POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

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POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Feb 28 2016 12:13pm

Anyone have any experience or recommendations with POS point of sale systems?

Pizza Restaurant.
2 phone lines
2 touch screens
cash drawer
receipt printer
credit card reader
bar code scanner
2 printers for different areas of kitchen

Programmer and installer of equipment is me. I have no experience but like to learn.

I am most concerned with SOFTWARE. Should be easy to set up with clear instructions. No buggy software. Easy to navigate menu. Green Olive button should be GREEN. Want to own the software. No monthly fees. Is there any good free open-source POS software? I will probably get confused with programming and need some telephone or email support.

Hardware should be quality and reliable.

Got a bunch of old heavy equipment that used Aloha POS software. Equipment is missing parts and looks pretty banged up. Think it would be best to throw old equipment in the scrap metal pile and buy everything new.

Restaurant is busy and using 3 part paper guest checks and a simple cash register.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by Simonvtr » Feb 28 2016 11:28pm

Have you looked into a mobile app POS system like apple pay?

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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by amberwolf » Feb 29 2016 2:52am


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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Feb 29 2016 8:26am

Simonvtr wrote:Have you looked into a mobile app POS system like apple pay?
Nothing mobile here. Restaurant is in a building with land line telephones and a internet connection.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Feb 29 2016 8:54am

amberwolf wrote:might any of these help?

https://www.google.com/search?q=open-so ... 8&oe=utf-8
Been searching and searching. I am a bit overwhelmed with choices.

Floreant POS :: Open Source POS for Restaurants
floreant.org looked interesting. Impressive colorful website, active forum, free. Looks like the software will do everything I want. See the software is tied to authorize.net credit card processing company. Merchants pay about 2.5% to a credit card processing company to suck the money out of plastic cards. Wish I had 2.5% of everyone's money for everything.

Don't like the idea of having the software tied to one credit card processing company. Think that the ability to switch CC processing company's is important.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Feb 29 2016 9:24am

From a "server" in the real world.
http://www.yelp.com/topic/honolulu-do-y ... pos-system
POSi pretty much dominates. I loved usig it- It is easy to use, straightforward, and very flexible, allows all kinds of crazy payment options, and allows holds for multiple courses. Micros and Aloha are very similar and both are okay. Squirrel is somewhat inconvenient, Maitre'D is the devil.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by mark5 » Feb 29 2016 9:38am

marty wrote:Floreant POS :: Open Source POS for Restaurants
floreant.org looked interesting. Impressive colorful website, active forum, free. Looks like the software will do everything I want. See the software is tied to authorize.net credit card processing company. Merchants pay about 2.5% to a credit card processing company to suck the money out of plastic cards. Wish I had 2.5% of everyone's money for everything.

Don't like the idea of having the software tied to one credit card processing company. Think that the ability to switch CC processing company's is important.
It's open source software, you'll have the source code, you are the programmer and are free to reprogram it.

( Floreant used sample code provided to them by authorize.net so you might be able to completely replace or remove them as the card processor. Authorize.net sample code here. Question is, do you even want to get into all this. )

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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 02 2016 6:13pm

Mark5 If this POS system ever happens? You hired. You be code programmer. Will you work for food?

I like the look of this HP terminal and cash drawer. Looks like the touch screen won't fall over when people poke at it. There is also a different bar code reader that I think might attach to the side of terminal?
rp7_hero_tcm245_2109279_tcm245_2128134_tcm245-2109279.jpg
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After adding up prices for terminals, printers, etc this might never happen? Option 2 - Clothespins, pulleys, string? Phone person writes the order on paper then clips the paper to the string. Some type of pulley system to take the paper to the kitchen about 20 feet away and around a corner. Not really sure how the string and pulleys look? I might have seen this in a past life and am having a hard time remembering how it worked?
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by mark5 » Mar 02 2016 7:20pm

Simple is better. I like the clothesline. Might vaguely remember having seen one used on a 3 Stooges show. Alternative might be a PC tablet with pen, premade MS Word order form, and remote printer in kitchen. Or there's Dale Harris' cash register program that has a kitchen printing program:
Kitchen
Depending on your business it may be required that you send the details of your transactions to an off-site location. If you have a restaurant you may need the food orders to be sent to the kitchen. This is what the KITCHEN.EXE program will do.

