Stinging Nettle has health benefits!( page 10)

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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jan 24 2019 10:46am

i watched the cat video :roll:
having grown up on a farm with as many as 30 cats at once, it was instantly fishy.
and of course the whole study was a fake, which is why you posted it, to underscore how untrustworthy many studies are. good point! don't believe any study until someone trustworthy repeats and verifies the results.
But, there was 1 kitten on my farm that had been rejected by its mother, it had short front paws. At that time, my dad ran a butcher store, and he brought home fresh ground beef. I gave it raw to the kitten, and it loved it; would not eat anything else. named it ChopChop and it grew up just fine. So there is always a grain of truth to any story :twisted:
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by neptronix » Jan 24 2019 11:41am

Matt Gruber wrote:
Jan 24 2019 10:46am
i watched the cat video :roll:
having grown up on a farm with as many as 30 cats at once, it was instantly fishy.
and of course the whole study was a fake, which is why you posted it, to underscore how untrustworthy many studies are. good point! don't believe any study until someone trustworthy repeats and verifies the results.
Why do you think it is a fake? i did not post it to highlight fake science. What was found earlier in the study has been used in modern medicine today.

Francis Pottenger was an esteemed researcher in his day. He found the cause of tuberculosis and made significant progress in the diagnosis and treatment of endocrine disorders.

These kinds of studies have been done on dogs. It lead to the development of the BARF diet, IE paleo for dogs. Many people report huge improvements in their pet's health by reverting them to their wild diet. Many humans also agree with this approach on themselves.

Unfortunately, your reaction is not a surprise to me.. based on your prior posts..
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jan 24 2019 12:10pm

Why does the cat video look fake?
We fed all our cats cooked canned cat food(meat and chicken by-products) and they were all healthy, energetic, etc. (chopchop was the only runt)
Also the bit about raw milk vs. canned milk- we fed them all canned, condensed milk.
So, it instantly looks fake to me.
Must of had 50-100 cats total, over say, 15 years. Once we ran out of cat food, and i cooked a big pot of yellow squash (they would not touch it raw) and to my surprise they ate it all! :lol: Cats are not supposed to eat squash :shock:
.
So maybe he just needed funding at that time, and went on to do impressive work? Maybe it was a joke? i don't know. nothing looked real to me. I would not trust his work, unless verified by another source, which i'm sure his achievements were in fact verified.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by neptronix » Jan 24 2019 12:43pm

I think you missed the fact that this study was done for decades over generations of cats.
Since you've owned plenty of cats, you'd know that many of them go hunting on their own time to supply the nutrients they need.
The cats i owned that willingly went outdoors to do their cat business were vastly healthier than the ones that just stayed inside.
I knew they were hunting. They'd drag corpses of birds and rodents into the house. i'd find feathers and small bones in the backyard. Especially when digging around in the garden to plant a new crop..

I imagine you did not lock all of your cats in a pen for the entirety of their lifespans and exert complete control over what they ate.

The quality of scientific research in the early 1900's pales to what we see today, but you can't just brush it off unless you have a good reason for doing so ( IE seeing incorrect methodology )
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by billvon » Jan 24 2019 12:47pm

neptronix wrote:
Jan 24 2019 12:43pm
The cats i owned that willingly went outdoors to do their cat business were vastly healthier than the ones that just stayed inside.
Of course that would be the case regardless of diet. Having any animal in its natural environment does wonders for their health.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by rumme » Jan 24 2019 2:00pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 24 2019 10:31am
neptronix wrote:
Jan 24 2019 10:16am
The mouse utopia failed due to the effects of social disarray and a lack of purpose in their lives.
It is an interesting parallel to the kinds of mental illness and social disarray that happens in large cities. But worse.

Have you visited the rural American South lately? Those folks are fat, and insane, and drug addicted. They just have fewer diagnostic or treatment options than city dwellers. I reckon it's the same in other rural regions of the country.
100% correct as far as the obesity.

Then again, obesity in America seems to be the " new normal" and morbid obesity is becoming the new norm. I really dont play the stock market much, but if it interested me, I would seek out companies involved in new drugs for gastro intestinal issues/diseases because I feel that will soon become the major health epidemic in America . Its taken a few decades for the poisonous foods and fake sweeteners and chemical drinks to take its toll, but the negative effects are starting to kick in heavily, and of course those effects will show itself even quicker on this new generation of humans, that were raised consuming such poisons not only as children, but in the mothers womb as their mom"s ingested them.

