Forks over Knives <health>

[youtube]DZb-35oV_7E[/youtube]

Could the west be wrong about diet?
It really wouldn't surprise me. This looks like a great docu, although there's plenty more information on diet, anywhere you wanna look. Just be careful when only listening to media, commercials, and the status quo of an unhealthy culture; There's more info to be found.

Watched this documentary a while ago. Really enjoyed it. My SO is vegetarian and more fit and healtier then ive ever been. Have done some changes and are eating more vegeis and less meat, but its hard to quit it all.. Maybe one day?

You should watch a documentary called "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead". Bought myself a jucing machine after that, love it so much!

But it's not one size diet fits all. One of the side effects of my illness was a problem digesting any kind of food at all, just too exhausted for any of the routine body functions to work right.

Anyway, unable to digest them, carbohydrates became poison to me. The cure was cutting those vegetarian dishes, and replacing the carb calories with fat.

This problem was very hard to figure out, Doctors were clueless. Once I stopped eating carbohydrates I had a major improvement in 24 hours. 3 years later, and much stronger, I can now eat carbs again, but still have to limit the quantities. Occasionally the problem comes back, and I have to stop eating bread or potatoes for a few weeks.

What I'm trying to say is,,,, listen to your own body, find the diet that works for you.

I'd like to counter that one with an interview from the biggest critic of plant-based diets in the world ( who is a former vegan )

[youtube]rNON5iNf07o[/youtube]

If you're a vegetarian or vegan, this video will make you red hot mad. If you tried a plant-based diet and failed, it will do a great job of explaining why it did not work for you..

dogman dan said:

But it's not one size diet fits all. One of the side effects of my illness was a problem digesting any kind of food at all, just too exhausted for any of the routine body functions to work right.

Anyway, unable to digest them, carbohydrates became poison to me. The cure was cutting those vegetarian dishes, and replacing the carb calories with fat.

This problem was very hard to figure out, Doctors were clueless. Once I stopped eating carbohydrates I had a major improvement in 24 hours. 3 years later, and much stronger, I can now eat carbs again, but still have to limit the quantities. Occasionally the problem comes back, and I have to stop eating bread or potatoes for a few weeks.

What I'm trying to say is,,,, listen to your own body, find the diet that works for you.

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Oh wow, you're on the low carb, high fat track too, huh?

Carbohydrates became poison to me as well. I was vegetarian for a year and a half and it seemed like i was developing some kind of metabolic disorder and had very little energy as a result. This was mostly resolved when i started adding meat to my diet again, but eventually compounded again and i began to exhibit many symptoms of type 2 diabetes. My energy levels were a rollercoaster throughout the day, as well; from extremely tired to the point of needing sleep after a carb heavy meal, to 'alert enough'.

I had to plan my days around these ups and downs. It was a real bother.

My energy is still not optimal ( 'alert enough' all the time) after doing a low carb diet for 2 years, but i did lose 90lbs and have managed to keep the extra weight off since, and no longer experience the chest pains that used to haunt me.

I don't like where i am in the food chain ( the ethics of killing animals and eating them still bothers me ), but it is the only way of eating that allows me to be a functional and healthy human being. At the end of the day, your own survival takes precedence and asserting your place in the food chain is what you end up doing.

I am not vegetarian, vegan, highfat, lowcarb, or any of the labels like atkins, paleo, etc.

I thought that was the point of docu I linked. A whole culture's diet could be worse or better than others- look at the evidence of the general population health and disease rates across the cultures!

I do like eastern and mediteranean diets. Although I also like red meat and dairy and bread, I don't believe they work well as a primary intake, just as a garnish.

When consuming animal products, it's good to be educated in the differences between small and large scale production, especially in this country. Is your dairy sterilized? Growth hormones in cattle? How is the animal you are taking from raised and what are they fed?

When consuming plant products, same thing.
'GMO' is of particular concern imo. Look it up, and look into Monsanto.

