EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Talk about anything and everything here within reason.
Post Reply
4LivesPerGallon   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 305
Joined: Jul 02 2015 5:12pm

EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by 4LivesPerGallon » Nov 03 2017 2:41pm

Imo, the Electric Bike Review (Mr. Court something is his name) deletes posts that are not in favor of companies.

Be aware.


Saw an ELF 2FR yesterday and inspected it thoroughly. I also uploaded a "review" on YouTube today. Yup, it drew an instant mini-crowd, after I flagged the owner to stop for a discussion. Here's my 2 cents, from a background in consumer law (litigating big bad corporations) and hobby-business of diagnosing ebike problems and other mobility devices, owning 10+ electric scooters, an emotorcycle, and ebikes since ~1998, as well as an award-winning inventor of the Revived Battery Electric Pickup Truck: Frankreview is imo correct that he should not be expected to fix electrical wires. No regular bike shop mechanic should play around with the ELF's wires. The location of the controller and the location of wires going into the controller, would make it highly likely that an amateur repair person would short something, leading to a "small mushroom cloud". I have had a couple of "small mushroom clouds". Even one mfg'r of e-trucks in BC mentioned that "plasma" from a short can be blinding. As a "judge" in this debate, I rule in favor of Frankreview. Orange Transit is at fault. If my opinion is removed in this forum, I will simply post it on my YouTube video of the ELF. Cheers, all.

4LivesPerGallon   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 305
Joined: Jul 02 2015 5:12pm

Re: EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by 4LivesPerGallon » Nov 03 2017 2:43pm

ELF 2FR, brief comments, not a review

Look at the YouTube video of an unedited ride through the rain puddles. The EFF rider screams as he gets his pants soaked. Anybody contemplating purchasing an electric trike should watch that video.


That was exactly my thought when I saw an ELF yesterday in Vancouver (nickname: Raincouver), BC.

All my e-rides have been heavily modified, and all (10+ easily, maybe even 20, since 1998) of them were working well when I either sold, gave away, or stolen.

If I owned an ELF electric trike, here's how I would mod them, for reliability:

- Install water splash shields by cutting coreplast and installing with zipties

- Make a partial floorboard of some kind. If would be a partial cover due to the components that would prevent building a complete floorboard.

- Liquid Tape in specific areas (a lot)

- Spray MG Chemicals Super Contact Cleaner where needed

- Add lockwashers on nuts

- Create a splash shield for the motor and other components underneath that are vulnerable to salt/rust

- Install two chain-cleaning wells as oil baths

- Get an air-bottle air horn

- Prevent the rubber grommets (where cables enter the ELF trike's body) from loosening, as seen on the one I saw yesterday.

For a future ELF trike re-design, or mod:

- Change to a gearless, brushless hub motor on the rear wheel, preferably a QSmotor with a matching sine-wave controller.

For those new to electric trikes: This "industry" has a history of failure. Look up the "cemetery" of electric bikes and electric trikes, at EValbum.com

For 10-year, daily drive durability, an ELF owner will need to do what I did to my electric rides. There are very few electric bikers in Vancouver with a working 8+ year electric rides. I still have all of my electric scooters in working order.

4LivesPerGallon   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 305
Joined: Jul 02 2015 5:12pm

Re: EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by 4LivesPerGallon » Nov 03 2017 2:52pm

Another ELF electric trike review, before EBR deletes them:

I took delivery of my ELF electric bicycle in January 2016, from Organic Transit.
I really like the idea for the ELF but most of the time the bike really does not operate due to electrical issues. The bike is really attractive looking. I think of that it looks like a little miniature Volkswagen Beetle. I can pedal it, however most of the time the electric motor does not work due to not receiving power for some reason. In the almost year that I have on the ELF electric bike I have only been able to drive it maybe 15 or 20 times. Sometimes that would work for a day or two or a week, other times it would break down in 10 minutes. Most of the year of 2016 I couldn't even use the vehicle other than peddling it and I asked the company to extend their warranty due to the many problems. The company did apologize to me for all the problems but refused to extend the warranty. Organic Transit has offered to put me on the phone with a technician, but I haven't yet done this as I do not understand electrical issues. I will probably have to try this as I don't seem to be getting help any other way.
My Elf is really neat looking. I have had a number of people come up to me and tell me they admire it. I even won at a car show with my Elf. That is all nice and everything but if I can't even drive it under electrical power what does it do for me? In addition the company says that they do not pay for labor even during the warranty period. I paid approximately $7,000 for the bike plus around $1000 to ship it but have not gotten much use out of it at all. At this point conscientiously speaking I would not be able to recommend it as a purchase based on my experiences. As I elucidated, I really do like the idea for the bike and I think there is some tremendous technology there, but if a product has quality and reliability issues it is a big problem. I have contacted the company about these issues probably 50 or 75 times. I have call logs email records and text messages. If an appropriate person wants to see records I am able to show my contacts with Organic Transit.
I honestly want no harm for Organic Transit. I wish them great success, but they do need to improve customer service and fix the reliability issues that I have experienced with the bike. The workers that I spoke with at Organic Transit were always very polite, that was not an issue. My concern was getting Organic Transit to fix the bike and as I stated to other venues, this has been very very frustrating for me. I have complained to the Better Business Bureau 2 times (Apr., Dec. 2016) but the BBB was unable to get Organic Transit to satisfactorily resolve the issue. At the moment I am also trying to get consumer help from some other sources such as NBC News for consumers or any other organization that may be able to render help to me.
Frankreview, Jan 7, 2017

Mar 2017. There are a couple concerns I would like to bring up regarding Maureen's response to my concern. Maureen works at Organic Transit which manufacturers the Elf electric bicycle.
Maureen said they sent me a new battery and a charger. That is partially correct and partially incorrect. Organic Transit did send me a new battery charger, but the battery as far as I know was never an issue. I was never sent a battery.
Maureen said that I was unwilling to attach the loose wire. That is partially true, as I am not an electrician. However the bigger issue may have been much larger than a loose wire. I am not sure about this. I do not feel that it is appropriate for an untrained person who is not an electrician to delve into electrical matters. If I were to do so and something got broken, burned, or damaged, Organic Transit could have turned around and said that I was somehow responsible for breaking the electric systems or the Elf, thereby denying me any further assistance. I did not want to experience this. I had previously elucidated all this information to Organic Transit by phone, by text, and by email. Communication was never an issue. On another note, if a customer were to get hurt when they were directed by Organic Transit to fix the vehicle what would happen? This could possibly said OT up to legal jeopardy. I personally don't think it is wise of Organic Transit to suggest that a customer try to repair something that is beyond their field of expertise.
On another issue, Maureen says that Organic Transit sent out a technician all the way from North Carolina. This is partially true, but partially inaccurate. The technician came from Kentucky or Tennessee, not NC. His first name starts with the letter M. He didn't exactly come out all the way but rather from midway across the United States, not North Carolina as Maureen in her statement claimed. M--- actually was the truck driver who made deliveries of the Elfs. He said that he had some kind of training in electrical or electronics, perhaps as an engineer, or similar. So that part Maureen neglected to mention. M--- was already out here in the area anyway, making deliveries of Elfs. However I do concede that Organic Transit did at least make the attempt to fix my Elf even if the vehicle ended up not working again which it did several times. In fact, again my Elf did work...for a couple weeks until it broke down again.
Maureen said that I did not send pictures of the supposed loose wire. In fact I can show that I sent a number of photos by text as requested. I still possess them on my smart phone. I have them stored in my device's memory. Organic Transit previously acknowledged that they had received those photos from me. Sometimes I would send them and then Maureen would ask me to send more photos, which I did. Organic Transit wanted me to get up inside the vehicle and take pictures of the electronic systems which I did take probably maybe 10 or 20 photos, or maybe more. Maureen expresses that I never sent the photos. Again she is inaccurate. Once again I can show on my device that I sent them and even received acknowledgement that Organic Transit had in fact received the photos sent by text. I do not understand why Maureen says I didn't send the photos that I did send.
Finally, try to put yourself in my shoes. I am not angry. I am just very frustrated. I am not rich, but I spent approximately $8,000 including shipment to buy a product that has not lived up to its expectations. I understand there are people out there who have an emotional attachment to electric bicycles. I am fully cognizant of this. However understand that when you buy a product you have an expectation that the product will live up to its claims. Unfortunately mostly this is not my case in this situation.
I am not out for blood. I am not out for revenge. But am I not allowed to express my frustration with the product that I had a number of problems and issues with? If you were in my shoes would you do the same thing? I have tried and tried and tried to get the Elf fixed.
Someone at Organic Transit had earlier communicated to me that at least some other people had similar issues such as I have had.
I do have some suggestions for Organic Transit. I suggest that they find ways to have wire harnesses preassembled that are completely reliable. I also suggest that they bring in some electric or electronic experts or engineers to help them troubleshoot the issues. Many people believe in Organic Transit's idea and I remain one of them. I just want to, in a friendly but firm way, encourage Organic Transit to be open to corrective ideas and to suggestions to ameliorate areas on the Elf that need to be fixed. There might be rich people or celebrities who support the environment or alternative transportation, or volunteers or electronic technicians or engineers, or similar who might be willing to volunteer to come in to enhance the Elf to make it a very reliable vehicle. The idea for the Elf fantastic. Now the reliability needs to be ameliorated.
It is my hope that those who are reasonable-minded who are reading this can see between the lines and infer from my text that I do not have ill will toward Organic Transit. I was just a customer who was frustrated venting feelings of disappointment, and trying to get what appeared to me to be a defective product, to be fixed.
I thank everyone, including Organic Transit who has responded to me. Some may agree, some may disagree. Look at the evidence, and I think you will see that I do make points that are truthful and needed to be expressed. Again, I can provide extensive documentation of contacts, letters, emails, photos, and some communication logs, if needed, that my motivation was just to get my vehicle fixed. Thank you.