I can only estimate the 10s of millions of people that will be improperly given drugs like PPI'S , for the rest of their lives .

I guess we are seeing the negative effects manifest themselves , because of the U.S. having such a glorious era after post ww2 . We got lazier, we got more neglectful to our health, and improperly raising our children and we were brainwashed to believe its normal to continually purchase things, we cant afford, and that massive debt was fine.

I never dreamed, I would see the day that a full size American made truck, could cost $70,000. Utterly amazing.

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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jan 24 2019 2:03pm

Gave it more thought. Back n the 1950's-60's there were Milkmen that delivered milk. So it would be good for business if people were convinced that canned milk was unhealthy. Everybody could buy cheaper canned milk at the store, and it would not spoil unopened, so why pay extra for fresh milk, if canned is good too?
So if you check for funding of the study, it would not surprise me to see donations from dairy farms or milkmen. The same problem exists today, business wants to increase sales and pays for a study.
Anyone has to laugh at the raw milk comparison. I don't think i ever drank raw cow's milk in my entire life! But if i had a farm with an abandoned baby calf, that is what i'd like to feed it, if it is available.
As for the raw meat, the researcher may of included the meat test to divert attention away from the dairy farms' funding.

And while our cats did catch mice now and then, there were too many cats and not enough mice! Once a friend shot a bird, and 3 cats ate the bird, and all 3 cats died, i guess from the lead.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by neptronix » Jan 24 2019 2:20pm

Where's your proof of this conspiracy you're imagining?

Well, i tried.. :lol: hopefully someone else got some value out of my post.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jan 24 2019 2:28pm

neptronix wrote:
Jan 24 2019 2:20pm
Where's your proof of this conspiracy you're imagining?.
Just watch Dr Gregers videos, he has to check the funding source before quoting a study. They simply can not be trusted................
Like the study that says more salt LOWERS blood pressure!.............. funded by salt mines, and the study is fake.
And the study that found chocolate has health benefits- funded by Hershey! surprised? Actually cocoa does have benefits, but hey, even if it a lie, it sure tastes good :twisted:
.
Does anyone eat RAW meat and drink RAW milk from a cow? :roll:
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by neptronix » Jan 24 2019 2:50pm

Greger has an extreme bias and likes to cherry pick studies to fit his position and ignore others, even if the methodology and funding is correct in a study that opposes his ideology.

I saw a video where he admitted underhandedly that vegans die from heart disease at similar rates as meat eaters. Of course, his answer is to supplement with non-bioavailable forms of these missing nutrients in the diet he espouses.

Yet he still holds the position that meat is bad for you heart because of saturated fat and cholesterol claims that were debunked a long time ago ( Ancel Keys' research was responsible for the origin of this lie and the 'standard american diet' was born out of Keys' lie. )
Screen-Shot-2014-05-23-at-9.53.00-AM.png
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Ancel Keys was funded by the sugar industry and valiantly defended them when his research was picked apart and a case was made that the correlation between heart disease and diet pointed more to sugar than saturated fat.

You'd think that if Greger was worth his salt, wouldn't run around parroting these things.

Here is the Greger video i'm talking about. Glad it's still up..

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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by rumme » Jan 24 2019 3:38pm

I have always been suspicious of studies and the claims of experts , especially if lobbyists and govt/politcians are involved to gain from it in nefarious ways. From food , health, prescription pills, and even climate change , I view all studies with suspicion because there are countless examples of errors and outright lies for the sake of $$$$ or fame or subsidies, etc.

I think this is 1 reason why both me and Neptronix use our bodies as guinea pigs as far as diets, health, supplements are concerned. Then again, what works for me positively or negatively, may not give the same results to others. We all have varying blood types , gut bacteria, metabolism, allergies ,heredity , etc , which means we all can act differently to stimuli.

