Independence Day - Guidance for Celebration

Locally here in Santa Cruz. . . the wealthy home owners along the coast... have used their influence.... to attempt to subdue celebration by utilizing city/county resources in the following ways:

(For the last 10 years running)

1) Roadblocks on [strike]every[/strike] many public access routes to the coast (Causing EPIC impact to safety and travel)
2) Temporary (expensive) fencing along [strike]every[/strike] many beachs
3) Generator trailers with very bright lights on tall poles
4) Security Guards posted at regular intervals
5) Increased fines and penalties
6) Crackdowns in the surrounding counties that allow sales of fireworks
7) All hands on deck with the police force
...


The rational for this expensive oppression revolves (partly) around the following:

1) Their dogs get upset by the noise

Rebuttal: Instead of setting off mortars at the beach, they just do it 3 blocks back in the neighborhoods, greatly increasing fire risk and risk of harm in general.



2) Fire Risk to $5M, mostly uninhabited, triple-insured homes on the coastline

Rebuttal: Instead of setting off mortars at the beach, over the water and sand, 'they' just do it 3 blocks back in the neighborhoods, greatly increasing fire risk and risk of harm in general.... creating an atmosphere of totally uncontrolled chaos instead of somewhat contained chaos.



3) General detritus and trash on the beaches

Rebuttal: Most of that trash comes from small ground fireworks, not mortars


4) ...


Guidance

It is independence day
Celebrate it as we have traditionally

1) You will be held accountable if you cause fire damage to others property or harm/maim others directly (like misfires). That said, I am in full support of those who want to celebrate by launching "heavy equipment" high into the sky using tubes. Just do it right... OK?

2) Set off any ground fireworks that you like... just do it someplace safe... far away from fire danger. I support local communities blocking off their street and celebrating right out in the middle of the road.... as opposed to cowering in the back yard hiding and creating additional risk.

3) If you must set off large "M80 type" ground detonations... PLEASE do it in such away that you assure a 50' clearance for those who do not wish to have their eardrums blown out or eyes peppered.

4) Do not accept that celebration should be repressed/oppressed... and be ready to face the consequences should the police (who swear to near blindly follow orders remember...) catch you. An old county sheriff may be able to read between the lines and look the other way on this important day.... but since 9/11... we have a fresh set of zealots who are armed, backed, and ready to slam you to the ground based on technicalities.

5) If you do not wish to celebrate by setting off fireworks (or enjoying others fireworks) I suggest some disruptive behavior such as:
5.1) Running around naked all night
5.2) Blasting loud music and allowing others to congregate in front of your home
5.3) Mouthing off on the internet
5.4) Challenge authority directly... by walking up to officers and guards... and asking them what they think they are doing and why.
5.5) Politely disassembling roadblocks, fences, and other cages... so as to allow ingress
5.6) Politely disabling (in a non-destructive way) the generators that power the light poles
5.7) Politely distracting the officers while our brothers transport the large black duffel bags to the designated launching areas
5.8) Politely shut the frock up and leave town... or put in ear plugs, get out a ladder, get your hose ready, and protect your property

There is a job for everybody... and pissing and moaning is not on the list.

Just like we designate areas where people can race cars (official and unofficial) we designate areas where "action is to be expected" and law enforcement should engage in the following way:

1) Cops should be focused on public safety first... in the immediate... by singling out dip-shits... like those who throw M80's into clouds of people.

2) Fire trucks, ambulance, and Cops should stage near the unofficially designated area to address any mishaps promptly... like they do at the flat track races (anticipate injuries)

3) Assist home-owners in identifying those who set off gnarly fireworks in any area other than the unofficial designated safe zones (BEACHES)... and usher them toward the safe zone (not toward a cage and confiscation fiasco)

4) Inform the public as to the risks, aid the flow of traffic, and identify outside disruptors.

5) Aid local business owners in the protection of their property should folks get out of hand

...

It goes like that...

