Buying Habits of Americans

I was listening to an interview on the radio the other day. The one being interviewed was the sales manager for a very large car dealer (they own at least one dealership for nearly every car maker – huge player). Since it was radio, I will be paraphrasing.

The interviewer asked why Volkswagen seems to be losing market share. His response was that they didn’t have any large trucks or SUVs. Since the price of gas started going down, that’s what everyone is buying.

Oh well (sigh)…

Since North Dakota is now the new Texas with all their fracking shale oil (guess we’ll be seeing nighttime soaps like “Bismarck” and “Big Sky” now), seems like we are right back to the same place. Probably puts the US dollar back on top and scares the heck out of OPEC and Russia though.

Eclectic said:

. . . . they didn’t have any large trucks or SUVs. Since the price of gas started going down, that’s what everyone is buying.

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Everybody KNOWS the price is down PERMANENTLY this time.

Eclectic said:

Since North Dakota is now the new Texas with all their fracking shale oil (guess we’ll be seeing nighttime soaps like “Bismarck” and “Big Sky” now), seems like we are right back to the same place. Probably puts the US dollar back on top and scares the heck out of OPEC and Russia though.

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Call the show 'Man Camp.' Such is the living conditions for the 6 figure income oil worker of the Dakotas. The stores had to ban motorhomes because people lived in their parking lots and left nowhere for the customers to park. I here the shelves stay pretty empty, business is better than they can keep up with.



I mean, a tornado waiting to happen. Or an alien attack, if you remember 'Independence Day.'

http://www.ienearth.org/front-door-stripped-off-mobile-home-as-forced-evictions-reach-new-low-in-bakken-oil-patch/

High priced gas never killed 4 door truck sales here. Now they will be even more popular.

actually the Eagle Ford and the Permian are now the largest production regions, not the Bakken.

Americans are trained by 24/7/365 tv, magazine, online, newspaper, and billboard ads to buy anything and everything they can to prove we are a FREE country. murder and terrorize every country in the world with the stuff we need to consume to feed the greed that is cultivated from birth until death.

class structure based on how big and expensive a car or truck you can use to kill someone else without being injured yourself. gluttony of no bounds so that people are so fat you cannot pass them on the sidewalk because they are so wide.

On the other hand the other way to carry a family of 6, the minivan, just flunked the hell out of their crash tests. What I see a lot out here is one person, usually dad, driving the humongous truck or SUV around all day by himself. They may need that thing on the weekend to tow their camper to the lake. But I just laugh at how foolish they are to drive the monster vehicle around town all week. Trucks that size cost a buck a mile to drive, if not more. $20 six pack of beer anyone? $10 loaf of bread?

Back when I needed one, I had one of those one ton trucks. But it never drove around with less than a half ton in the bed. Biked, or at least drove an economical car to work and back. Now the biggest car I have is a Subaru Forester, that I only drive when too sick to ride, or the trip is too far to ride.

Driving around all week in that one ton truck hauling nothing, it's definitely a size of wallet = size of dick thing.

You guys are being ridiculous. I have a 1 ton truck that I drive with an empty bed 90% of the time. I have no desire to murder anyone and I don't have "dick size" issues or more money than I know what to do with. Stop spreading this garbage antagonistic talk on the internet. If you want to change opinions of those driving vehicles that you have decided are too big/inefficient, figure out cool ways to bring your "efficiency" message into the lives of those you want to influence (e.g. POSITIVE stuff on places like endless-sphere). If you just want to vent because someone in a big SUV/Truck slighted you somehow, well, I guess there isn't much to be done about that.

A long time ago, I dated a girl that was on the cutting edge of getting organizations into Fuel Cell. I always said to her that "performance" type stuff is how to get typical people excited about efficient type vehicles... That's what got me interested in eBikes. Even if my motives aren't the same as someone wanting to get rid of their car, more interest in the area is better for everyone interested, regardless of their motives.

BTW, my 1 ton gets better mileage than the smaller vehicle I came from.

Happy Thanksgiving and blessings to you all and your family.

Cheers,

Mammalian

dogman dan said:

On the other hand the other way to carry a family of 6, the minivan, just flunked the hell out of their crash tests. What I see a lot out here is one person, usually dad, driving the humongous truck or SUV around all day by himself. They may need that thing on the weekend to tow their camper to the lake. But I just laugh at how foolish they are to drive the monster vehicle around town all week. Trucks that size cost a buck a mile to drive, if not more. $20 six pack of beer anyone? $10 loaf of bread?