To run KITCHEN.EXE your registers must be networked together. The basic concept is that each register will transmit the details of a sale to the server. The KITCHEN.EXE program will run on another networked computer in the kitchen and will collect the individual transactions from the server and display them on the screen, you can also print the order from the screen. Another option is to not display the order at all and just have the program print them.

However if you only have one computer, two printers, and a long printer cable you can set up the one computer with both a LOCAL and a GLOBAL folder (see the "Network" section of this user's guide.). You can then set up the KITCHEN.EXE program to only print receipts and then print the orders on the printer in the kitchen. The KITCHEN.EXE program must be run from the GLOBAL folder.

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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by bigmoose » Mar 02 2016 7:44pm

Marty if you don't know about PMQ magazine and their message boards... here is the link to their sub forum on POS systems> http://thinktank.pmq.com/forums/pos-sof ... cussion.8/

Its a great group of pizza shop owners. The think tank is great for in-depth discussions on the trade of pizza "joint" ownership/operation.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by mark5 » Mar 03 2016 3:52am

Really good info in that message board bigmoose pointed to. Don't miss this thread wherein this free software option is mentioned.

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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 05 2016 10:29am

I have a obsession. Can't stop looking at pictures of POS equipment.
Panasonic
JS-925-Lite-ray_700.jpg
JS-925-Lite-ray_700.jpg (62.03 KiB) Viewed 3398 times
Talked to 2 Pizza shop owners and a guy who works for a credit card processing company. 3 guys were all in the same place. Things I learned.

http://floreant.org/ is set up to work with http://www.authorize.net/ Authorize.net is a gateway. They act as a middle man to send $ to most all money sucking companies. They charge every transaction to do this.

https://www.freerestaurantsoftware.com/ is set up to work with https://www.mercurypay.com/

Think to change credit card processing company I would need to pay POS software company to make changes or have Mark5 figure out code.

Both Pizza shop owners said the same thing. To pay for their POS systems. The system installer company took a higher percent of the credit card sales till the cost of the system was paid off.

I joined the Floreant POS forum. I can sign in but can not post. Guess I am not worthy?
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Windows XP or Linux?

Post by marty » Mar 09 2016 6:18pm

It's Happening!
IBM SurePOS 500 Type 4951-514
Terminal and printer bolted to top of cash drawer. Here is a picture of what it looked like before I took it all apart.
J4X51514.JPG
J4X51514.JPG (42.4 KiB) Viewed 3398 times
Specifications
http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bi ... NUS105-387

1.2 GHz VIA processor
256 MB of memory standard, upgradeable to 512 MB or 1 GB It's got 256 MB Ram in one slot. There are two slots. Will buy 2 - 512 MB if I can get it running.
8 to 64 MB UMA video memory
40 GB SATA HDD, 7200 HDD, or greater (standard options are available for solid state memory if required)
12.1-inch Resistive Touch, Active LCD model
A new enhanced wireless integration kit that provides optimum coverage and flexibility to meet country-specific wireless requirements by utilizing USB technology (USB Dongle not included)
Enhanced systems management
Port enhancements, including powered 24V USB ports, standard
A wide range of optional features including receipt printers, displays, MSRs, and trays to keep the counter neat

Operating system

PC DOS 2000 (no USB support)
Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Edition
Microsoft Windows XP


Took it all apart. Blew the dust out with a air compressor and cleaned all the plastic. This computer gots some nice heavy duty durable plastic.
20160309_145139.jpg
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Plug it in and turn it on. Starts up normally. Beep, white writing on black screens. NO OPERATING SYSTEM FOUND. RETRYING IN 5 SECONDS... Touch screen and BIOS seems to be working fine.