Here is my report from last year:

1) I attended a celebration inside the county
2) Santa Cruz Sheriff had a seasoned officer (with more than stripes) on duty
3) The seasoned officer was EXTREMELY TOLERANT... UNTIL... Some frocking idiots... started throwing ground fireworks into crowds

Then... (and I support him in this completely) he had to call in jr officers.
They came in hard... a bald white guy and a female with a stiff upper lip... zero tolerance types...

They put the smack down HARD and shut down the fun
(really all they did was scatter the crowd)

see.... if you stay cool... you can deal with the seasoned sheriff... and make this work...

If you act like a tool... we all get to deal with the zealot types

Are you following?

Do you understand?

There is a way to disrupt in an orderly manner. You need to know the protocol or you need to keep your hands in your pockets.

...

So we are clear:

1) Guys running toward the ocean with large black duffel bags (those are my friends)
2) Cops who stay cool and worry about real problems like major fire, death, and dismemberment (those are my friends)

3) Pissing, moaning, whiny, twerps who wish to squash this fine day... and have us hold hands along the sidewalk with sparklers... (not my friends)
4) Cops, security guards, or others who are empowered... upholding the letter of code... (not my friends)



Gunfire - not in the air (and you cant hear it into the ground...) so keep it put away. Its a day for mortar fire, not lead fire

Drunkenness - Yea, please do. Do not drive a heavy piece of equipment. Do not fist-fight or fight with weapons. Please feel free to ride bicycles, skateboards, or any piece of light-weight equipment... even while hammered.

Drug use - Yea, please do. Try to not make to much of a show of it for the kids. Reefer... fine. If you want to smoke a crack pipe please go do it in your moms basement.

Violence - toward citizens, will not be tolerated in any way, shape, or form. I am talking about physical intimidation, breaking windows, punching, carrying weapons like bats, etc. Displaying of knives and guns (on the hip - tools) is acceptable. Threats toward any other human or animal (while carrying a deadly weapon) will be treated with a stiff upper lip. If you carry... you are not allowed to make threats. (just think about how a cop has to behave while carrying)

Criminal Activity - those who take advantage of the holiday to rob and steal... should see an extra month in the shame cage. You should not be a crook in the first place. There is no excuse - even if your daddy beat you and your mom was a no good addict whore. Do you read me? No excuse fool. Those caught in the active process of stealing (I am talking super obvious here... like leaning over your fence with bolt cutters... taking your bike).... should be subdued physically until officers arrive.

Sex Offences - same deal. Just dont do it... do not take advantage of the fact that folks are stumbling around hammered. Be smart. If you are some kind of sex fiend go to a professional and pay to have role play sex. If you find yourself wishing to victimize others... seek help immediately from someone you trust. You dont want to be that guy... (or gal)... that person gets their nuts squashed. Fo' real.

How you address officers

Ah... this is the critical pivot...

The Officers are the ones enforcing the rules
Here are some guidelines on that:

1) Dont waste time heckling the jr officers (or do, I dont really care)

2) Focus on making your way to sr officers. These are guys and gals who remember freedom... who grew up celebrating... who know that what we are doing now is perverted and wrong.

3) Do not damage or disable any sort of emergency response vehicle in any way, shape, or form... at any time... under any circumstances. This ranks up there with getting your balls smashed. Think about it.

4) If you block in officers - you MUST leave an escape route. Just like when officers box you in... (if they are smart)... the goal is to corral and move... NEVER to corner. Cornering leads to escalation (the bad kind)... so if you wish to clear any given beach of officers - make sure you do so in an orderly and intelligent manner.

YES
Of COURSE you can clear a beach of officers

You understand this right?

Right?

Ah... Some of you do not.


There are apx 3-4 officers for every 1,000 citizens
You can look that up

We CHOOSE to allow the officers the PRIVILEGE of wearing armor, carrying weapons, enforcing rules, and protecting us.

When the officers get CONFUSED and start enforcing BULLSHIT LAWS/RULES... We simply scoot them to the side and pat them on the head.

yea
If you dont think so... you dont know

Yea
Sometimes this results in escalation (the bad kind)... but that is a choice made by leadership

In a situation like this
Where all folks want to do is celebrate our independence by shooting off some mortars at the beach...
It should not be a major problem to facilitate this.

