VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by Hillhater » Aug 14 2016 6:47pm

VW have been trading on past reputation ( 60s/70s Beetle, Combie van, Mk 1/2 Rabbit/Golf, etc) ....and false claims ( Diesel mpg) etc etc....for many years. But the reality is their quality, value, reliability, and customer service have all sunk like the Kursk !
A near new VW Eos is the only car i have ever had to stop, whilst on a commute, to top up the engine oil ! ...and thats even with the rediculous 6 monthly service intervals. ,
Take a look at the recent Customer satisfaction surveys. There are a few surprises !
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 14 2016 8:14pm

Hillhater wrote: A near new VW Eos is the only car i have ever had to stop, whilst on a commute, to top up the engine oil ! ...and thats even with the rediculous 6 monthly service intervals. ,
It's interesting to consider where those missing long chain hydrocarbons and detergents and exotic friction modifiers with exotic metals and things end up when a car 'consumes' oil.

Not so bad if one persons car sprays quarts of some partially combusted vaporized form of pretty interesting chemistry. When hundreds of thousands or millions of cars collectively spray thousands/millions of quarts in a bio-available vapor form to an un-unconsenting population inhaling it, it becomes an interesting product safety aspect.

I used to have various turbo engines I street raced with that would tend to become oil drinkers as ring land cracked from tuning issues or whatever. I am as guilty as anyone, likely sprayed more than any 10 VWs in my youth as an ICE racing enthusiast. However, I would not choose to do this same behavior in our singular atmospheric life support system today after thinking for myself about the reality of living in an effectively closed loop system. Earth is pretty impressively isolated by ~93million miles of vacuum. Last month alone I traveled through UK, Germany, Croatia, Hong Kong, and Japan (Tokyo police have my Phantom 4 for ~$2400 ransom now :pancake: ...I bought another used one in much better shape on Craigslist for $940 :twisted: ). It's only a relatively brief flight away to acces anywhere on the earth, the currently practiced model of treating it like an infinite dumping ground for billions to pollute at whatever rate they can afford is soon going to find the reality of how finite and closed loop this beautiful isolated tiny blue marble happens to be.

I will be the first to happily wait a bit longer in an electric aircraft to enable global travel to enable global EV battery consulting without burning/partially burning massive amounts of kerosene at high altitudes in this relatively razor thin layer of atmosphere that has been taken for granted to always magically remain in a life supporting condition.

Every penny and every man's effort who is currently participating in something that's tools cause harm (all militaries etc) should immediately drop whatever they are doing an begin applying efforts towards implementing solar and battery mass installation and RnD programs using the same funding that used to be applied towards insanely wasting resources for destructive purposes in a closed loop materials/atmosphere system.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by john*thomas » Aug 15 2016 8:14pm

Hillhater wrote:
john*thomas wrote:.......
I have a 2012 VW JSW TDI. It's been a great car. Almost 80,000 miles and I've done nothing to it. One of the best driving cars I've ever owned. I'd still drive it but with what they are offering, I''m selling. I didn't file any lawsuits but if they want to pay me far more than it's worth, well, I'm not going to turn it down.

I should be able to buy a similar equipped brand new gas version for what I'm going to get. I don't expect i will like it quite as much but.........whatever.
Have VW actually made you a firm, written , offer ?
If so, how much ?...
Or did the offer come with a "Gag" clause ? :roll:

Yes, it's all been through the courts and approved. $20,200 for a 2012 with 80,000 miles. I won't actually get to turn it in until November.
But, you would really still consider another VW, despite their behaviour in this and other issues ...( like the crappy DSG gbox, or ludicrus oil consumption, or astronomical service/ parts costs , etc !)
Without Federal pressure i suspect none of the VW diesel owners would be even getting a reply from VW Customer service departments.
There are much better quality and value products on the market than VW.

I've been a fan of VW since the early 80's. I bought my first diesel in 1983. I've had Jetta's, Buses, Rabbits, Dashers etc. I sold them new from 1987 to 1995. Yes, there are better quality vehicles on the market. I will not argue otherwise. Yes, they are sometimes hard to deal with if you have a problem. I've had absolutely zero problems with my car and I enjoy driving it.

There arent that many small wagons on the market. I am considering other options........I see where the new plug in Volt will get just over 50 miles on a charge. If i could convince the powers that be where I work to install a charging station for me I could drive back and forth to work for free (appx 50 miles round trip). I couldn't get one for close to the $20,200 figure even with the $7500 tax deduction though.

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by john*thomas » Aug 15 2016 8:20pm

Hillhater wrote:VW have been trading on past reputation ( 60s/70s Beetle, Combie van, Mk 1/2 Rabbit/Golf, etc) ....and false claims ( Diesel mpg) etc etc....for many years. But the reality is their quality, value, reliability, and customer service have all sunk like the Kursk !
A near new VW Eos is the only car i have ever had to stop, whilst on a commute, to top up the engine oil ! ...and thats even with the rediculous 6 monthly service intervals. ,
Take a look at the recent Customer satisfaction surveys. There are a few surprises !