Next step is to install a operating system. My plan is to get this running on my dining room table and play with POS software. Want to try Floreant POS
http://floreant.org/
Enterprise grade POS followed Java code standard. Portable, application runs from even Pen drive, tested in Linux distros , Mac 10.4+ and Windows XP to 8.1.(Requires Java 7+).

What you all recommend for a operating system? Windows XP or Linux? Want this POS system to be fast. Computers will be used for POS and sending credit card information over the internet.

Not finding any drivers on the internet. Looks like IBM bailed out of the POS business and Toshiba took over.

If this experiment works will buy a second touch screen computer and also a back office computer [called a server?]. Both in the 2005, $100 range.

Edit: NO OPERATING SYSTEM FOUND. RETRYING IN 5 SECONDS... Hard Drive cable was not plugged in. My mistake. Carry on.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by mark5 » Mar 10 2016 8:48am

Not wanting to rain on your parade but:
1. You might find that VIA processor from 2003 underpowered.
2. Windows XP (and Java 7 on XP) isn't supported any more and you wouldn't want it connected to the Internet.
3. Searched and could hardly find any examples of that IBM POS terminal running Linux except for SUSE Linux Enterprise Point of Service which is Walmart scale--way more than you want.

So even if you could get Linux set up and running on it, no one else is doing this and you won't be able to get any help if you have questions.

There's a Youtube video below of someone running an old version of Ubuntu on that POS terminal but he's really just using the terminal as a thin client--i.e., a graphical display and touch screen keyboard--Ubuntu is really running on a terminal server on another PC and sending the screen images to the POS terminal. This way might be good if you could get it working really well.

So after you plugged the hard drive cable back in was an operating system found?

Search results follow below. They'd be useful if, for learning and challenge, you'd like to try installing and running Linux on that terminal.

SUSE on what hw is inside, what lan & hba drivers:
IBM SurePOS 500 4951-514
https://www.suse.com/yes/85280.htm

EloTouchScreen, Ubuntu Community Help Wiki
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EloTouchScreen

elographics touchscreen setup
http://who-t.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/el ... setup.html

Another elographics setup, if yours is same model terminal:
http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/Projects ... 500_Series

IBM POS 500 Touch screen Howto
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1152246

PXE network booting an IBM SurePOS 500 LTSP (Linux Terminal Server Project) thin client
https://youtube.com/watch?v=XYQtsHm1szw

How to get LTSP and Elo touch working
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1250206

Elo Touch Solutions Linux drivers downloads
http://www.elotouch.com/support/technic ... ers/Linux/

SUSE Linux Enterprise Point of Service Product Overview
https://www.suse.com/documentation/slep ... rview.html

Thinstation: A framework for making thin and light Linux based images for x86 based PC's, thin clients, kiosks, and maybe even your own Cloud VDI.
http://thinstation.github.io/thinstation/

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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 10 2016 1:08pm

Mark5 Wow! I owe you some food. Come to Buffalo.

Choose a random Linux - Lubuntu/Alternate_ISO Missing a kernel? Why reinvent the wheel? Did a clean install of Windows XP Profesional and service pack 3.

Mouse works. Touch screen not working.

Found big list of drivers here:
SurePOS 500/600 Series

Not seeing the correct touch screen driver for IBM SurePOS 500 Type 4951-514 Got the touch screen to work a little with one driver, forget which one? Will keep trying and report back.
Last edited by marty on Mar 10 2016 2:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 10 2016 1:47pm

292 pages of fun reading here!
SurePOS500_hardware_service_guide
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by mark5 » Mar 10 2016 4:11pm

marty wrote:Choose a random Linux - Lubuntu/Alternate_ISO Missing a kernel? Why reinvent the wheel? Did a clean install of Windows XP Profesional and service pack 3.