...

Should anyone have a problem with these general guidelines you can post here, call me, email me, or stuff it.

I accept constructive criticism.
I do not accept yellow eyed sheeple... so if you wish to challenge my assertions... please come equipped to debate.

Understand and accept LOGIC
Understand and accept REASON
Understand and accept REALITY

If you come with those 3 skills... we will compromise to an agreement.

If you come yapping like a tard (acceptable word)... you will be treated as such.

Simple
Take back control of the idea we established*

-methods

Around here they shoot off the mortars, cannon, and V2-sized rockets for days to weeks before and after the actual day, but only around the middle of the night to 2-3am, just so they can cause the most disturbance to others (as their goal is to piss off as many people as possible, not to celebrate anything). Judging from some of the damage to things I see on occasion, they don't shoot them into the air, either, they shoot them *at* things, like houses, cars, etc.


The guns, however, they shoot into the air, at least during their "celebrations". I don't hear many 3-round auto bursts anymore, these days, at least, just single shots from handguns, mostly. Sometimes shotguns or large-caliber rifles.


They're probably mostly the same poeple that use their super-earthquake-loud "sound" systems to attack hundreds to thousands of people at a time for blocks and blocks around their vehicles, shaking everything around them so hard that things will fall off walls, sometimes glass in windows will crack, and cause migraines and other sound- and impact-induced illnesses and injuries in various living beings in their attack radius as they either drive roaring around the city (as the vehicles engines are often extremely loud as well, deliberately damaged to cause as much noise and harm as possible), or they park somewhere (sometimes at their own homes, or others, sometimes at various other places around the city) and assault the rest of the living beings around them with their earthquake-level evil.

I wish that was an exaggeration.

Backing arguments available and posted previously here and other places.

This is not code or regulation
These are guidelines - developed over decades - based on the observation of reality (observable and measurable fact)

...

The way to read what I write is to understand the following:

1st order
2nd order

...

The primary fallacy of may liberals (and I tried that suit on at one time...) is to get lost in the 2nd order.
There is a reason for every 1st order

...

1st order is Freedom from opression
Freedom from violence by the state
Freedom from excessive taxation (I pay 50%... how much does Starbucks or Honeywell pay?)
Freedom from violence and theft in general
...

We do not
I repeat... WE DO NOT...

Sacrifice Freedom in the name of 2nd order objectives... UNTIL...
We actually have things sorted out.

At present... WE DO NOT

We are at war across the world
We are 20 Trillion dollars into the credit card
We are corrupt to the core
Our leaders divide and lie to us
We greedily enslave others in other places for a tiny return
We run ponzi schemes with our housing
We allow ourselves to be confused by the false dilemma of ONLY RED AND BLUE
We are addicted (many of us...) to strong opiates
We have not even started to exercise robotic means of sustaining life (instead we use slaves)
... We are not NEARLY as advanced as we would like to think we are ...

Our system is not yet sustainable

For that reason we retain focus on 1st order principles...
With a lesser focus on 2nd order principles... like... how we would LIKE for it to be ONCE we achieve sustainability

We are still in the wild west in MANY ways. Every civilization since the dawn of civilizations has thought THEY were the PEAK... the most amazing thing since sliced bread...

And we have shown
Time and time again
That we are savage beasts who enjoy a little technology (In my Humble Opinion... knowing what could be our reality)

So thats the 1st order 2nd order groundwork
This helps to understand guidance and not code

We do not spell out exactly what should be done or how... that just creates loopholes
We strive to exercise and enforce "Universally Acceptable Behavior"

The definition of "Universally Acceptable Behavior" is (and will remain) up for debate.

Participate in that debate*

Keep it 1st principles... and avoid using 2nd order minutia...
(you either understand that or dont... depending on how you grew up)

...

Those of us who grew up in "the old way" understand the reason for the way things are*

Violence
The Draft
War
Corruption
Evil in general...