Also, there are plenty of plants that offer enough fat for a highfat diet. Nuts=special? :lol: If you're not allergic of course!

The whole docu isn't on utube right now, but I took 'forks over knives' as simply = less animal food, more plant food. I'm looking for a docu that goes factual about culture vs disease, cuz I think US is #1 or close out of all firstworld nations.

I have no idea if the docu goes into it, or if you guys know about gmo's and monsanto.

GMO OMG
[youtube]AQUm5Qg4-5I[/youtube]
I like the guys take on the 'debate' in general

'According to Monsanto'
[youtube]N6_DbVdVo-k[/youtube]
So strange

[youtube]EzEr23XJwFY[/youtube]

sad these people have no idea
[youtube]eUd9rRSLY4A[/youtube]

are people really cool with foods that are modified by viral genetic splicing?
[youtube]2Oq24hITFTY[/youtube]

and on the topic of general fastfood culture
[youtube]PUspRBt7Kp4[/youtube]
[youtube]A3ThV5fwSaA[/youtube]
[youtube]zazn3CQEUI4[/youtube]

I got nothing against killing and eating animals, but I think its only fair that I want more of a relationship with the food, plant or animal, (and for it to be as 'natural' as possible), then to just be a consumer at the end of a long corporate chain.

I agree the modern western diet is a cancer causer as well as a bunch of different other problems....i've been vegan, i've tried low carb too when i was bodybuilding, and to be honest you can be fit and healthy on just about any "natural" diet whether it is vegan or low carb. The key is to keep doing physical activity and not combining sugary carbs, and proteins/sat.fats. Pick one or the other...

As for GMO, i have read enough to know GMOs are safe to use and have helped reduce world hunger by increasing yields (although also sucking the dirt dry of nutrients requiring more fertilizers). Some crops like Golden rice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice) has the potential to save millions of childrens lives. However some countries have gotten on with the whole Greenpeace anti-GMO thing and have denied their starving people GMO imports because they think it is "poison". When they have anti-GMO rallies I still join because I decry what Monsanto does to the farming business, the dirt and small farmers. But as for GMO I think they are a wonder technology, that helped bring about the Green Revolution and saved billions of lives, as well as temporarily increasing earth's carrying capacity.

Like among climate scientists, there is a 97% consensus that global warming is happening. Among food scientists, there is a concensus that GMO is safe. The biggest and probably only name you will find railing against GMO is Vandana Shiva.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/thanks-gwyneth-but-well-stick-with-the-scientists-on-this-issue_55c23d5ee4b0f7f0bebb34a4

I think its only fair that I want more of a relationship with the food, plant or animal, (and for it to be as 'natural' as possible), then to just be a consumer at the end of a long corporate chain.

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Look into GMO and Monsanto and decide for yourself.

Well if you want to get picky about it, GMO goes back to the first wheat field in prehistory, and the first farm animals. I don't understand how random mutations selected for are somehow safer than non random mutations. You can select a poor choice either way.

But I do agree, there is a line, and it's been crossed. I don't like the idea of breeding crops to stand even more chemicals to be applied. Mo better to breed for not needing chemicals. No question which way Monsanto leans. But how they do this breeding is not the problem, it's what they are breeding for that worries me.

My problem with carbs has nothing to with Monsanto, or it's GMO corn. It's purely a quirk of my digestion system being wrecked by chronic fatigue, that was a result of a virus. The symptom of my problem is a hangover, I was fermenting carbs instead of digesting them, since my stomach would not work right. So I'd be drunk every time I ate carbs, then hungover. I was fermenting to methanol, not ethanol, so I was not just drunk, but seriously poisoned. Methanol breaks down to formaldehyde, so I was literally embalmed for almost 2 years. No wonder I couldn't work back then.

Anyway,,, the point is listen to your body, and figure it out. It also took me about two years to finally identify the food I'm violently allergic to. Sesame oil, or seeds. It's in so much stuff now, it got very hard to pinpoint the exact cause and effect.

The real problem with GMOs is actually glyphosate and not genetic mutations in the crops.