Back when I needed one, I had one of those one ton trucks. But it never drove around with less than a half ton in the bed. Biked, or at least drove an economical car to work and back. Now the biggest car I have is a Subaru Forester, that I only drive when too sick to ride, or the trip is too far to ride.

Driving around all week in that one ton truck hauling nothing, it's definitely a size of wallet = size of dick thing.

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Hmmm... seems like someone is spouting old news. I had an Avalon that got 33 mpg on the highway and my Tundra wasn't much worse. The Prious was rated at 40 until wee found out that was a bunch of BS. So, was I supposed to cram my entire family into a prius to get, on average, around 3 mpg more or ride them around comfortably in a full size sedan?

Yeah, I made the right decision. The tundra handled 4 dirtbikes (packed in like sardines) and all of our gear and still got almost 30mpg.

I think it is more a size of family thing than a size of dick thing. In the US some of us still view children as a blessing.

@dnmun:

Ya' know, you are only a few steps away from Canada, If you hate the US so much, I am sure you can get to Seattle, then I think you can get there on 3 buses. 2 of them are only a $1 and the other is $2. Shoot me your email and I will Paypal you the $4.00,

Of course, then you will see just how free we are here and what a great nation it is. When I lived in Vancouver, I had to pay almost $40 CAD for a 12 pack of Coors Light. It is $9.99 here in NJ. The other $30.00 is taxes. You will find that is the case on just about everything else you buy up there, especially if it is considered a "sin". I hope you don't get sick up there because you can get a nose job faster than cancer medication but, hey, you are in Oregon where most insurance won't pay for stage 4 cancer treatment anyway but they will pay for the drugs for you to end your own life. That was a good call ya'all made.

It is just so tiresome seeing your negativity filled posts. Dude, Lighten up. Its not that bad. If you need a hug, I'll give you one of those too and I'll even pat your back.

God Bless you dnmun and everyone else. Happy Thanksgiving

I'll admit, my one ton was and old 1989 but low miles, and got a lot worse mileage than the current models. But it wasn't the cost of gas that made driving it expensive, it was stuff like tires that were $250 each. My truck was older, and on average needed a 500 buck repair about every 500 miles.

So what's your cost per mile on the one ton all in? Gas, insurance, payments including your trade in value, tires etc? Bet it's not less than 75 cents a mile. That does make an 8 mile beer or milk run a bit pricy. Lucky you if you live closer to the amenities.

As for cramming a whole family into a prius, when did I say you should do that? Of course you need a larger, and safer, vehicle to carry the whole family. 4 is the max you can cram into a typical 4 door car or hatchback, and only till the kids are in their teens and outgrow the smaller cars back seats.

No doubt many of the dudes I see driving around in their one ton do have a large family at home. And aren't putting many miles on the thing at a rate of 15 miles a day.

But I sure think it's funny, to see them when they are clearly doing a commute of a one hour drive to El Paso. Wearing out a $35,000 or more truck in 5 years. Sure, if your commute is 8 miles it may not save you much money to have a second small car. But to beat a big truck to death doing a 100 mile round trip 5 days a week is dumb. Bear in mind, in my state owning about 6 vehicles is pretty cheap. It's not $300 to get a plate for each.

I have to say the idea of a used civic has floated around in my head for a long time just for the reason you mentioned (total cost of ownership).

The other point you raise is a vlaid one. Texas is a big truck place and while I wouldn't mind driving a civic around town for work, I wouldn't want to cart my toddler around in it. We often hold the safety of our kids to a different standard...

On a side note, I finished a 2,700 mile trip to Yellowstone this summer with our 12k lbs fifth wheel. That was a big fuel bill!

People are going to have to wean themselves off of your flavor of jackassery before places like Austin improve significantly. I console myself with the fact that there are more people in my central neighborhood giving up cars entirely than those only downsizing from one stinking murdermobile to a smaller one. Ultimately, there are limits to how long decent people will participate in fouling their own nests. Just a few bellwether types now, but many more to come.

In any sane society, we'd have addressed pandemics like this long ago. I expect that automobiles will eventually become like slavery-- the thing whose broad adoption marks the ordinary people of our time as morally suspect to people of the future.

In the UK we are actively trying to preserve a future for our families. We don't expect the government to do it, they are all about money. We have to do it. That does not mean each person is expected to do their bit though, we know people are selfish. Instead, we chuck brake fluid over stupid vehicles and slash the tyres until the owners get something sensible. This is how to stop burning so much oil, which lines the wrong pockets with money. Nobody is expected to have sustainable transport, but commercial vehicles for family use is just silly.