These things are real and I have observed them over decades. If you sit inside long enough staring at the TV on anti-depressants... it is possible... that your perceived reality is greatly skewed such that you can not accurately identify TRUE RISK.

Avoidance of TRUE RISK is the task of leaders.
I lead when I HAVE TO... to set out a rough cut... to allow a starting point...

Like... Starting with a Honda when you want to build a race car. Yea... in the end there may be nothing of the original platform left... but you sure will get started MUCH QUICKER than attempting to mine ore, cast steel beams, build a welder from scratch, weld beams...

You following my point?

Toss your viewpoint out there.
Give someone else something to rally toward or against
Allow people to run with ideas and run from ideas

-methods

Thanks for contributing.
I commented inline in red.

amberwolf said:

Around here they shoot off the mortars, cannon, and V2-sized rockets for days to weeks before and after the actual day, but only around the middle of the night to 2-3am, just so they can cause the most disturbance to others more likely to avoid capture (as their goal is to piss off as many people as possible, not to celebrate anything). biased opinion Judging from some of the damage to things I see on occasion, they don't shoot them into the air, either, they shoot them *at* things, like houses, cars, etc. usually mistakes but I have seen it happen. Those are called vandals... not to be confused with citizens.


The guns, however, they shoot into the air, at least during their "celebrations". I don't hear many 3-round auto bursts anymore, these days, at least, just single shots from handguns, mostly. Sometimes shotguns or large-caliber rifles. nobody likes that...
but please brother... take a moment to remember exactly what it is we are celebrating here.

...

Have you had to go to war yet amberwolf?
Have you had to kill or threaten to kill?
Have you had to train with weapons?
Please... if you have not... turn your volume knob down just 1 notch for me... As I have.


They're probably mostly the same poeple that use their super-earthquake-loud "sound" systems to attack hundreds to thousands of people at a time for blocks and blocks around their vehicles, shaking everything around them so hard that things will fall off walls, sometimes glass in windows will crack, and cause migraines and other sound- and impact-induced illnesses and injuries in various living beings in their attack radius as they either drive roaring around the city (as the vehicles engines are often extremely loud as well, deliberately damaged to cause as much noise and harm as possible), or they park somewhere (sometimes at their own homes, or others, sometimes at various other places around the city) and assault the rest of the living beings around them with their earthquake-level evil. Feel free to walk right up to these noise makers and give them what-for. That is your right and you can escalate to the police to enforce code ordnance if you feel it is necessary.

I wish that was an exaggeration. You are in AZ right? I do not doubt you at all. -methods

Click to expand...

Pheonix sounds like the wild wild west.
God knows what Texas does, perhaps full automatic fire into the air, like its the middle east or something.

California sounds like totalitarian rule.

markz said:

Pheonix sounds like the wild wild west.
God knows what Texas does, perhaps full automatic fire into the air, like its the middle east or something.

California sounds like totalitarian rule.

Click to expand...

Small RPG's
Dynamite and hand grenades
... stuff like that I imagine...

We here in fornia' have got so head of ourselves that we dun fergot what we was fight'n for.

I know what it is... but wont dare to say it
Effectively is a lack of negative experiences that leads some folks to thinking that we can just fill the swimming pool full of marshmallows and all will be good.

I am of the belief that the job is not yet done.

-methods

http://www.espn.com/moresports/story/_/id/23998448/joey-chestnut-eats-record-74-hot-dogs-nathan-famous-hot-dog-eating-contest

So when I was a kid there'd be a Vandenberg missle test in the news. We might actually see something here. Sometimes dad would come home and say "We dropped it right in the basket." Meaning it was one of his and it landed right where he wanted it to.

Funny how back then he could fly it thousands of miles to where he wanted it to go and people here can't keep from burning things a few yards away.

For years now there's been no sleep for two nights, the artillery fire was so heavy. Last night wasn't bad. We'll see how tonight goes.

Oh, last night I was getting back around sundown and there were two big wrecks less than a mile from my house. Maybe I want to get home before dark, just so my car is safe from the drunks. I could walk and get myself out of the way might better. But the idiots on bikes around here who ride like they're always drunk just might get what they have coming to them.