Glyphosate is an environmentally persistent amino acid and hormone disruptor. ( read about it's mode of action, as described by the chemical companies themselves if you don't believe me ).

Glyphosate is in your drinking water in huge amounts, it's hard to avoid. It's also in the food you eat ( plants soak it up through the roots )

The other problem with GMOs is that glyphosate is losing efficacy and the industry is switching to 2,4-D, which is even more toxic. It was part of the formulation for agent orange.

That and the fact that GMOs are not adequately tested for safety and not labeled. We are all unpaid beta testers whose opinion does not matter..

Our modern farming system is completely insane and has left multiple toxic legacies in it's wake.

dogman dan said:

I was fermenting carbs instead of digesting them, since my stomach would not work right. So I'd be drunk every time I ate carbs, then hungover. I was fermenting to methanol, not ethanol, so I was not just drunk, but seriously poisoned. Methanol breaks down to formaldehyde, so I was literally embalmed for almost 2 years. No wonder I couldn't work back then.

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Wow, auto-brewery syndrome.. was it at least fun to be drunk?

GMO crops are dominating and creating a loss of genetic diversity. Think potato famine. A single gene type failed from disease. Since there were no variants planted hoards starved. THAT is a horticulturalists fear. That and a single corporation owning the rights to food.

That said, all you fat guys claim health from you diets and the failures of plant based diets. What do your blood profiles show? LDL? Total Cholesterol?

I lost 70lbs, dropped 4 drugs, arrested progression of kidney disease, even reversed damage called impossible. Stunning changes really. So far we're just sharing anecdotes without any data. I believe we may have very different responses to foods but I really think data is important to the discussion. Losing weight, for me wasn't the goal. Staying out of frickem hospital, arresting coronary heart disease progression was the major goal.

I eat loafs of spouted bread and 10-20lbs of potatoes biweekly, along with brown rice and dozens of corn tortillas.

neptronix said:

the industry is switching to 2,4-D, which is even more toxic. It was part of the formulation for agent orange.



Wow, auto-brewery syndrome.. was it at least fun to be drunk?

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2,4-D was here long before Roundup and is in nearly every weed product sold for home lawns. It's inputs are huge, and largely uneeded. Sad to watch all the clueless gardner put tons of this poison into our water! The big lie.

I won't even start on the pollution and disastrous co2 immersions from cattle operations. "Diet for a Small Planet" is nearly 50 years old and we still haven't caught on. Food will be the next nuclear bomb.

neptronix said:

I'd like to counter that one with an interview from the biggest critic of plant-based diets in the world ( who is a former vegan )



If you're a vegetarian or vegan, this video will make you red hot mad. If you tried a plant-based diet and failed, it will do a great job of explaining why it did not work for you..

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WOW! New Agey babble without peer review. Angry? No! Horribly disappointed at another internet study (if it's on the internet it must be true) void of decent science. Just WOW!

The real problem with GMOs is actually glyphosate and not genetic mutations in the crops

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I wasn't aware of a specific chemical name, but I assume that's the pesticide that kinda is in each cell of the plant? From what I understood, it's not just that the plants are resistant to pesticides and herbacides, they ARE a pesticide/herbicide !!!

That's the kind of 'crossbreeding' that borders on maniacal imo.
Plants and seeds classified as pesticides, because they are virally contaminated !!!! That is the only way to do it(my understanding anyway)- a virus is modified into the carrier, then the host is infected. Soybeans and Corn are the top two.

Look at the labels and see how much stuff has 'corn' syrup and 'soybean' oil inside? Well, BREAD is a big one, I can barely find a whole wheat bread that doesn't have cornsyrup, much less soybean oil.

I have a close relative that had a similar mystery illness (to you Dan) about 15 years ago. They called it this and that, he got tested for years! He's better now, and in better shape than before. Doctors didn't know shit and pharms didn't do any good, just diet and exercise, and whatever had to happen in his head.
Mind over matter, until I got no more matter to mind.
I learned alot of what I know from family I guess, having grown up on a small farm, in a envelope that was highly sensitive and connected to the root source of food.