4LivesPerGallon   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 305
Joined: Jul 02 2015 5:12pm

Re: EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by 4LivesPerGallon » Nov 03 2017 2:57pm

Anybody contemplating buying an Organic Transit ELF electric trike should look up this Yelp review of the manufacturer:


There are 2 1-star negative reviews, and a very suspect 5-star review by a poster (LInda G.) who has one 1 post. So, discounting the 5-star from a suspect reviewer, the Organic Transit ELF electric trike only has 1-star, very very negative, and 2017 reviews.

While I just Love pedaling my trike, it does have some issues. While in theory it's just bike parts and easy to repair it's really not. It's too big for most bike shops to look at and most don't understand it. I tried to ordered a left side freewheel from Organic Transit when mine froze. After a long wait, the reply was "we don't support that anymore". I had to search online and make lots of inquiries to find one that fit. It sees as they advance and sell more, the previous models aren't supported well. When the bike breaks it's a long time consuming process to get it going again.
The company's customer service and management are the worst I've ever seen and there's no authorized repair people anywhere..
Ordering parts is a long drawn out process of emails and they charge so much for shipping and handling.
Basically the ELF is really, really fun to ride, but it's a DIY project if you have trouble. Which for the most part I don't mind but it does get old.

I have one in my shop right now for a second broken axle in only 200 miles. The trike only has 1700 miles in it total. The company says this is not a known problem. The thing is, I KNOW IT IS. I have run into other ELF owners who have a retrofit added because of it. They have also addressed this issue with a design change.

To make matters worse, they company wants to charge us 95$ per hour to talk to us in the phone, we dont even want to talk to them, all we want is the retrofit kit. It has become pure insanity working with them.