Last year one of my relatives lost her dog. It was in the house in a panic even right with her, then it suddenly dropped dead. The heavy shelling was in her neighborhood, too. They're not safe even inside.

methods said:

usually mistakes but I have seen it happen. Those are called vandals... not to be confused with citizens.

Click to expand...

That's the problem--these people *are* vandals. (thanks for reminding me of the term)

The point of vandalism is destruction, damage, etc., and that's exactly what these people are doing. Not just the ones shooting off stuff into other things, but the ones with the earthquake level "sound systems", etc.

They know exactly what they are doing, they've been told, not just by all the neighborhood, but also by law enforcement, and they not only don't care, but they actually turn it up even louder; they're proud that they are disturbing all these people, damaging things around them. If LE is still present, they'll turn it off, but as soon as they're gone, back up it goes, louder than before, and then it can be an hour, two, several, or never, for LE to come back.

Some of the vandals with the earthquake-level systems have even threatened some of the neighborhood people at gunpoint to "go frock off and die", if I remember the phrase right, when asked to turn it down. Makes it a little difficult to go tell them in person without risking injury or death, leaving little option but to involve LE, and suffer the shaking walls and ground until they arrive (if they ever do--less than 50/50 on any kind of response, and less than 50/50 on the responses that do happen actually accomplishing anything.

nobody likes that...
but please brother... take a moment to remember exactly what it is we are celebrating here.

...

Have you had to go to war yet amberwolf?
Have you had to kill or threaten to kill?
Have you had to train with weapons?
Please... if you have not... turn your volume knob down just 1 notch for me... As I have.

Click to expand...

Really? Really?

This has absofuckinglutely NOTHING to do with any of that. I respect those that defend our freedom, but these people are not them, and deserve zero respect for what they do. Even if some of them *have* served, they still have NO right to endanger others with their uncaring stupidity.

Right to bear arms doesn't have anything to do with any "right" to use them indiscriminately on random citizens of your own city for no better reason than just enjoying firing into the air or at random targets, or "celebrating" that right to bear arms itself.

Stupid stuff like that is exactly why that very right to bear arms is threatened more and more as time goes on.

Firing guns into the air, with live ammunition, means the bullets come back down somewhere. In the city, that means they come back down in the city, where people and other living beings are, and some of those bullets are possibly going to hit some of them.

"Shannon's law" here was written to try to prevent more deaths like Shannon's, which happened when such a "celebration bullet" came down on her and killed her, ending her young life for no reason other than someone's unthinking "celebration". We wouldn't "need" such laws if people put some thought into the things they do, and the consequences they have on others. No idea how effective such laws are...but they wouldn't exist at all if poeple didn't do stupid stuff like that.

I don't really give a flying frock if someone wants to shoot off blanks in the city for whatever reason at whatever time (it's annoying, but ignorable by me, if not by all those with PTSD triggered by such things, or dogs like Yogi, etc), but if they're shooting off live ammo, they need to be doing it where there's no one around that could be killed or injured by them, unless they are *trying* to kill or injure people.

In that case, they need to go point the weapon *at* those specific people to do it, to avoid noncombatant fatalities and injuries. Though I would personally prefer they simply put their own head between the exit end of the barrel and their target.

If their goal is to celebrate, they should do it in a way that isn't going to kill random people who have no idea there's something up there coming down to end their lives and destroy those of the people that care about them.

If their goal is to kill, they should just go do that and get it over with.

Dauntless said:

http://www.espn.com/moresports/story/_/id/23998448/joey-chestnut-eats-record-74-hot-dogs-nathan-famous-hot-dog-eating-contest

Click to expand...

Nice....



That was a truely american contribution....

-methods

amberwolf said:

...

Click to expand...

Fair enough
I do not wish to argue on behalf of those who are irresponsible...

I do with to argue on behalf of those who wish to celebrate the 4th - at an amplitude far greater than is normally acceptable

Along those lines - This years report:

1) No road blocks (yea!)
2) Fewer fences (yea!)
3) Absolutely DEAD (not yea)
4) Fireworks happening in residential areas (not yea)

I found the senior Sheriffs...

