All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by AWD » Dec 22 2016 11:02pm

Took a good test ride today in the city. I agree with John, this motor is quiet, the only noise it makes is when you turn on the controller it makes a little thunk. I find it odd that Justin said to me that it would be louder when I was at the shop. I'm not complaining though. My 9c is fairly quiet but it made enough noise that people on the sidewalk would notice it and turn as I went by sometimes. Probably because they couldn't associate the sound emanating from it with anything familiar.

My 9c is a 48v/25amp system and peaks at a little over 1100 and this bike is 52v/25amp and peaks at a little over 1200. The one thing I noticed right away is that it doesn't have quite the snap off the line that the 9c does but it gets up to speed faster overall. Still will get you across the intersection in good order and that is all I need. I didn't get in to any steep terrain yet to see how that goes.

I went without getting a temp cable made but it hardly felt warm after my ride but it is about 10c here at this time.

Still no movement of the clamp. There shouldn't be any difference between regen and power as the shoulder bolt fits snugly in the slot. I have to get the regen going as I still haven't gotten the part I want to activate it with.

Here's a side story: I got a package too big for my mailbox last week and while interacting with a postal employee about getting it through the side door as to not have to wait in a really long line up front I managed to leave my key in the lock. I didn't realize it until today when I went to get it out of my wallet and it wasn't returned to the counter. I had ordered a small part from Luna that said it was delivered but it wasn't in my box so it seems that someone kept the key and has been monitoring my box. Cost me $40 to get the lock changed and new keys plus the $20 loss of the parts and who know what else they might have taken. I'll at least remember my key from now on.

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John Bozi   1 MW

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Re: Update

Post by John Bozi » Dec 23 2016 1:43pm

hjns wrote:OK, so this is absolutely rediculous!

I read again the PhaseRunner tread. Then it dawned on me to check the Grin site again. I downloaded the new PhaseRunner Software suite, installed it, and 5 minutes later I had a perfectly spinning Grin Hub Motor!!

Literally 5 minutes!!!

What did I do?

First, I started the Phase Runner Suite on my PC.
Then I connected the Phase Runner to the Battery Pack.
Then I plugged in the TTL serial cable in the Phase Runner first, and then into the USB port of my computer.
The Phase Runner Suite then goes flashing that the controller is connected.
I then followed the official Phase Runner User Manual as described here.
That means, I used the Autotune wizzard, and then set the correct settings for max power / volt, etc again. And then everything was running.

5 freaking minutes!!!

I had prepared for days of experimenting. Different hall/phase combinations. Different settings. Etc. But NO !
Gone are the days of painstakingly try every hall / phase combination.

Here sits a happy man.

Next steps are lacing the motor into the wheel, putting everything on my bike, and do some real world testing!!

HURRAAY, HURRAAY, HURRAAY for Justin and his Grin team!!!!! You really made the world a better place for all ebikers who care to take a look at the Phase Runner and it's super duper software suite! Well done!

BTW, the Phase Runner suite has a live dashboard. It is just extremely satisfying to turn the throttle, and then see the immediate motor current, battery current, motor rpm, controller temp, etc onscreen in the software Suite. Very welcome for testing!! Obviously not something to use when driving, but that's where we have the CAv3 + CA Logger for!!! :mrgreen:
I have totally ruined my programming.... the more I tried to get it back the less it works.

You HJNS would be my hero if you can send me your file.... pretty pretty please.

I think you just need to export your file and I just import it and hope that Im back to where I was before I opened mine.

I basically had over volt error and then I couldn't work out how to stop it, I auto tuned it and that failed and the whole thing just became un readable.

thanks a million if u can do this soon.... I lost a day to it yesterday....

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by AWD » Dec 24 2016 12:42am

Sorry to hear about your troubles John. I am no help whatsoever because I don't even know what you are talking about! You guys are on a whole nother level of understanding for sure and the power to boot. More power to you :twisted:

Weighed the bike on the way home today at a friends shop.
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I haven't gotten to weigh the black one yet but I have always thought it weighed around 50. Performance is gained on many fronts....

Got the cables tidied up for the most part at the bars, temp gauge working, lights aboard, and tools in the bag ready for its first full battery ride in the morning. It's only supposed to be 3-4c so I had better dress warm!
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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by John Bozi » Dec 24 2016 2:17am

NIce and light but man you got so much triangle there crying for some filling.

Never mind long story short I got it working by auto tuning at 12s......

I still can't get it to go over 22-3 amps...... regardless of what I set.