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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jan 24 2019 3:43pm

Nep
i watched 23 min of that old Dr Greger video. That whole study turned out to be faked. :(
The oil and nut vendors were behind it. Yes it did fool dr greger for a while there.
The brain problems were from a lack of B-12, heart failure is often lack of magnesium.
I do take both of these.
I'm having a bowl of turkey soup for dinner, so i'm not a strict vegan, but i appreciate his efforts in trying to figure out why..........or why not.
I glad you feel better, and i'm pleased with my changes.
People try to boil things down to just 1 thing, and that is a mistake. Life is more complicated.
I did try the high fat diet for over a month - ate 4 eggs a day, but it did not help me and i don't like greasy food, so no loss in throwing out 42 eggs. ok $3.50 cash lost. Eggs contain choline which causes cancer to spread, and the "egg board" does not dispute this fact. so for me, i call eggs "junk food". I make a food by food decision, that is just 1. Truth is, eggs or ice cream gave me diarrhea once or twice a month, and now no problems in nearly a year. So i see real benefits to my eating healthy.
You don't have to defend your success, you should be proud.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by neptronix » Jan 24 2019 4:20pm

I suppose i'm not trying to defend my success so much as straighten out some things that should be common knowledge.

If you were a vegan, on the opposite spectrum of me, and had presented some fantastic results i can't argue with, then great.
There are people who have eaten nothing but meat for decades and had nothing but great results as well.
There are people who eat garbage processed food and get away with it.

Be your own science experiment and find out what path is best.

The sad thing is that oil and nut vendors are still allowed to lie, due to organizations like the American Heart Association who promotes a heart unhealthy diet.
People on the low carb side generally agree that oils rich in omega 6 are bad.

I read a bit about eggs. It seems that they can increase the risk of prostate cancer progression if you already have it.
The best defense against cancer is a low glucose levels. Far more cancers thrive on glucose than fat. But the list of ones that thrive on fat is far from complete or solid.

Some people don't do well with eggs though, so i understand why you call them junk food, but they're actually chock full of very bio-available nutrients. When i was in my vegetarian phase, eggs were the only thing that kept my brain running.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by rumme » Jan 24 2019 5:39pm

I would never consider fresh eggs from free range chickens { no antibiotics/steroids} to be " junk food" . IMHO, eggs are 1 of natures most perfect foods. Just because some people dont like eggs, or cant eat them, should not qualify them as being labelled as junk food. To me , junk food will usually involve foods that are manufactured, with added sweeteners , dyes, chemicals, hydrogenated oils, wasteful carbs, etc.


In America, the most widely consumed drinks, are soda pop . I think that is 1 primary reason why we have mass obesity, diabetes and declining health. Now, some people may say " but we are living longer : and my reply would be
" quantity of life does not equal quality of life. I would rather die at age 72 , quickly and painlessly, and have lived a healthy life, then live to be 80 years old, and had numerous negative health issues along with having to be on prescription drugs for decades to keep me functioning.

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Re: The food we were designed to eat- Dr. McDougall video( page 7)

Post by Matt Gruber » Jan 25 2019 11:11am

Here is the diet i ended up with:
:bigthumb: :bigthumb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxjHlbum394
Please don't comment unless you watch it. Thank you.
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Re: The food we were designed to eat- Dr. McDougall video( page 7)

Post by Chalo » Jan 25 2019 11:39am

Taking about the diets we were "designed" to eat is like recommending that people live in the housing conditions we evolved in. It doesn't make as much sense as looking at the diets of places and times when we prospered-- both in terms of health and longevity and in terms of productivity.

If you want to live well past 80, why try to mimic the diets of people who rarely lived into their 40s? Bread and beer were connected to a turning point in human history when we began to thrive. I doubt that's only random coincidence.
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Re: The food we were designed to eat- Dr. McDougall video( page 7)

Post by neptronix » Jan 25 2019 11:43am

Watched the video. Same stuff i am used to hearing from him when i was a vegetarian.
The 50+ year old lies about fat and cholesterol are echoed, of course.

I am very familiar with McDougall because when i was a vegetarian, i followed his thinking and thought he had a solution for me.
He had a stroke in his teens, and extreme digestive issues, which is bizarre.
It is possible that he is one of the rare people who cannot metabolize fat properly, and that is the core reason for his extreme bias and blanket denial of the value of animal based foods.

Basically his body is the exact opposite of mine. Starch is absolute poison to my body and results in a host of severe medical issues for me.