On average diesels got better mpg than advertised. They weren't as clean as advertised. I think mine was rated 29/39. It was nothing to get into the 40's. High 30's as an average.

If I really, really tried, near 50 on the highway.

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by Hillhater » Aug 15 2016 10:28pm

i would agree that the VW turbo diesel was a very good motor.
But..that wont be quite the same in the future ,..if its available to you at all!,..
The petrol engines are the oil drinkers, especially the 2.0 turbo, and the DSG gearboxes have huge reliability and low speed drivability issues.
i too have had many VWs, beetles, golf GTis, EOS, Jetta, Tiguan SUV, .(.even a beach buggy !)..but i wont be caught again.
Maybe you dont have the same options of manufacturers as we do, but the current VW range has been well outclassed here, out engineered, and out valued by many other manufacturers these days. they rely on their past reputation and customer (like you) loyalty for future sales.
... maybe they will do you a deal on an Egolf ?
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by john*thomas » Aug 16 2016 7:02am

Hillhater wrote:i would agree that the VW turbo diesel was a very good motor.
But..that wont be quite the same in the future ,..if its available to you at all!,..
The petrol engines are the oil drinkers, especially the 2.0 turbo, and the DSG gearboxes have huge reliability and low speed drivability issues.
i too have had many VWs, beetles, golf GTis, EOS, Jetta, Tiguan SUV, .(.even a beach buggy !)..but i wont be caught again.
Maybe you dont have the same options of manufacturers as we do, but the current VW range has been well outclassed here, out engineered, and out valued by many other manufacturers these days. they rely on their past reputation and customer (like you) loyalty for future sales.
... maybe they will do you a deal on an Egolf ?
I just noticed you were in Australia. Yes other parts of the world do get some cool vehicles we never see here. I would have loved to have got my hands on the short lived Peugeot hybrid/diesel. I am not familiar with what all is available in your side of the world. My DSG has been great. I don't know many who have had a problem with them. And yes the diesel is likely on it's way out and truthfully to get them compliant has made them too complicated. I have considered a truck also. I really could use one but I just hate the poor mpg's. In a diesel you have to now deal with $18 a quart of oil. The DPF's. The very expensive fuel pumps. I'm not sure I'm willing to go there now in a truck.

I haven't been overly impressed with the VW electric vehicles. If I go that route unless VW offers something amazing to keep people in a VW I probably will not go that route if I go electic/hybrid. There is no way I can go full electric yet.

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by Hillhater » Aug 16 2016 8:52pm

We have limited EV/hybrid options also.
Toyota Prius, Prius C, and Prius V, Camry, Lexus, Volt, Leaf, iMev, and of course Tesla !
But the most practical, and affordable, at the moment is probably the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV , SUV, which has a 30 mile Electric range, combined with PHEV flexibility and 4x4 SUV/wagon capacity. Its also much cheaper (@ Au$30k) than any other elec drive at about half the cost of a Volt and 2/3 the price of a Leaf etc (1/3 the $$$ of a Lexus Hybrid !)
There is about to be a revised model released, hopefully with even more EV range.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by The fingers » Aug 25 2016 11:24pm

http://abcnews.go.com/US/volkswagen-com ... d=41648493We protect our own. :twisted:
Volkswagen has reached a "deal in principle" to compensate 652 VW brand dealers affected by its diesel emissions scandal, the company announced today.
The settlement amount has not yet been disclosed, but will involve cash payments to "resolve alleged past, current, and future claims of losses in franchise value," the automaker said in a statement.
Why Volkswagen May Have Risked It All by Allegedly Cheating on Emissions
Volkswagen -- which has admitted to installing "defeat devices" designed to circumvent EPAemissions standards in nearly 500,000 diesel vehicles in the U.S. -- earlier this year agreed to a nearly $15 billion deal to resolve claims it mislead regulators.
That deal included over $10 billion to buy back or repair affected vehicles and compensate consumers, $2.7 billion for environmental remediation and $2 billion to promote zero-emissions products.
At the time, dealers complained their woes were not addressed in that settlement. Today’s settlement involves a separate class action.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by LockH » Nov 22 2016 10:08pm

"Volkswagen CEO says sees case for building own battery factory: paper"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volks ... SKBN13F0N6
Europe's largest carmaker Volkswagen sees building its own factory to make electronic vehicle batteries as a logical move as it expands production of low-emission cars after its emissions scandal.
"If more than a quarter of our cars are to be electronic vehicles in the in the foreseeable future then we are going to need approximately three million batteries a year," Chief Executive Matthias Mueller told Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung. "Then it makes sense to build our own factory."
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by Hillhater » Nov 23 2016 12:03am

so, i wonder why they havent built a tire factory ?
..every one of their cars needs a few of those,..and they wear out and so need to be replaced every year or two. !
..Ahh, wait, i see.. there is more potential for profit in batteries i bet. 8)
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by TheBeastie » Nov 23 2016 3:35am

Anyone and everyone can build tires.. takes more tech to make batteries that dont burst into flames on consumers..