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by hjns » Dec 24 2016 3:33am

Hi John,

It's probably easier if you post all the specific characteristics of your battery, and CA and Phaserunner setting s,so other people can chime in as well.
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by hjns » Dec 24 2016 3:34am

Love your bike and the stories AWD, please continue to bring them!
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by hjns » Dec 24 2016 4:19pm

OK, finally the holidays have arrived. We had a great Christmas dinner, and most people have gone to bed now, so I have time to write something here.

In the meantime, I have had several days of experience commuting with the supercombo..

It is really great!

My normal commute is a relatively flat (200m overall altitude difference) tarmac bicycle- /normal road of around 15km length, with approximately 15 traffic lights, especially in town. I usually estimate 35-40min of travel, depending on the wheather, traffic, and mood... :twisted:

Well, with 2kW at the front wheel, and 350W at the rear, it is really a joy to both cruise and accelerate away from traffic lights. In town it is dangerous to drive fast, because, even though in the Swiss landscape most people know about fast e-bikes, most people still are not prepared for them. Therefore, I find that most of the time in town I go like 25-30km/h. However, on the dedicated bicycle roads without any people, it is very easy to do the maximum speed allowed for speed e-bikes of 45km/h. Obviously, the Grin Hub in the 27.5 inch wheel is capable of a bit more, which can be fun as well.

Accelerating away from traffic lights is cool. It is important to modulate the acceleration, and from a standstill I find that 2kW will cause the wheel to loose grip. A maximum of 1.5kW will give me maximum acceleration from standstill. However, once up to 30km/h, giving 2kW will quickly get me to 50km/h or higher. As the Bosch engine is electronically limited to 42km/h, higher speeds are really due to the Grin hub. So my most efficient speed is 41km/h.... which already feels slow.... :mrgreen:

I will now travel to another country with my family, so for the next 2 weeks, I cannot provide any update. However, I am more than happy to share anything else here.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all!
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

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John Bozi   1 MW

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by John Bozi » Dec 24 2016 11:43pm

I used bacdoor to set a few hidden paramters still not intuitive as phase runner suite which is not setting stuff as I add them.

I am up to 2700w or 32 amps, and have regen working smoothe love it. The push button and then twist the throttle to get as much regen as u want is senstational.

I have 2.7" minions which don't lose any traction at all on bitumen. On bumpy grass or dirt she skips and bounce a bit.

I have removed the CA for the mid drive and its unbearably, jerky,and pulses without all those lovely CA ramp features. It's so hard to not mono lol.

Now working on a custom tensioner to add in the couple more links necessary to get full travel out of the rear.

enjoy the break fellas.

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by AWD » Dec 25 2016 1:05am

My report:
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My rides take me to a variety of terrain and surfaces. My main ride objective is to get where there isn't anyone via road as quickly as possible and then poke around there for awhile. Take a few pictures and enjoy nature in its natural habitat. I live on an Island about 20 miles from downtown Portland and that is by design as living in the city is not my style.
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Some form of Concrete Henge that I came across and the Columbia River
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This pond with some amazing colored algae on it was the dead end of a trail I investigated. The island (Sauvie) is quite the sump and there are ponds of water all over and a big one in the middle called Sturgeon Lake because Sturgeon lay their eggs there.

The stats. My aforementioned poking around on rough ground cuts down a lot on my average speed but overall the bike performs much the same as my 9c. The 9c has more off the line as I once mentioned I think as it would chatter on dry pavement, my benchmark for torque, but the AA ramps up to speed faster and is smoother overall. And have I said how quiet it is? I was fussy enough and lucky enough to be able to use the fender that came on the bike so that they have clearance and don't rub and rattle which is a huge annoyance.
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Happy Holidays to all that read this!
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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by AWD » Dec 30 2016 11:53pm

Cleaned up v.1.0 today and got it to the scale to see what the weight difference is to v2.0
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v2.0 has been riding well with no issues. Rode v1.0 today and it still felt good. You can definitely feel the difference in the weight though in the handling.

Not a very white holiday here but some green at least to ring in the New Year
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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by John Bozi » Dec 31 2016 12:09am

sweet pics.

For a hard tail that's pretty heavy still. 40kg and I've got the fattest tyres and suspension running in aluminium.

I mostly love the front hub, as can be expected it drops harder and lifts up harder than I am used to but happy still. It's over 35 degrees C everyday including our ride on Thursday. The front hub spent a lot of time in the 100-120 degrees mark. Average speed around 30kmh and top speed 60kmh on gravel road.

