4 projects, just about to drop dime on first motor.

Hello, My first post.
I've been studying everything electric bike for a couple months now. I've picked up 4 bikes while studying, and am going to order the first motor tonight.


- First project bike is a new Schwinn Wayfarer. Picked it up at 1/2 price from a guy that didn't seem to be able to figure out the tire pump to finish assembly haha. <NO, I'm not kidding.
For this project, I'll be using a Ebikeling http://ebikeling.com/#/kits/19 500w geared rear hub motor kit with LED Control Panel/Display Meter-880. I'm wondering if anyone has taken one of these controllers apart? I would like to mount the LED lights, and control buttons to a custom made leather bag. The 880 looks like something you would see on a little kids toy bike, and for the project, the idea is to keep it so someone would have a hard time figuring out it's electric.

After the pain in the XXX to get it home, (thought it was assembled) I figured it was a clunker, and let it sit in the garage for a few weeks without even looking at it. Since then I finished assembly, and have been enjoying riding it. Not a classic made in Chicago Schwinn, but I like it.

I'll be hand stitching custom saddle bags to hang off the rack to keep the battery and electronics. Along with the motor tonight, I'll also be ordering some leather working tools. "Necessity is the mother of a new tool collection." I'll also be stitching up a long narrow and short bag to go under the backbone between the seat post and neck. This is where I hope to be able to put the 880 controller and inset the LED lights, on/off, and mode buttons into the leather. I realize I will probably need to get new switches and LED lights for this, I'm just wondering if I can pop apart the controller and solder on longer leads to do this? This bag will also hide a bike pump, tire repair kit and spare tube.

I haven't decided on a battery yet, but am leaning toward a Luna 36v 12.5ah. I know, small battery, and also I can get the same thing cheaper, but I like Luna cycles, and would like to support the company even though I can't really afford to at the moment. I really like their mid mount stuff, and will be getting one when I have the cash. If anybody on here is making them (battery packs) I could go that route too. I have $300 to spend on a battery pack, and the Luna deal would take me about $85 over my spending limit with their BMS (sold separately). I need to get a spot welder to start making my own.

I wanted to respoke the front wheel to a SA drum brake hub for better brakes, but realized I would have the current brake mounts on the forks left sticking out, or I would have to grind them off and repaint the forks. I don't want to repaint anything on a new bike! Maybe two brakes on front wheel? I have to relace the wheel anyway. New Schwinn's come with pre rusted spokes apparently, so I may as well add a SA drum brake. Also I want to match the front rim to the one I'm getting in the kit. Damn brake mounts trying to ruin my good time!

New tires! Schwalbe Delta Cruisers for their #5 puncture resistance. http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/delta_cruiser_hs392 I also noticed that they have tires specifically rated for ebikes. Some European guidelines, but it seems that the DC's would be safer due to their puncture resistance. I've had my share of blow outs and flat tires over the years on motorcycles, and given the choice, would rather have a slow leak than a blow out on at bike while cruising at 20mph!


- Second bike Is a Walmart special new mountain bike. I couldn't resist the $50 price tag. The frame seems decent enough for a 500w Ebikeling motor and small battery pack. This will be a lot less work than the Wayfarer. I'm going to hide everything best as I can except for the LCD controller. That will be up on the bars where it belongs. I'll be making a set of carbon fiber panniers for this one to hide the hub motor and store the battery and electronics. These bags, and the leather ones above, will be quick detachable to take indoors for battery recharge while at work or home. This is my work bike, and it never sees dirt, so I'm thinking a new set of Schwalbe Delta Cruisers for it too. Also matching the double walled rims to the one in the kit.

- Third bike Is pre 80's Nashiki mixte I picked up for my girlfriend. I like this bike a LOT! Same rear geared 500w motor setup with bar mounted LCD controller. Custom hand stitched leather bag under the dual back bone tubes fitting the space. I plan on having a spot welder by the time I build this one to make my own battery pack to fit the bag. Match & lace the rims, SA front brake, new tires, cranks & mousetrap pedals.

- Fourth bike is a KHS 700c hybrid. Pretty much everything is junk except for the frame, headset and forks. What I get for $35. I hope that by the time I get to this one I'll have the cash for the Luna mid mount Bafang BBSHD 1000W Mid Drive Kit! I'm thinking carbon fiber faring that follows the front and rear wheel circumference for this one. Everything but the controller on the bars would be hidden inside the faring. I want to go full crazy on this one. I've always been a go fast guy, and this will be the go fast bike. I figure if I can keep it in 2nd mode while on city streets, I can keep it out of the police impound yard.

That's it for now. Gotta start ordering tools & the first motor. If anybody knows if I can take apart the 880 and relocate the led's and buttons to new locations that would be great to know. Or another controller that would let me do this.