Another win for Trump is that VW has just announced they are going to build a factory to start making electric SUVs in the USA.. It makes sense as why would you try and build them anywhere else if he is just going to slap on a 35% tariff on them, as well as ensuring in the near future electricity can't go through the roof trying to build enough renewables to meet the future demand of evs, which I think is almost impossible.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium=social


And he got what he wanted out of Ford as well by saving those factories from moving to Mexico.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 3727028224

If there was media that focused on the good stuff Trump is already doing (at least for the USA) the news would be falling out of the sky with so much good news.. I can see why Trump absolutely hates the media..
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by LockH » Dec 23 2016 10:41am

"VW reaches deal with 3-liter U.S. vehicle owners":
http://seekingalpha.com/news/3232339-vw ... ners?ifp=0
Volkswagen (OTCPK:VLKAY) has reached an agreement in principle to provide "substantial compensation" to the owners of about 80,000 3.0-liter polluting diesel vehicles, a key hurdle to resolve the automaker's emissions scandal.

U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer didn't disclose the amount of owner compensation, which is not included in a $1B settlement announced earlier this week between VW and U.S. regulators.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by LockH » Dec 23 2016 10:57pm

"Judge warns VW owners not to strip car parts before buybacks":
http://www.recorderonline.com/news/stat ... 6921a.html

[snort snort]
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to cheat on emissions test'

Post by Izits » Jan 02 2017 4:24pm

The crime here is completely trivial. VW is in all likelihood being persecuted for political/economic reasons.

Of course, the real solution is to get rid of the EPA and all it's attendant corruption altogether. Change to privatized roads instead of government roads so the road owners can choose how much pollution you can make on their road. Finally, bring back strong property rights so the road owners don't allow more pollution than is right for that community. This makes the road no different from a factory, in that it has to answer to the community for how much pollution it generates.

A free market system like this will automatically seek out the optimum level of pollution that people are willing to live with/pay for. Furthermore, it allows different communities to have different standards of how much pollution they will tolerate instead of the same standard being forced on everyone. It also saves a ton of everyone's money by not having a wasteful bureaucracy.

Finally, it has the incredible benefit of all being based on peace instead of the coercion and violence required by taxation.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by Chalo » Jan 02 2017 9:29pm

That's a horrifying prospect. Let the people who are willing to pay to pollute decide how much pollution everybody must live with? It's almost what we have now, but without community standards. And what we have now is unacceptable.

I mean, if I could be assured that the polluters would personally breathe all their exhaust, then put it somewhere the rest of us would never be exposed to it, I have no problem with that.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by swbluto » Jan 02 2017 10:06pm

liveforphysics wrote: However, I would not choose to do this same behavior in our singular atmospheric life support system today after thinking for myself about the reality of living in an effectively closed loop system. Earth is pretty impressively isolated by ~93million miles of vacuum. Last month alone I traveled through UK, Germany, Croatia, Hong Kong, and Japan (Tokyo police have my Phantom 4 for ~$2400 ransom now :pancake: ...I bought another used one in much better shape on Craigslist for $940 :twisted: ). It's only a relatively brief flight away to acces anywhere on the earth, the currently practiced model of treating it like an infinite dumping ground for billions to pollute at whatever rate they can afford is soon going to find the reality of how finite and closed loop this beautiful isolated tiny blue marble happens to be.
All the carbon in hydrocarbons is coming from CO2 that has effectively been sequestered away by trees/plant-life/dinosaurs/mammals/carbon-lifeforms/etc. turning into oil. So, all that's really happening with fossil fuel combustion is returning the carbon back to the atmosphere from where it came millions of years ago. However, the relatively high level of NOX emissions is certainly novel to the atmosphere, especially when concentrated as it is in populated areas (Especially in areas where the average driving distance is absurd... i.e.... Houston.). I'm guessing it's negligible outside the populated areas.

What's intersting to me... however... is oxygen since it's being depleted to create CO2. But, if carbon dioxide emissions results in a warmer planet with a greater rate of evaporation/precipitation globally, then I guess that'd probably be offset in the longterm by increased plant life, as plants love the warmth, water (via global warming) and CO2 that fossil fuel emissions provide. So it's probably a wash in the end. I still don't know where new oxygen enters the system... however... recycling CO2 for O2 just gets the oxygen back... so it wouldn't increase oxygen levels over the longterm unless there were other oxygen sources.