Enjoyed it pulling through sandy bits instead of being pushed through them, Im not sure of riding logic here but felt safer than the other way around.

A lot of mud.... and humidity eeeeek.

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by AWD » Dec 31 2016 7:36am

"For a hard tail that's pretty heavy still. 40kg and I've got the fattest tyres and suspension running in aluminium."

Except those readings are in lbs. and to the rest of the world would read 23.4 and 19.6kg :)

That is some rough track there for sure and looks hot to boot. Pretty much the opposite here as the low temps this week are forecast to be in the -8c this week.

There is sand here that I like to go fool around in also. Even with the narrow tires you can really get through it with the front wheel pulling for sure. Mud too. They have had front wheel drive for years of course on vehicles and most 4wd vehicles use the rear mainly and then engage the front when going gets rough. With both ends going via the hub motor and pedaling it is a valid AWD format I reckon. I have climbed some pretty steep and loose terrain also that has surprised me, just not very fast.

https://youtu.be/KMpDDg4TPaU

And what goes up

https://youtu.be/dT2fGDMr91c

In over 33 yrs. of mtb'ing I have never accomplished getting a rock in my spokes and caught up in the fork legs like that before!

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by AWD » Jan 12 2017 12:33am

A forecast 4" snow "storm" turned in to a 12" dump overnight and after shoveling off roofs all morning I decided to give the AWD a try. It worked really well and would even make track (bottom right still from Go Pro) until the drivetrain would get clogged with snow and start skipping and the front wheel alone was not enough to keep momentum. I live in a park like setting which was perfect for trials!
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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by markz » Jan 12 2017 10:28pm

^I was eyeballing the snow today, was dreaming of the places I would go and make tracks in untouched pow. Saw some cross country ski marks on the river and thought to myself that would be cool to do on an ebike. Was thinking of riding through snow banks and snow drifts. Be cooler, cheaper and funner then downhill skiing. Which brings my attention to this. Do the downhill ski resorts that allow bicycles in the off season, are ebikes allowed?

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by DAND214 » Jan 12 2017 11:01pm

markz wrote:^I was eyeballing the snow today, was dreaming of the places I would go and make tracks in untouched pow. Saw some cross country ski marks on the river and thought to myself that would be cool to do on an ebike. Was thinking of riding through snow banks and snow drifts. Be cooler, cheaper and funner then downhill skiing. Which brings my attention to this. Do the downhill ski resorts that allow bicycles in the off season, are ebikes allowed?
Only one way to find out! Sounds like a fun time. Do you take the jumps?

Dan

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by AWD » Jan 12 2017 11:03pm

markz wrote:^I was eyeballing the snow today, was dreaming of the places I would go and make tracks in untouched pow. Saw some cross country ski marks on the river and thought to myself that would be cool to do on an ebike. Was thinking of riding through snow banks and snow drifts. Be cooler, cheaper and funner then downhill skiing. Which brings my attention to this. Do the downhill ski resorts that allow bicycles in the off season, are ebikes allowed?
I grew up skiing and did so for many years until moving away from reliable snow out the front door. If I could have accessed my XC boots/skiis from storage yesterday I would have been out on them as I much prefer that to bike riding on snow. But conditions being what they were it was a fun afternoon but I did a long hike on the beach today instead as the main road is still wiped out so I couldn't really get anywhere new to explore. I did spend some time exploring the possibility of getting an IGH though and put some feelers out in that direction. Thinking Alfine Di2 8spd if I can get some sort of shifter compatible with drop bars.

I did get my GoPro footage loaded and on YouTube though: https://youtu.be/cqANzfpmcJ4

I have no idea about the ski resort thing.

From today's hike.
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This was a very unusual event for Portland but where I used to live in Colorado has gotten over 100"es in the last 10 days which happened a few times when I lived there so it was pretty tame in comparison!

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by markz » Jan 13 2017 12:01am

I havent skied in decades. I am sure the technology is great for ski's and boots. I see them parabolic pow ski's and it makes me drool, not sure how'd they'd be for all around use, like GS turns on blue runs or slalom turns on black, or bumps, or velvet.

I rode down a ski hill in the summer 20 years ago, black run, saw some bears down the hill and waited. Fun Times!
Not sure how my body would do now at 40ish.

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Re: All-Axle Grin Hub motor meets Haibike FS RS 27.5

Post by zzoing » May 10 2018 8:35pm

That's a weird axle. Perhaps there is space to fit in some heat pipes through the axle.

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