Ordered the 500w kit from ebikeling. If you order from their site instead of ebay, you need to call them to choose options. A selection prompt does not appear. You just get the paypal "your order is complete" page. Probably easier to just order from ebay.

I also picked up a bunch of leather working tools to make the custom bags for the battery and electronics. I've been meaning to get into this for years anyway. It took the electric bike project to get me going. Can't wait to get started on the bags and the bike!

Greetings!

It sounds like you are jumping in full force, and I like the different ideas and bikes you plan. I hope you end up posting some pics of the kits and your customizations, it sounds like alot of fun!

As far as that led display you could simply put in with the controller itself. I doubt you'll find much use for the speed functions, and the on/off button doesn't have to be up on the bars esp when you have an ebrake for safety. That just leaves the battery meter to perhaps glance @ occasionally. It should be fairly easy to just add your own volt meter for battery levels, and even your own on/off and 3 speed switch. It would likely be alot easier and better than repurposing parts of the 880 display imo.

One other thing to consider: it's good to have a removable battery/bag, but mostly the display and controller are easier to always leave on the bike. Otherwise you'd often be disconnecting the 11 odd wires from motor and throttle, VS just the two for battery power. Much will be self explanatory when you get your kit and start building!

Let us know questions about customizing controls then. Either a rocker or momentary switch should work for 3 speed switch, a latching push button for power switch, and there are many voltmeters/ battery meters that stand alone or integrate to throttle that will work for customization. Lots of stuff on ebay, and most of those three are fairly generic.

Thanks for the reply nutspecial.

Yes, all bags will be removable, expensive hand stitched high quality bags made from grade A 12-14 leather should be, but only the battery bag need be of concern for charging. Maybe a diamond collection could be brought into the motel for the night in the other haha. I'm kidding, but in reality, for a high quality hand stitched 3 set of bags, it will take me one week in labor to make. Maybe a little longer. With the decreasing value/purchase power of the USD due to sell outs in gov, these will not be cheap bags to make. I hope to reproduce them in limited quantity once I have the patterns down. I wasn't happy with anything I've seen, so I decided to make something better.

The Schwinn Wayfarer project was inspired by the "Raleigh Blackadder Path Racer (Edmund)" bike. http://velospace.org/node/33527 When I first saw it I said "I must build this bike". I spent days of researching bags for it that I would like and found nothing but my own ideas. So, I'm in the Pannier/Saddle bag business I guess. Now that I've emerged myself in leather craft education, I see all sorts of problems with the Black Adder bags. Cheaply made Chinese quality. Bad box stitching, or a saddle stitch where a box stitch should of been made. The stitch itself looks nice, but a 12 year old in a Chinese factory could do that with a cheap punch. The layout is all wrong and not symmetrical. No Varnishing or dying OR waxing of the edges. Already showing signs of age (brand new bags) on the grade D leather straps used for buckling. In fact, all the leather looks to be third world import quality. It's an insult to the quality Brooks seat on the bike to have these bags next to it. Having said all that, I still love the Black Adder bike. I love the way the mouse traps look on it, but think for that style, he should of went with rubber slabs. And the aluminum crank set? Not so classic is it? That is a pedal power bike, so aluminum is especially good for weight. On a Ebike however, not so important. I've found a three piece cranks set in SS for the wayfarer that has the identical sprocket. Not my top choice for weight, but it matches so I'll use that. Won't ever hog out. Just need to find rubber pedals in 5/16 instead of 1/2".

I'll just have to play with the controller. I've spent most of my working career soldering and brazing from 1/2" to 10" copper pipe, and rewiring my project motorcycles from scratch, but that is a far cry from a cold solder on a circuit board. I'll have to practice. I got a look at how a LCD is soldered in a control box today. I won't know how I'll be able to modify until I get it and take it apart. Shouldn't be impossible to do. I picked up a three diamond frame mountain bike today, and spent some time adjusting the brakes after changing wheels and tires. For the last guy who worked on those brakes, not only would it be impossible, I'm actually surprised he hasn't drowned himself in the shower while washing his face! Anybody ever seen the movie Idiocracy?

I still have a ton to learn about ebikes. The snowball just began rolling down hill with the 500w (edit) Geared ebikeling kit. It looks nice, and compact to help keep it hidden, but I suspect that the motor is the same as their 250\350w, but with a different control? Impossible to tell from the photo's on line. All the same photo 26/28, etc. In any case, everybody's gotta start somewhere, and it's always been my practice to start from the bottom up to gain a better understanding of the whole process. 500w geared hub, with 36 amp 12.5 amp hour on a 700c wheel is my starting point. I'm sure that in the early days, people had less to deal with than that.

