charge protection... on BMS's that have separate inputs.
 
That output plug is a standard D-sub combination connector, there are many versions available,

http://showcase.designnews.com/sites/showcase.designnews.com/files/CON092%20IP67%20Combo%20D-sub%20PR%20image.JPG

I had looked at these myself for charger connections with the main power and all the balance wires in one plug.
 
The two chargers I have from bmsbattery.com are 3 pin but after opening up just the plug itself, the only connections in use are the +/-. The ground is just there but is not connected to anything. I had to open one up because it was making a rattling noise which turned out to be a stripped screw; I can't tighten the screw all the way down.

So basically you need a charger with a compatible plug to match up to the battery? Is there anything you can use here, http://electricscooterparts.com/batterychargerconnectors.html. What about chargers from here, http://electricscooterparts.com/36vchargers.html.
 
I have chargers, that's not a problem... the issue is that the battery side DOES use the 3rd pin ( I had a peek.. :wink: ) and the BMS will not allow the generic charger from functioning.

If i knew for sure what the 3rd, yellow wire does, i assume it ties to ground/Neg but without knowing for sure, i'm not willing to risk it.
 
.....From the bicycle retail industry side my observations.

Bicycle retailing industry as a whole has been a shrinking market in the last several years, to the tune of 2ish % annually. The industry is quite aware of this and are looking for the next big boon to latch on to in order to sustain itself. Think MTB explosion late 80's into the early 2000's. Stick around the innovations, be out front, promote it, but don't invest too much if the next big thing turns out to be a turd (marketwise).

As most are aware, the economics of years gone past are just not going to ever come back. The bicycle industry is now looking at areas of growth within a shrinking market.

Among a scant few others, those areas of growth involve electric bikes. Interbike of the last few years reflect this, an aging baby boomer generation, 1%'ers, and post baby boomers completely uninterested in traditional transportation methods all make up potential customer base.

The bike industry wants to capture sales but does not want to prematurely expand their infrastructure to properly accommodate the service (shop level) and product support (manufacturer level) that is required of an electro-mechanical machine like an ebike.

I think the best case scenario we see will be a gradual trend toward a modular component system on the ebike designs sold in bike shops. This keeps the existing mechanic from having to learn how to diagnose and trouble shoot a circuit board. They can simply unbolt a bosch mid drive unit and replace it with spare, or replace a bad throttle with coded plug. Then send the malfunctioning components back to the original manufacturer to deal with.

As the traditional bicycle market continues to shrink, bicycle retailer's commitment to supporting e-bike sales properly will be defined by the volume sold. Large component companies, Sram, Shimano, are now getting into electric bike product development. For traditional mechanical applications, they have extensive training programs offered for free to bike shop employees in order to competently sell and repair their products.

I was eyeing one of those Haibike Xduro's pretty hard - Currie is a US dealer for them and I can still get a pretty good EP on one. I just shudder to think of the down time I would have to deal with if a proprietary component were to fail.

Although I could, there is no way I would hack a part on a bike that retails for 5-7 grand. I am gonna see how their first few years go with the bosch drive and then go from there.

Len
 
the third pin may actually carry a signal voltage or sink a current from the charger itself. there may be a relay on the output of the charger or maybe on the bike itself that makes the charging connection when energized. or maybe just a mosfet on the charger output.
 
there is no way I would hack a part on a bike that retails for 5-7 grand

I certainly agree, I would make every effort to access the warranty for a legal claim to solve the issues. I only mean to imply that...if they will not fix the part under the warranty, and refuse to even reply...the warranty at that point is already useless. This would anger me if I had paid full retail price, partially to have a warranty and a local shop to fix the product (rather than dis-assembly and shipping the part to China).
 
Prices for The Electra Townie vary, but...a quick Google shows $450-$500, meaning that:

$2,500 - $500 = $2,000 for a 250W system that can only add power up to 16-MPH. Of course, the 36V battery does have a massive 7.7-Ah pack for miles of fun, so you are getting something for the extra $2,000 you will be spending on the electric version of the Townie...
 
Can anyone translate this? It seems to say check temp sensor> https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/Wde0fBOOy7-CiuaV4vE5FpOQhsFVmlPe2qbfWU_srdo/mtime:1399656381/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen0000000004435_rev_b_ematic_dealer_troubleshooting_guide_it.pdf
 
nicobie said:
$2500 for that bike is obscene.

I don't have that much in my Townie and it's at least twice the bike.

I know it's a difficult concept for many here, but there are riders that just want to unplug and go. Off the rack prebuilt bikes are worth every penny to them and 16mph is just fine. I find 18-20 more than adequate. We should be happy that there are those willing to pay and help build the industry. It's good or all of us. There's a large silent group on ES that thinks all the need for speed is somewhat laughable and even a bit goofy on some of the under built machines. Don't get twisted because in the end it's far less of value judgement than the fast laners spew. We slowpokes are well aware of the trickle down of data from the bleeding edge. Point? We're all on the same team. Little pokes and jabs, value judgements, really have no place. IMNSHO.


FWIW I'm a huge townie style frame fan. That's one nice ride!
 
I think for the vast majority of average potential E-bikers, 20-MPH is just fine. My biggest issue is the 250W power limit in the EU, that is just sad. I find the 750W power limit (with a mid drive or a 2-speed) to be very reasonable in those juristictions that are sue-happy at the smallest accident.

I am reminded that the US has available a "moped" class of vehicle that can go very fast and use very high power, but...license, registration, insurance, and add the lights, turn signals, etc...Martins Cromotor E-bike did this in Austria.

Electra clearly does not expect to sell many of these in North America (they are correct), and as a result there is no warranty support here.
 
Well, making " some " headway with this, at least getting replies.. both from SRAM and Electra. No action yet but at least there is communication .

...

And i agree with the lower power bikes being very much viable and good enough for a large portion of the would-be-ebike population.

Ripping along at eye watering speeds is fun, and most of the members on this forum fall in that group but being involved in ebike sales this year with motivation ( .. like paying bills ... ) i find myself surprised at how happy customers are with just entry level power. I"m just spoiled from years of messing around with high-voltage bits :p
 
spinningmagnets said:
Electra clearly does not expect to sell many of these in North America (they are correct), and as a result there is no warranty support here.
Judging by the 6 shops with 2-3 year old dusty unsold e bikes I visited, no one is doing very well with prebuilt EBikes. At least not in this part of the country. Sadly!
 
Back
Top