6 of them hanging out at the beach where it used to get INSANE
They provided the following excuses

A) This is a marine sanctuary... we do not wish to upset the animals
B) You dont know how many stabbings and blown off fingers we have had to deal with
C) This is now more family oriented

Yea - all passable arguements
(Where... "SHUT UP CITIZEN!" would not be a passable arguement... so credit where credit is due. Only one looked annoyed with my innocent inquiry)

Trouble is... (and this speaks to my above argument Amberwolf...)

1) This country is wholesale eradicating nature - both home and abroad - regularly and on a tight schedule
2) We blow off peoples fingers in the middle east daily... lets remember that...
3) Our families can only enjoy this festival because we have DOMINATED the world

Super lame to dominate the world... (even if you think 'merica has not... at a minimum... we hold a global threat of death to all)

So
I am of the opinion that we should "wild west" days like the 4th

Blow out peoples eardrums (like we blow out the ear drums of kids... all over the world... with our BOOM BOOM)

REMIND these soft little coddled citizens of the price paid to enable our lifestyle.
It is
Totally unsustainable

...

SO
Until such time
As I am convinced that every man, woman, and child... understands the REALITY of what our tax dollars do...

I will maintain my position.

Shit is real out there kids...
Put on your Beatz head phones and lap up the youtube... but PLEASE

PLEASE
Do not forget
At what cost it comes

...

War needs to end
It starts with dismantlement of the Nuclear Weapons Complex.

[youtube]8y06NSBBRtY[/youtube]
TIME = 48 SECONDS
-methods

I worked there

For 10 years....

It is very....
V E R Y....
REAL

Beware

-methods

So real, that my Dad. . . .

Well, he got a little job at a moving company as he was starting college, then he went in the Army Air Force, then he came home and worked for the Military Industrial Complex the rest of his life. Never told us very much about what he did, so he never had to kill any of us. But he had the highest civilian clearance there was at the time. So they send the investigators to check up on him from time to time and guess what? The report came back that the guy who tailed him was very, very bored. . . .

methods said:

I do with to argue on behalf of those who wish to celebrate the 4th - at an amplitude far greater than is normally acceptable

Click to expand...

If the music itself was loud, the neighborhood in general wouldn't care. We could just close our doors and windows, and maybe turn on a box fan or something, and ignore it. That's what we do with all the other neighbors that have parties, etc. That's normal.

But when the only thing they turn up is the bass, especially subsonics, whcih literally shakes the ground for blocks, rattles windows, walls, vibrates bodies and heads until illness occurs (can make you puke, sometimes make your head hurt so bad you cannot stand up and walk, when they get loud enough or if you're close enough, like if you only live 5 or 6 houses away)....

That's not celebrating, it's assault.

And they do it every single day, at any time they feel like it, night, day, etc.

And since it's in their vehicles, they do it not just in one place, but travel around assaulting everyone around them wherever they go.


I don't disagree with you about what our government has chosen to do to the rest of the world (and what it is doing to it's own citizens and others within our borders)...but that doesnt' have anything to do with what assholes like the ones in my neighborhood (and everywhere else I've ever been) do with their earthquake-level "sound" systems (that don't make sound as such, but sonic assaults on everything for blocks around).

I wonder how many people hit the judicial system starting from Canada Day on July 1 until the end of the 10 days of Stampede July 15.

markz said:

I wonder how many people hit the judicial system starting from Canada Day on July 1 until the end of the 10 days of Stampede July 15.

Click to expand...

No idea - perhaps you could elaborate.

...

As for Amberwolfs description of pounding bass... man... nobody has a system like that around here anymore. Rarely do I hear or feel the rumble.

Back in the 90's I remember guys at the high school rolling out early
One in particular had a CRX with 15's and some real power
I remember the paper on my desk hovering and moving a bit

...

We all have the things that make us go irate.
I happen to like bass... but... I dont have to listen to it - so maybe if I did... I would feel different.