I have worked in the bicycle industry for over 30 years and this is the worst customer service I have ever experienced. Not only is the product bad, but you get lied to by the service manager Michelle.

lastly, it takes them forever to reply to your complaints. the first time this broke it took over 20 phone calls to the sales department and at least 20 emails before they began responding. It took almost 6 weeks to get this fixed last time, and now we are already on week two this time.

do not buy one of these. These machines could be amazing, but the company is absolutely terrible. The owner should be ashamed.

4LivesPerGallon   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 305
Joined: Jul 02 2015 5:12pm

Re: EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by 4LivesPerGallon » Nov 03 2017 3:00pm

As a former consumer law advocate (for 5 law firms, long time ago) and as someone who has known Justin personally from 2008, imo, consumers should be made aware of companies that use "black" marketing methods. I am guessing that the poster named Popeye in the EBR forum is an agent of Organic Transit.

Regarding EBR, or Electric Bike Reviews, as someone who has reviewed more than 10 electric bikes and scooters, I noticed that Court was almost never critical of electric bikes. That, in my opinion, is why the manufacturers and distributors seem to treat him "too nicely".

Having owned and modified ebikes since 1998, and having received awards as an electric vehicle inventor, in my guesstimate, EBR is nothing more than a shill.

User avatar
liveforphysics   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14134
Joined: Oct 29 2008 1:48am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by liveforphysics » Nov 03 2017 8:30pm

4LivesPerGallon wrote: Here's my 2 cents, from a background in consumer law (litigating big bad corporations) and hobby-business of diagnosing ebike problems and other mobility devices, owning 10+ electric scooters, an emotorcycle, and ebikes since ~1998, as well as an award-winning inventor of the Revived Battery Electric Pickup Truck:

I've never heard of the ELF thing you're talking about, but on the topic of sketchy I did find your site where you charge $99 for a phone call to guide people into creating a hazard?

http://howtorevivebatteries.blogspot.co ... -page.html

Have you ever seen a clear lead acid battery? They became popular in Chinese scooters recently while many were switching to lithium.


That little gap at the bottom is where the various solids that form on the lead plates collect as they fall off. When it accumulates particulates until the bottom of the plates short against the amassing debris, the result can range from a gentle-self discharge event to an impressive fire.


FYI, you did not invent electric trucks or techniques to lower used lead-acid impedance. In 1896 there were already an in-service fleet of Heartford Electric lead-acid electric trucks, and lead acid battery swapping and rebuilding happening as a normal activity. It still doesn't turn missing plate material back into useful battery, nor does using a lead acid impedance tester show you the capacity in Ah of the battery, it merely has different settings to indicate expected healthy impedance for a given Ah capacity setting. Anything that improves ionic conductivity linking whatever stubs of plates are left inside the worn out lead acid will make that meter indicate whatever impedance you like, and hence able to draw whatever current you like (like doping the cell with more reactive ions in it's electrolyte), but it won't regrow missing plate area (capacity) and it will make it more of a hazard as added debris accumulates in the bottom of the plate area.

Whatever sketchyness the thing you're complaining about seems unlikely to be more sketchy or greater liability than charging people to advice them on using worn out lead acid or claiming to be an inventor of E-trucks or any of the many dozens of techniques for refurbishing lead-acid, unless you're at least a 120 years old and figured it out young.

Just my $0.02 as an outside observer.
I wish you and all EV builders and vendors the best!
lead acid decay.jpg
lead acid decay
lead acid decay.jpg (161.28 KiB) Viewed 868 times
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

User avatar
beast775   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1209
Joined: Jul 05 2007 11:55am
Location: victoria british columbia

Re: EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by beast775 » Nov 29 2017 3:46pm

EBR can delete whatever it wants to...hes just a passionate E bike guy trying to figure it all out.
2 FINGER SALUTE TO ESSO.no buying gasoline for 14 years now.
I spent all my money on bicycles women and beer the rest i just wasted.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10150
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: EBR (Electric Bike Review) deletes unfavorable posts

Post by markz » Dec 01 2017 6:22pm

I wonder if anyone spent the $99 for buddies advice. That is too funny Rob Matthies of Vancouver.

Post Reply