'Refined' foods and GMO's are making people sick, yet they go unlabelled, and are pushed by mega corporations in advertising and government policy. WHY? Why not, it's the nature of what this system has become.

I lost 70lbs, dropped 4 drugs, arrested progression of kidney disease, even reversed damage called impossible. Stunning changes really. So far we're just sharing anecdotes without any data. I believe we may have very different responses to foods but I really think data is important to the discussion. Losing weight, for me wasn't the goal. Staying out of frickem hospital, arresting coronary heart disease progression was the major goal.

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That's excellent! And I agree, weight is secondary, but usually comes inline with a proper diet.

Just look at all the cutures that are far healthier than our sick nation. I posted a half dozen different documentaries I firmly stand behind on this subject.

Paleo diet: Big brains needed carbs
Importance of dietary carbohydrate in human evolution
Date:
August 6, 2015
Source:
University of Chicago Press Journals
Summary:
Understanding how and why we evolved such large brains is one of the most puzzling issues in the study of human evolution. A new study argues that carbohydrate consumption, particularly in the form of starch, was critical for the accelerated expansion of the human brain over the last million years. Eating meat may have kick-started the evolution of bigger brains, but cooked starchy foods together with more salivary amylase genes made us smarter still.




Understanding how and why we evolved such large brains is one of the most puzzling issues in the study of human evolution. It is widely accepted that brain size increase is partly linked to changes in diet over the last 3 million years, and increases in meat consumption and the development of cooking have received particular attention from the scientific community. In a new study published in The Quarterly Review of Biology, Dr. Karen Hardy and her team bring together archaeological, anthropological, genetic, physiological and anatomical data to argue that carbohydrate consumption, particularly in the form of starch, was critical for the accelerated expansion of the human brain over the last million years, and coevolved both with copy number variation of the salivary amylase genes and controlled fire use for cooking.

With global increase in obesity and diet-related metabolic diseases, interest has intensified in ancestral or 'Palaeolithic' diets, not least because -- to a first order of approximation -- human physiology should be optimized for the nutritional profiles we have experienced during our evolution. Up until now, there has been a heavy focus on the role of animal protein and cooking in the development of the human brain over the last 2 million years, and the importance of carbohydrate, particular in form of starch-rich plant foods, has been largely overlooked.

Hardy's team highlights the following observations to build a case for dietary carbohydrate being essential for the evolution of modern big-brained humans:

(1) The human brain uses up to 25% of the body's energy budget and up to 60% of blood glucose. While synthesis of glucose from other sources is possible, it is not the most efficient way, and these high glucose demands are unlikely to have been met on a low carbohydrate diet;
(2) Human pregnancy and lactation place additional demands on the body's glucose budget and low maternal blood glucose levels compromise the health of both the mother and her offspring;

(3) Starches would have been readily available to ancestral human populations in the form of tubers, as well as in seeds and some fruits and nuts;

(4) While raw starches are often only poorly digested in humans, when cooked they lose their crystalline structure and become far more easily digested;

(5) Salivary amylase genes are usually present in many copies (average ~6) in humans, but in only 2 copies in other primates. This increases the amount of salivary amylase produced and so increases the ability to digest starch. The exact date when salivary amylase genes multiplied remains uncertain, but genetic evidence suggests it was at some point in the last 1 million years.

Hardy proposes that after cooking became widespread, the co-evolution of cooking and higher copy number of the salivary amylase (and possibly pancreatic amylase) genes increased the availability of pre-formed dietary glucose to the brain and fetus, which in turn, permitted the acceleration in brain size increase which occurred from around 800,000 years ago onwards.

Eating meat may have kick-started the evolution of bigger brains, but cooked starchy foods together with more salivary amylase genes made us smarter still.

tomjasz said:

GMO crops are dominating and creating a loss of genetic diversity. Think potato famine. A single gene type failed from disease. Since there were no variants planted hoards starved. THAT is a horticulturalists fear. That and a single corporation owning the rights to food.