You should know something about McDougall's health today. He took a minor fall in his 60's and shattered multiple bones. This is not a surprise. The diet he advocates for it produces a medically significant vitamin D3 deficit. It it also a high oxalate diet. Oxalates bind minerals and render them unusable by the human body. Vegans often have low calcium counts because of this - despite consuming loads of calcium containing foods.

These kinds of multiple bone fractures would be normal for a 80+ year old woman, but not a man.

I know several lifelong vegetarians with extreme bone density deficits, to the point that it required either medical intervention, or supplementation of D3, which is an animal based food. Supplementation of D3 was not a complete solution.

These vegetarians i know also have all the signs of an extreme B12 deficiency, but i have not convinced them to supplement with bioavailable B12, which is animal based yet again.

Unless you had a stroke in your teens or some indication that you cannot metabolize fat or cholesterol, i'd take another route with how you eat.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by neptronix » Jan 25 2019 12:13pm

Chalo wrote:
Jan 24 2019 10:31am
neptronix wrote:
Jan 24 2019 10:16am
The mouse utopia failed due to the effects of social disarray and a lack of purpose in their lives.
It is an interesting parallel to the kinds of mental illness and social disarray that happens in large cities. But worse.
And yet major cities are where all the cultural and technological development happens.
This is true - and that is the point of having cities. But this lifestyle has a negative toll of it's own.
Chalo wrote:
Jan 24 2019 10:31am
Have you visited the rural American South lately? Those folks are fat, and insane, and drug addicted. They just have fewer diagnostic or treatment options than city dwellers. I reckon it's the same in other rural regions of the country.

Gender "dysphoria" as you put it manifests in cities because cities are more tolerant than BFE. People move to cities when they can't express who they are, where they are.
Yes, i've spent some time in the south and came back incredibly dismayed with the poor condition and lack of health consciousness of southerners in general.
I suppose i need to make a distinction that when i say 'rural people', i mean people who are generally living a subsistence, old school kind of lifestyle. This is different than a mobile home dweller in the middle of nowhere with a 2 pack a day smoking habit and a job at the local widget factory.

Gender dysphoria is indeed more common in cities because it's more accepted. However, the idea seems to be contagious amongst people looking for purpose or their own unique identity. Go to a city like Portland and you will find many people who thought they had a non-standard gender later realized it wasn't the case. These people have transitioned to different genders more than once. My wife grew up there and knows many people who fit this case. All of them suffer of some other type of mental disorder, in addition to being conflicted about their biological gender.

I am still trying to make sense of why people are drawn to this idea.

I believe it is yet another way to set yourself apart in a crowded social environment. Tattoos, piercings, and alternative lifestyles based on genres of music are out. The ante is upped now. :lol:
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Re: The food we were designed to eat- Dr. McDougall video( page 7)

Post by rumme » Jan 25 2019 12:50pm

Im not a fan of researchers who claim that since humans only ate nuts/meats thousands of years ago, that means those things are the only healthy foods we should ingest. The evolution of human genes/gut flora, etc has obviously changed/mutated over the centuries and each person is different. Theres even a " blood type" diet created for your specific blood type .


It seems like many vegetarians, want to force their way of eating, onto others and im against that mindset.


I think the best scenario, in a perfect and fair world, would be for each human to have the ability to experiment with different diets/foods, and chose the one that makes them feel, look and function the best. Of course, this isnt a fair or perfect world, and billions of people in 3rd world nations will never have that type of opportunity . Ironically, most people in the U.S. probably have that opportunity, but do not engage it , because it is far more convenient
{ and tasty ? } to just consume the endless soda pop, fast food, and junk foods that are shoved in our faces on tv ads, school lunch menus, vending machines , fast food drive thrus, etc.

I think the easiest and most beneficial single thing, the average American could do, from a health standpoint, would be to replace all their drinks , with filtered water. My brother in law drinks 3-5 Mountain Dews per day. He admits he is addicted to them and of course he is in bad health at age 60 . Thats thousands of calories of garbage and sugar he consumes every week .

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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by Chalo » Jan 25 2019 2:07pm

neptronix wrote:
Jan 25 2019 12:13pm
Gender dysphoria is indeed more common in cities because it's more accepted. However, the idea seems to be contagious amongst people looking for purpose or their own unique identity. Go to a city like Portland and you will find many people who thought they had a non-standard gender later realized it wasn't the case. These people have transitioned to different genders more than once. My wife grew up there and knows many people who fit this case. All of them suffer of some other type of mental disorder, in addition to being conflicted about their biological gender.