Mouse works. Touch screen not working.
If you have a Linux ISO image file, ImgBurn works good to burn it to CD or DVD. Rawrite32 is good for writing an ISO image to a bootable USB flash drive.
Lubuntu/Alternate_ISO is good, in particular the 32-bit minimal install ISO.

Difficult to google search for that terminal's touchscreen drivers at IBM. Expecting worse, didn't even try Toshiba. There are other branded POS terminals Elo touchscreen setup programs and drivers for Windows XP serial port like at
TekVisions Touchscreen Solutions.

A couple of Linux search results say that the serial port is /dev/ttyS4, which would be Windows COM5, to receive the Elo touchscreen's output. Other results say it's a USB port--maybe different model terminal.

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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 10 2016 4:12pm

Touch is working! Makes a chirp when ya touch the screen :D
Driver that worked = 4852-x2xtouchv050409b2 choose serial com5

Installed Java Version 8 Update 73 [jre-8u73-windows-i586]

Next step is to clean up the cash drawer, printer and put everything back together. Then will try out Floreant POS software.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 11 2016 9:18am

marty wrote:I joined the Floreant POS forum. I can sign in but can not post. Guess I am not worthy?
Finally I am now a proud member of the Floreant POS Support forum

Took me 3 tries to join. I was having trouble with the section > Additional Required Information (profile) > About User: > A few details about you > form box.

Finally I just told the truth:

"I am a computer chat robot troll named Marty. I have artificial intelligence and have been programed to join internet forums and argue about religion, politics, global warming, and Donald Trump."
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 16 2016 11:21am

marty wrote:292 pages of fun reading here!
SurePOS500_hardware_service_guide
That was the wrong Hardware Service Guide. Here is link to the correct one. Please save in your computers in case the internet shuts down.
Planning, Installation and Service Guide - Model 514

Another one :D
Operating System Installation Guide - SurePOS 500 Model 514
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Receipt printer no print

Post by marty » Mar 19 2016 11:43am

Update - Touch terminal and printer are bolted to cash drawer. Played with Floreant POS software. Seems primitive. Windows are too big for my small 800x600 touch screen. Receipt printer and cash drawer not working.

Did a 2nd clean install of Windows XP and installed all the drivers as per instructions in Operating System Installation Guide - SurePOS 500 Model 514

Receipt printer is not working. IBM part number 16K8537. Internet searches take me to IBM SureMark 4610

Back of computer looks like this.
4951-514 rear.jpg
4951-514 rear.jpg (45.52 KiB) Viewed 3243 times
Printer has two cables, 24V power the red one, and a serial cable, I chose serial A.

Cash drawer has a cable that looks like this:
cash drawer cable.jpg
cash drawer cable.jpg (28.71 KiB) Viewed 3243 times
I chose 3A for cash drawer cable

Got Windows XP running with no POS software and I am pulling my hair out trying to get the printer to print. Here is a link to:
SureMark Printers Hardware Service Manual
Open printer top cover. Press and hold the paper feed button for 5 seconds. The LED indicator will make one quick flash, accompanied by a beep, followed by a pause. Close the top cover. Prints customer receipt test OK.

Windows XP does not seem to find and install this printer. Install this printer driver.
Windows 32 bit http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.w ... s1R4000123

Printer driver installs no problem. Looks like the computer is not seeing the printer? Cables look OK and are all plugged in. Please see printer Offline image.
4610 Offline.jpg
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Find this chart in the Operating System Installation Guide - SurePOS 500 Model 514
ports1.jpg
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port2.jpg
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My guess is that printer is COM1
Add Toshiba Port.jpg
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Tried different COM1 port settings.
COM1 Properties.jpg
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Even tried following the instructions in the driver text file.
bits per second = Baud Rate set on the printer using dip switch at the bottom of the printer. For example 9600, 19200
Data bits = 8
Parity = None
Stop bits = 1
Flow Control = Hardware (if Printer dip switch set to DTR/DSR)
XonXoff (if Printer dip switch set to XonXoff)

Did not touch printer dip switches. They are set to default values. 4 dip switches. All off except 3 is on.