It obviously comes from somewhere, to have arisen from nothing.

Image

Well... maybe all the oxygen came from CO2 originally (When the bluegreen algae started converting CO2 into O2, thus oxygenating the atmosphere)... so O2 has been really just riding off of CO2 all along. And, the C was just getting absorbed to form the cells in the carbon-based blue-green algae lifeform.

I wonder what happens to O2 levels if we burned off all the fossil fuel, initially. I know eventually, it'll get turned back into O2 by plant life... as it always has...

I wonder if places like those 2-mile-high cities (Like Bogota, Columbia) would become inhospitable to human life.

It would seem unlikely we'll burn off 'all the fossil fuels' anytime soon since society is rapidly approaching the point where fossil fuels are not cost competitive with solar, as fossil fuel prices increase and solar decreases. The vast majority of fossil fuels, globally, is likely too expensive to ever extract and refine. And, if it ever gets extracted/refined, it's likely because the ridiculously cheap and abundant solar will be creating/running the machines that do so, as it'd be unproductive to use fossil fuels from those sources to extract/refine fossil fuels from those sources. I guess the question is if we'll ever get to that point... niche applications for fossil fuels and all that...

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by The fingers » Feb 01 2017 12:58am

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by LockH » Mar 22 2017 6:03pm

Renault diseasels ‘are worst polluters’:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ ... 18_1519427
Renault diseasel cars emit the highest levels of toxic nitrogen oxides of all the big manufacturers and the French company’s recent models produce nine times the legal limit, tests have found.
A spokesperson from VW "Nah Nah, your cars are worse than ours!"

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 22 2017 8:11pm

If the data on that chart is correct, it would appear everyone making/selling a diesel car in Europe needs to cease and desist operations and immediately go to prison indefinitely with the VW folks for crimes against humanity and all living beings for the insane mass poisoning of the singular shared life-support system on our delicate spaceship.

"Air pollution 'causes 467,000 premature deaths a year in Europe"
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38078488


That means, in Europe alone, ~1300 people daily die from air pollution.

Globally it's between 3 MILLION to 7.5 MILLION (depending on who's numbers you trust) dying yearly from air pollution. That's ~8,000-16,000 deaths daily due to air pollution.

That's about 5.5 lives per minute wasted, or a few deaths before you finished reading this post even if you're a quick reader.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by TheBeastie » Mar 23 2017 1:01am

Really seems like a case of 'pick your poison'
Diesel cars emit nitrogen dioxide which really does kill people, and had made the 'evil car makers' rich.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_ ... _poisoning
https://youtu.be/m0Lt0pnSdKc?t=5m16s

Or you can choose a car with regular petrol/gas which emits CO2 which is plant food, is created every time we take a breath and helps warm up the planet most science say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkDgYLxp8Sg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-HcEpliMYk

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 23 2017 2:58am

TheBeastie wrote:Really seems like a case of 'pick your poison'
Diesel cars emit nitrogen dioxide which really does kill people, and had made the 'evil car makers' rich.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_ ... _poisoning
https://youtu.be/m0Lt0pnSdKc?t=5m16s

Or you can choose a car with regular petrol/gas which emits CO2 which is plant food, is created every time we take a breath and helps warm up the planet most science say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkDgYLxp8Sg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-HcEpliMYk

Im living proof you can also just have EVs in a household, and its possible to charge with only solar (though I don't personally have enough solar yet because ive given away a few kW of panels rather than using them myself.)
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

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Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by Chalo » Mar 23 2017 2:44pm

TheBeastie wrote:Or you can choose a car with regular petrol/gas which emits CO2 which is plant food, is created every time we take a breath and helps warm up the planet most science say.
Don't forget all those aromatic hydrocarbons and incomplete combustion products that stinking gas cars emit when they are warming up, being fueled, or leaking. Car drivers might like to believe their shit don't stink, but if you ride a bike among them, you know they're wrong. Gas cars are cancer machines just as surely as they are meat grinders.

But as Luke points out, you can also drive an electric car that runs on coal and is just as effective as a diesel or gasoline car at crushing people to death.
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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 25 2017 3:22pm

Chalo wrote: But as Luke points out, you can also drive an electric car that runs on coal and is just as effective as a diesel or gasoline car at crushing people to death.

No disagreement my friend. End of next month I will be a net grid provider from solar so I can help get your own ebikes off coal as well. I got the wife a Zero FX to be a lower kinetic energy vehicle than the LEAF, and if course ebikes.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

Post by nicobie » Mar 26 2017 1:34pm

Good for you Luke. I went solar about 3 years ago. Loving every minute of it. My Volt has 16k miles on it and if you don't count the long trips of over 200 miles, I'd still be on my original tank of gas.
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

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