-EDIT- for my first post above, where I mention the Luna Cycle battery I was looking at. I should of double checked instead of just going from memory.

This is the one I was looking at.
http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/36v/36v-13-6ah-panasonic-bottle-battery-sondors-compatible-upgrade-replacement/

It wasn't a BMS sold separately. It was the charger. My bad.

This seems like a good deal price wise, but is a little too big to put in my bags.

I've been searching all morning where to get a shrink raped battery pack with the BMS. Everything I'm finding is a lot more expensive than the Luna bottle battery. What a pain in the ass. At this point I may as well just buy the spot welder now and make my own.

I'm a newbie to triking at 88yrs young and would like to get into the ebike world, I have been looking at some of my options which include price, adaptability, and of course my age. My only housing for my trike is a enclosed carport which gets to about 115* to 120*F. in the summer and that worries me about all the electronics, they just don't do well at those temps. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks Nick R.

Nick R. said:

I'm a newbie to triking at 88yrs young and would like to get into the ebike world, I have been looking at some of my options which include price, adaptability, and of course my age. My only housing for my trike is a enclosed carport which gets to about 115* to 120*F. in the summer and that worries me about all the electronics, they just don't do well at those temps. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks Nick R.

Click to expand...

If it's enclosed, perhaps a swamp cooler would be an option. http://phoenix.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=portable%20swamp%20cooler&srchType=A

First try and first fail with ebikeling. They sent a DD motor instead of geared. I haven't measured the wheel yet, but I bet they F'd it up too. Why I ordered from Chicago instead of China.

eTrike said:

Arg. On the plus side, you now have the ability to use regen braking

Click to expand...

Haha, yeah, thanks for the laugh. I needed it! I doubt it does enough of that to run a headlight.

I'm stuck with it. Chalk it up to doing business with the Chinese. Even if they are in Chicago...

On the plus side, I could hot rod it to 750w. I will have to make my own battery pack to cover that, since I can't afford a big enough bat to supply juice to a 750w. So as they say, 'that takes care of that.'

No way in hell am I putting it on my Schwinn Wayfarer! That project for the style of bike requires a smaller geared motor in polished aluminum. I'll have to use it on the KHS frame. I wanted a mid drive for that one, but there will be other projects I can do that with. Maybe I'll go mid with the GT mountain bike I picked up last week? Frack!

eTrike said:

Ah well if its anything like most 500W DD hubs it can take 2000W+

edit: fwiw, DD hub motors are more fun imo. Mid and geared are more efficient, but unless I need max range I always ride the hub motor setup. Regen can be fun too-- gives 5-10% range on average (less with flat grades and fewer stops) but makes your brakes last ~5X longer, stop ~60% faster vs mechanical brakes alone, saves brakes on hills, etc. One guy posted results from a hill climb event recently-- he got 50% regen on the way down! This ebikeling error is a blessing in disguise

Click to expand...

2K? OK, that sounds better, but I still live in a hilly area. The bike I wanted to build first needs a smaller engine to look right on the bike. Efficiency was also at the top of the list. I may as well disassemble the Schwinn and hang it on the wall. The idea was to put it together, and hang a for sale sign on it for my commute to and from work. Not to make a bunch of money, but to maybe get a few more tools like the spot welder I need to make battery packs. The other bike I can use (700c) needs a TON of work before I'll be able to do that. I should pull it off the wall today and get started. I see a complete teardown and paint stripping on my list of things to do today. Good thing my crank puller showed up yesterday. I was just going to make a couple chain wrenches today, and do some fine tuning on some other stuff. I'll also have to make a tool to remove the headset bearing cups, and hope I can remove the BB somehow.

I think the F-Up wouldn't be such a big deal if I had the cash to complete the other bike and lived someplace like Kansas.

Did you contact them? They have a newer geared motor now. I too had a wrong part sent. Fortunately I live only a few miles from him. I got a frt and wanted a rear so he switched it out for me. If you don't want the DD contact Paypal about the mistake. The gear hub looks like a Bafang, runs very quiet but haven't finished the ride yet. Will let how it turns out when I finish.

Ulan is not Chinese and doesn't appear to know much about Ebikes yet. Kinda new here and trying, sells more than Ebike stuff, so not his main items.

Dan

DAND214 said:

Did you contact them? They have a newer geared motor now. I too had a wrong part sent. Fortunately I live only a few miles from him. I got a frt and wanted a rear so he switched it out for me. If you don't want the DD contact Paypal about the mistake. The gear hub looks like a Bafang, runs very quiet but haven't finished the ride yet. Will let how it turns out when I finish.

Ulan is not Chinese and doesn't appear to know much about Ebikes yet. Kinda new here and trying, sells more than Ebike stuff, so not his main items.