Wondering if something is not right with BIOS settings? I did not change anything. Did Load Optimized Defaults. Please see some pictures of the BOIS.
BIOS Setup.jpg
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Standard CMOS Features.jpg
Standard CMOS Features.jpg (112.08 KiB) Viewed 3243 times
Note model number 4851-514 sticker on computer reads 4951-514 that's close.
Integrated Peripherals.jpg
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Seial Port A IO.jpg
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Serial Port A IRQ.jpg
Serial Port A IRQ.jpg (118.93 KiB) Viewed 3243 times
When trying to print a text document or test from the Control Panel > Printers and Faxes > Toshiba 4610 > Properties > Print Test Page. Receipt printer no print :(
failed to print.jpg
failed to print.jpg (61.21 KiB) Viewed 3243 times
Sorry about the bad photography.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 19 2016 2:32pm

I like the idea of skipping having a line and some human to play telephone with to get your order placed. I much prefer the ease of ordering and paying via an app or website from my own device at my own leisure.

Moving forward it seems unlikely we will have less folks with smartphones in there pockets or less folks who would rather input there own order rather than having someone who doesn't care rushing it. This also means you don't have to pay a human to be standing there wasting there life with order data entry when the person ordering it for themselves can do a better job.

Lastly, many bay area restaurants in my area use an iPad as the POS station, and it seems to work quite nicely for swiping cards and ordering on a nice clear display.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by mark5 » Mar 19 2016 3:58pm

Maybe you can try using Windows HyperTerminal, create a direct connection to com1, type test data to the printer, & see if anything prints. Might have to uninstall the printer from Windows before that.

ETA: an IBM 4610 printer commands PDF doc

IBM 4610-1NR/2CR/2NR/TI4/TF6/TI9 SureMark Printer Demo Application: "The IBM 4610 Demo supports the IBM 4610 printer when attached via RS-232 and USB." This might be easier than using HyperTerminal or manually generating printer test data.

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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 20 2016 8:37am

Tried the demo. Installs and runs like a program.
demo.jpg
demo.jpg (37.55 KiB) Viewed 3196 times
Ready light is green. Computer is not seeing printer.
box.jpg
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Note the Connect button is greyed out.

My theory

Printer is from around 2005. Please see picture stolen from the internet.
$_12.JPG
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IBM receipt printer part number 16K8537

Printer driver is from 2015.
4610 SureMark Printer, Native Windows Driver
Old printer is not recognized by new driver. I need to update 4610 printer firmware, logos, fonts, messages and configuration. Read about it here:
TOSHIBA Diagnostics for POS Systems and Peripherals
Need a username and password. I filled out the form and will wait and see what happens.
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Re: POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Post by marty » Mar 20 2016 4:16pm

liveforphysics wrote:I like the idea of skipping having a line and some human to play telephone with to get your order placed. I much prefer the ease of ordering and paying via an app or website from my own device at my own leisure.

Moving forward it seems unlikely we will have less folks with smartphones in there pockets or less folks who would rather input there own order rather than having someone who doesn't care rushing it. This also means you don't have to pay a human to be standing there wasting there life with order data entry when the person ordering it for themselves can do a better job.

Lastly, many bay area restaurants in my area use an iPad as the POS station, and it seems to work quite nicely for swiping cards and ordering on a nice clear display.
iPad might be out of our price range? All I got to work with is a $20 bill and a few coins that I found when I took the cash drawer apart. Already spent $15 on a cable and $10 for some eBay RAM. Do like the thought of iPad tablets! I have seen a little POS tablet from the customer side in a Greek restaurant.
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