I am still trying to make sense of why people are drawn to this idea.
Tell me about it. I have a sibling, otherwise seemingly well-adjusted, who is gender non-binary (and vegan, and gluten-free for no medical reason). My impression of all these things is that they're attempts to exert unearned influence over other people. I don't know why "they" need that extra consideration, but there you go.
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Re: The food we were designed to eat- Dr. McDougall video( page 7)

Post by rumme » Jan 25 2019 2:42pm

Matt Gruber wrote:
May 05 2018 5:41am
September UPDATE:
Since my Dad lived to 96 eating 2 eggs a day, and never got heart disease, going from 3 or 4 eggs a week, to 28 eggs a week was a no brainer.
Impossible, the sociopaths in charge, have told us that eggs are high in cholesterol and clog arteries and cause heart disease.

I often take the info that the so called ' experts" tell us, as a contrarian indicator of reality. It only makes sense they would tell us eggs are unhealthy and fruit loops and white toast are healthy, because people can get their own eggs without the need of factories/companies, lobbyists . You really cant make fruit loops, at home . I call it
" the promotion of consumerism at the costs of our health and well being and realities "

It doesnt matter that margarine was unhealthy and they lied to us and told us it was healthy and better for you then natural butter. What matters is the corporations made billions of dollars by promoting lies and manufacturing a product for humans to ingest, that most animals/insects would not ingest when given the opportunity.

Dont worry its only 1 molecule away from being plastic..
EAT IT ANWYAYS..ITS GOOD FOR YA ! :wink:


Fool me once, shame on you, fool me hundreds of times, shame on me for not paying attention and being suspicious of proven sociopaths and their trends of deceit for profit.

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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by tomjasz » Jan 25 2019 4:20pm

neptronix wrote:
Jan 24 2019 12:43pm
I think you missed the fact that this study was done for decades over generations of cats.
Since you've owned plenty of cats, you'd know that many of them go hunting on their own time to supply the nutrients they need.
The cats i owned that willingly went outdoors to do their cat business were vastly healthier than the ones that just stayed inside.
I knew they were hunting. They'd drag corpses of birds and rodents into the house. i'd find feathers and small bones in the backyard. Especially when digging around in the garden to plant a new crop..

I imagine you did not lock all of your cats in a pen for the entirety of their lifespans and exert complete control over what they ate.

The quality of scientific research in the early 1900's pales to what we see today, but you can't just brush it off unless you have a good reason for doing so ( IE seeing incorrect methodology )
So there have been no evolutionary changes in 4000 years of domestication? You make huge assumptions based on cherry picking research. FOR YOU keto works. I'm another of those that'd be dead in weeks. We all seem t want OUR way to be THE way. Smacks of the religulous!
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Re: The food we were designed to eat- Dr. McDougall video( page 7)

Post by tomjasz » Jan 25 2019 4:22pm

rumme wrote:
Jan 25 2019 12:50pm



It seems like many vegetarians, want to force their way of eating, onto others and im against that mindset.


Vegans and agnostics are always the first to extoll their wealth of ideas.
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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by neptronix » Jan 25 2019 4:29pm

tomjasz wrote:
Jan 25 2019 4:20pm
So there have been no evolutionary changes in 4000 years of domestication? You make huge assumptions based on cherry picking research. FOR YOU keto works. I'm another of those that'd be dead in weeks. We all seem t want OUR way to be THE way. Smacks of the religulous!
You missed the part where i said if it works for you, keep doing it.
I already explained the nuances where some people die eating my way. And some people die eating yours.
And we've already had this argument. And you managed to not get into ad hominem and throwing out strong accusations without anything to back them up ( cherry picking? )

Bad day today, Tom?
Efficiency is everything :bolt:


My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: ? on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.

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tomjasz   1.21 GW

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Re: Free food for mice and they all end up dead!( page 6)

Post by tomjasz » Jan 26 2019 12:50am

neptronix wrote:
Jan 25 2019 4:29pm



Bad day today, Tom?
Nah, just the usual curmudgeonly view. But thanks for asking.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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