Dan

Click to expand...

I'll be calling later today. Unfortunately, I don't live in Chicago anymore.
I didn't buy from ebay. I ordered from his website. No mention of returns on site, but the ebay has plenty to say about how the buyer is responsible for return shipping.

In the Asian community, calling someone who is not Chinese, a Chinese is considered a insult. That was not my intent. The guy I talked to on the phone when ordering sounded Chinese is all. For the record, I've been trying to learn how to speak a little Chinese myself. I may not live long enough to see the changes on the horizon, but think it would be a good idea for everyone to learn a little. I even tell my Spanish speaking friends to forget about learning English. Better to learn Chinese and make more money. For a while most the customers I had were well to do Chinese. For some time all I knew (in order to be polite) was Hello (Nǐ hǎo).

DukeMoto said:

DAND214 said:

Did you contact them? They have a newer geared motor now. I too had a wrong part sent. Fortunately I live only a few miles from him. I got a frt and wanted a rear so he switched it out for me. If you don't want the DD contact Paypal about the mistake. The gear hub looks like a Bafang, runs very quiet but haven't finished the ride yet. Will let how it turns out when I finish.

Ulan is not Chinese and doesn't appear to know much about Ebikes yet. Kinda new here and trying, sells more than Ebike stuff, so not his main items.

Dan

Click to expand...

I'll be calling later today. Unfortunately, I don't live in Chicago anymore.
I didn't buy from ebay. I ordered from his website. No mention of returns on site, but the ebay has plenty to say about how the buyer is responsible for return shipping.

In the Asian community, calling someone who is not Chinese, a Chinese is considered a insult. That was not my intent. The guy I talked to on the phone when ordering sounded Chinese is all. For the record, I've been trying to learn how to speak a little Chinese myself. I may not live long enough to see the changes on the horizon, but think it would be a good idea for everyone to learn a little. I even tell my Spanish speaking friends to forget about learning English. Better to learn Chinese and make more money. For a while most the customers I had were well to do Chinese. For some time all I knew (in order to be polite) was Hello (Nǐ hǎo).

Click to expand...

Did you get anywhere with him?

The geared motor runs great, only about 30 miles so far. It sure isn't anything like my MACs. It is what I was looking for, little power with smooth takeoffs. Wheel is straight and round, so far. Had one loose spoke. right now I am using a 6fet Infinion from EM3ev. 20amp draw and appears to be getting about 3 miles per AH. Will know more later. For $140 it sure is a good deal so far.

Dan

Did you get anywhere with him?

The geared motor runs great, only about 30 miles so far. It sure isn't anything like my MACs. It is what I was looking for, little power with smooth takeoffs. Wheel is straight and round, so far. Had one loose spoke. right now I am using a 6fet Infinion from EM3ev. 20amp draw and appears to be getting about 3 miles per AH. Will know more later. For $140 it sure is a good deal so far.

Dan


No, I realize these guys only make money on volume, not enough on any one kit sale to cover any f ups. I'll use the motor in something. I'll try ordering from him again when I have the cash, and I'll let him know then about the screw up so it's less likely to happen again. That being said, all I'll wind up using is the motor. Everything else will wind up in the junk bin.

I'm not impressed with the rim, and would rather use 14ga single butted spokes, so I may wind up using it on my GT frame for a while after getting new rims and spokes. I will probably use the controller for a while with an inexpensive battery. I just haven't been getting enough work lately to have options.

Since the only part in the kit I see of any value is the motor, I may skip the next order and just get a 8Fun instead, if I can get it in polished aluminum instead of black. I think they may only make them in black finish these days?

Fit it into my KHS frame today, and it don't fit. Dropouts measure 130mm apart, and the (cheap) 7 speed freewheel needs around 1/4" more room. I'll try opening up the frame another 1/2" tomorrow. (1/4" each side). Then realign the drop outs.

I wanted to try it out for a few hundred miles like it is just to know, before I upgrade everything, but that may not happen.

A hub motor with a cassette may be worth a few extra bucks over a freewheel. So many more options. I bet if there is one with cassette, it would be a lot more than a few extra bucks. More like time to move decimals after the dollar sign.

-Edit- I'm tired and about ready to call it a night. Isn't the 8Fun set up for cassette? Rhetorical question. I'll look it up tomorrow. I seem to think it does, and not that much more expensive considering the rest of the other kit is junk and needs to be replaced anyway.

Yep. The 8Fun does come with cassette, but I don't see it in polished aluminum. I should probably just forget about a shiny motor and give myself over to the dark side.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-500W-8Fun-Bafang-Brushless-Geared-Cassette-Hub-Motor-For-Rear-Wheel/331976374581?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3D93e49692cd474ffca02378bdfb6a1278%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D232088804927