I can't get insured on a van. Only businesses can have commercial vehicles. Though I can rent one for domestic chores. This puts a stop to a lot of selfish stupidity. I can buy a mpv though, or Rangerover. Not a flatbed though, but we rarely use such vehicles. Unsecured load space is of little use in the rainy UK.

Weight is the enemy of fun anyway. We are programmed to think bigger is better, but once you can rationalise things for yourself, only fat and boring gits want a big vehicle. They are just so dull. Only long haul vehicles should sacrifice handling for comfort.


In the UK, we think American's drive some right lardy rubbish, using leaf springs are vats of fat for suspension. Non of your sports cars can even get round a corner, they are just grand tourers in drag.

I'm happy that VW won't make lardy vehicles to keep a good market share. They have a good european grip on the situation. American cars, like many owners, need a gastric band.

Here we go again.

Ch00paKabrA said:

Hmmm... seems like someone is spouting old news. I had an Avalon that got 33 mpg on the highway and my Tundra wasn't much worse.

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My privious vehicle was a Tundra. Great truck but even with the V6 engine I was always getting 18 mpg. It didn't seem to matter if it was loaded or empty. I would say it's closer to half the mileage of an Avalon especially if you have the V8 engine. It was an expensive truck to drive. My friend's Tundra with a V8 engine gets even less mileage.

Ch00paKabrA said:

The Prious was rated at 40 until wee found out that was a bunch of BS. So, was I supposed to cram my entire family into a prius to get, on average, around 3 mpg more or ride them around comfortably in a full size sedan?

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Oh god, not again... Well my curent vehicle happens to be a Prius. I have never gotten anything as low as 40 mpg. 45 is the lowest I've seen. If fact with the aftermarket EV button I installed I get over 50 mpg in the summer and 47 in the winter (because of more use of the heater and defrost). Also, this car fits my family just fine. The back seat has more leg room that my wife's Eplorer. I suggest you google "ladder frame" construction and compare that to "unibody" construction. Probably a forth of the usable space gets eaten up by the ladder frame thus most of our trucks look huge on the outside but are less roomy on the inside.

Btw: I took the Prius with the four of us to Pheonix Arizona (from SF Bay Area) comfortably with luggage and everything last April, 70 mph all the way and I paid like $110 round trip. And that was with much more expensive gas too.

Ch00paKabrA said:

Yeah, I made the right decision. The tundra handled 4 dirtbikes (packed in like sardines) and all of our gear and still got almost 30mpg.

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You must have the long bed Tundra but if you consider 18 mpg to be almost 30 mpg you are badly mistaken my friend.

my dream is to live in a community where auto usage is a tenth or less of what it is everywhere. All of America seems to be the same. Cars everywhere. People are clueless to the problems they cause.

I owned a VW Jetta Diesel for about 5 years. I loved the engine but hated the electrical system. Always a bulb out or fan motor broken, I'm done with VW.

veloman said:

my dream is to live in a community where auto usage is a tenth or less of what it is everywhere. All of America seems to be the same. Cars everywhere. People are clueless to the problems they cause.

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I live in a place where that dream may become reality. Its the Commonwealth of Massachusetts smart growth mandate.

Smart growth is an urban planning and transportation theory that concentrates growth in compact walkable urban centers to avoid sprawl. It also advocates compact, transit-oriented, walkable, bicycle-friendly land use, including neighborhood schools, complete streets, and mixed-use development with a range of housing choices....

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Your dream can be accelerated by either: 1> moving to a place that has advanced that agenda (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_growth#Communities_implementing_smart_growth, or 2> staying where you are and working hard to make smart growth a top priority for your community.

Though we make strides every year to improve our city's walk/bike-ability, we're nowhere near Copenhagen, the current top rated city in the world and many of us are invested in accelerating the trend. My own decision to go car-free was significantly influenced by the visible adoption here of certain necessary principles, like transportation options. We really got on board with that and now have a state of the art multi-modal transportation center at Union Station. While I tout my eBike as the very best urban transit option there is, bar none, I didn't want to be trapped here. Longer distances are enabled a combination of a bus system (http://www.therta.com/) and rail transit system (http://mbta.com/) that accommodate bikes.

So yea, place has a lot to do with the ability of lots (>10%) of people to go car-free.

I've had 3 Tundra's in my Las Vegas years and none were like the mentioned mythical 30mpg model. I call bull$hirt. AND I've never seen a Prius as low as 40. And while I'm at it, the newest models are ceratinly family capable. We've had 4 Camry 4 cyl and none were consistent 33mpg like the mythical Avalon. My best mate in LV had several. The only way to that mileage is to be an abslutely miserable bastard of a driver and never use rapid accelleration and drive at speeds below the dominant traffic flow. IOW a PIA on the road.