That said, all you fat guys claim health from you diets and the failures of plant based diets. What do your blood profiles show? LDL? Total Cholesterol?

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I've never had a blood profile done, but once my blood pressure and chest pains went away after adopting a high fat, low carb diet, i never bothered to get them done.

https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/search?q=cholesterol&restrict_sr=on

Most people who do a high fat, low carb diet report cholesterol numbers improving dramatically, and most are able to quit statin medications. See the link above to one of the largest low carb communities on the net.

It's important to understand how excess cholesterol is generated. It typically comes from inflammation trapping the stuff and forming plaques. Dietary cholesterol does not have much ( or any ) of a link to blood cholesterol levels at all.

Dr. Atkins explained this a long ago, while America was still deep in believing Ancel Key's completely fraudulent cholesterol and saturated fat hypothesis. The ladies of the Weston Price foundation have also asserted this too. It turns out that they were correct all along. Nowadays, you see that the demonization of saturated fat and cholesterol is going away. Even government policy is shifting tides towards focusing on vilifying sugar instead ( which they should have done many decades ago ).

For more info on this, you can watch 'fat head', which busts these myths and basically tears Morgan Spurlock's 'Super Size Me' a new hole:

[youtube]Fqn-Xe_2iCw[/youtube]

I'm finding that among my friends that will reveal their numbers it's not panning out. I hope, for those that believe the anecdotal evidence, it works out. I really do. I do tend to believe those who stay with grass fed and field raised meats have better results. Corn fed beef has an entirely different fat profile. The rest of conventional meats are stuffed with things I try to avoid as well.

I have no bone to pick here and can only rely on what has worked for me, and has solid data to show what those improvements were. Overtime Parnham posts his BBQ I drool... But for me the strokes, heart attacks, embolisms, and kidney failure dictate another view. Key words. FOR ME.

I also am unable to stomach butchering, so I choose to not to eat something I can't process.

WHOA! Accepting my government hasn't a vested interest in supporting conventional ag? Nope. I also have to look at the studies and see where they are funded. Atkins and science in the same sentence? Nah! Let's look at who serves on the Ag committees and heads the Dept. of Ag. Stuffed with former Monsanto shills.

I have a fun one for you vegans and meat eaters.
Here is Dr. Greger, who is a big name in vegan research ( and a vegan himself ), talking about cholesterol and omega 3. He admits that Vegans die of heart disease at a similar rate and explains why.

[youtube]q7KeRwdIH04[/youtube]

He still purports the disproven myth that saturated fat and cholesterol are still bad ( which is typical for a vegan ), but reveals why meat eaters and vegetable eaters actually end up with cardiac issues.

Hint: it's not meat, it's not vegetables, it's the kind of fats you eat and their balance.
A vegan, vegetarian, omnivore, and pure carnivore can all fall into this imbalance.

"it's the kind of fats you eat and their balance. " The claim of the grassfed movement, and the best tasting beef in my previous diet. Sadly we're quickly approaching the point of problems with sustainability. All the rage these days with palm oil is destroying forests at alarming rates. Face it, most Americans are wasteful slobs.

Dave, I think "The China Study" is now a free book. you might enjoy it.

Fun discussion! Thanks!

tomjasz said:

neptronix said:

I'd like to counter that one with an interview from the biggest critic of plant-based diets in the world ( who is a former vegan )



If you're a vegetarian or vegan, this video will make you red hot mad. If you tried a plant-based diet and failed, it will do a great job of explaining why it did not work for you..

Click to expand...

WOW! New Agey babble without peer review. Angry? No! Horribly disappointed at another internet study (if it's on the internet it must be true) void of decent science. Just WOW!

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Agreed. She also looks as if she's terribly unhealthy. Ashen, dark circles around her eyes, stained teeth... Also, the number of wild statements without any proof are astonishing. WOW indeed!