I have a couple 10W-1's and a 20 year old fosgate
My system bumps - but nothing like past systems

Where is DocTorBass?
Never looked into what he was building...
anyhow - wife just pulled up.

Gotta hide the lube and the towel - and get back to work on repairing this supply.

-methods

methods said:

As for Amberwolfs description of pounding bass... man... nobody has a system like that around here anymore. Rarely do I hear or feel the rumble.

Back in the 90's I remember guys at the high school rolling out early
One in particular had a CRX with 15's and some real power

-methods

Click to expand...

People like that don't NEVER take no guidance, though. No chance to address them here.

Dont never take dem guidances?

course not

Click to expand...

Here we work on the 10X principle...

I have learned the following in my trek thru the underworld:

1) Soap boxing for the masses is a hazardous waste of time, money, and ... soul.
2) Carefully filtering a target audience with an IQ (or other quality filter) is more effective.
3) This filter should find people who are leaders
...

Convincing 10 leaders (smart people... who do not have trouble with letting go of old ideas... in favor of new ideas...) is the only way to get "it" done.

Then trust - that those 10 - will each convince 10
(other leaders)

Now we have a diluted (but distributed) message in the hands of 100 leaders
Each of them can convince 10 folks - maybe 100 folks - now we are at a thousand or ten thousand

That
Is do'able

Know cuz I have done it

...

Its like... Regan
"Trickle down logic"
"Trickle down reality"
"Trickle down knowledge"

...

Church uses this sort of thing
Seems to work for them

Obviously having a single source of truth is troublesome and troubling (we seek no massiah or grand leader... that shit sucks)
We seek quorums, groups, collections - loosely tied - global - isolated from each other ideally

...

Like
What we do around here

"Trickle Down Ideas"

...

Serious brother
Every time I try to drop core knowledge on the unprepared they either shut down, stare at me like I am nuts, or otherwise are incapable of digesting the knowledge (likely because they dont have the groundwork in place to make the leaps)

Oh well
Dont know
Dont care

-methods

methods said:

Serious brother
Every time I try to drop core knowledge on the unprepared they either shut down, stare at me like I am nuts, or otherwise are incapable of digesting the knowledge (likely because they dont have the groundwork in place to make the leaps)

-methods

Click to expand...

Or maybe you just aren't getting the point across. You're saying 'It's not me, it's EVERYONE ELSE.' You're not willing to consider that maybe it IS you. What's left out when the old man talks in the video is he doesn't say anything about the guy losing his voice because he cares. If he didn't care he wouldn't be scared, etc. The problem with all this you're letting people down talk is that is what caused the problem in the first place.

So Jim Nabors was a none too successful stand up comic who caught the fancy of an actor at that time best known for a TV show, a Broadway show, then a movie playing the same character. When they decided to come with a new version of that actors' character for a TV show, Andy Griffith said he wanted the comic, Jim Nabors, to have a recurring character on 'The Andy Griffith Show.'

This led to a spinoff with Nabors playing a closer to the original version of Griffith's 'No Time for Sergeants' character, which underwent an evolution into a goofier and goofier voice in the first two years of the show. Nabors' embarrassment at the way he sounded led to him learning to sing opera for real, where they said he turned out to be a natural. He had done some comic opera as a stand up, but, well, I'm not sure what to say. He wound up singing 'Back Home in Indiana' at the beginning of the Indianapolis 500 for 42 years. I guess he got his point across.

[youtube]yJlgio-UOng[/youtube]

Not tracking your argument - but thanks for the contribution.

As far as considering my part in any interaction - thats the first thing I consider. Years of self-doubt training. I'm a black belt in introflection.

I am referencing attempts to communicate, using a vocabulary, which is not understood.

I only attempt to get a point across up to a limit these days. I have already lost too many hours on the hamster wheel.

1st order
2nd order
Integration
Nyquist Limit...

How can I describe a high level concept, using an analogy that references the fallacy of under-sampling, if a person does not trust (or is not familiar with) calculus and proofs?

Meh - off to surf

-methods