That being said I've come to despise most cages and will bury the 2005 Camry when it's no longer repairable but at 90,000 it has just reached the halfway point.

I'm with my Greek friend, Honda and Toyota for most consistent reliability. At least in 45 years and more than a dozen vehicles, that's been our experience.

Chalo said:

People are going to have to wean themselves off of your flavor of jackassery before places like Austin improve significantly. I console myself with the fact that there are more people in my central neighborhood giving up cars entirely than those only downsizing from one stinking murdermobile to a smaller one. Ultimately, there are limits to how long decent people will participate in fouling their own nests. Just a few bellwether types now, but many more to come.

In any sane society, we'd have addressed pandemics like this long ago. I expect that automobiles will eventually become like slavery-- the thing whose broad adoption marks the ordinary people of our time as morally suspect to people of the future.

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<clapping>

Does the Volkswagen Touareg not count as an SUV?

Punx0r said:

Does the Volkswagen Touareg not count as an SUV?

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To the Americans it might as well be a mini Cooper

With cheap gas here again, I think we'll see more and more big pickups and suvs. Personally, I have an eye out for a cheap used hybrid. I'd like my wife to switch out her 30mpg car for something that does more like 50mpg. Gas cost isn't the issue for me. I am more of an environmentally conscious type. Afterall, I dislike breathing in exhaust fumes when on the bike. I try not to be a hypocrite.

t3sla said:

Punx0r said:

Does the Volkswagen Touareg not count as an SUV?

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To the Americans it might as well be a mini Cooper

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PLEASE don't put us all in the same basket. Some of us have been wanting solutions for years. We drove small cars exclusively until we moved to a major metropolis and driving a little cage surrounded by monster SUV's was terrifying. I bought a Yaris and drove it fro a couple thousand miles in Las Vegas. Regardless of how fast I drove EVERYONE felt compelled to pass me. It was the most terrifying car I ever drove. We have never had the same chices that the EU has had. I would have had a high mileage diesel 40 years ago if there was one sold here. The vehicles you on the EU and down under take for granted never make our market. I now live in a semi rural area in a small city. There are all sorts of smaller cars here. The Toyota lot has more hybrids than all other models combined on the lot. BUT the Ford dealership is almost exclusively land barges.

Ford is introducing a new all aluminum bodied F150 that will be a big improvement over the current rigs. I tease my relatives that work for them about electric drives all the time. They are starting to understand the advantages. Most of the other big makers will have to follow suit and improve efficiency. I am all in on a EV minivan when they have a reasonably priced one ready. I need all the room and then some to load it up as a cargo van.

There are some REALLY shady numbers in this thread regarding MPG. But if it makes you feel better to use fake/wrong numbers to defend your lifestyle.... do it.

I’ve always felt that using a commercial sized vehicle for personal transportation is a selfish activity. I fully understand that there is a need for large vehicles for commerce but there is a significant price paid by everyone else. Regardless of the fuel used by them, there are many other issues. Because of their sized, they take up more than their fair share on the road. A full width vehicle on a narrow road is dangerous to anyone trying to share the lane (like a bicycle or pedestrian). Because of their weight, they can be very dangerous to others in the event of an accident. With a standard sized sedan in front of me, I typically can see far enough ahead to have 5-10 seconds of reaction time, with a large vehicle in front of me, that reaction time is often cut to 1-2 seconds. If a current generation pick-up is behind me, I am normally blinded by the lights flooding the passenger compartment. Their size tends to make them a large obstacle in a parking lot. Don’t get me wrong, if you carry lumber and nail-guns or bales of hay every day, I don’t mind giving a little if it makes every ones life a little easier.

But if you drive it because it makes you feel safer (at the expense of everyone else) or because you can see better (at the expense of everyone else) or you need the extra space a few days a year then it makes me angry. If you carry a commercial load 1%-2% of the time, 3%-4% of the time for personal recreation and 95% for personal transportation, I find that to be very selfish behavior.

I assume that most who drive large pick-ups and SUVs do not consider themselves to be selfish. If fact I am sure that many are very generous with their time and money. I am also sure that most have a lot of emotional and financial arguments to justify the purchase and use of these types of vehicles. Unfortunately I don’t think that enough of them realize how much others have to pay for them to use that vehicle for personal transportation.

Simple solution is to pay registration fees by weight on a sliding scale. Super light transport motor vehicles pay little to nothing, and the over sized stuff pays a bit of a penalty. Commercial stuff on its own scale. This would help compensate for the added infrastructure wear and needs.