wheel motors

X2flier

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Joined
Jun 25, 2018
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ES,

I have been looking at the Kepler Friction Drive designs here. One little outrunner motor drives a bike at respectable speeds. There are no gears, and no wasted power. A light-bulb got illuminated, in my head.

It's probably not an original idea, but given the size of hub motors now, I'd like to see outrunner motors with an outside rim that can mount a tire on it, such as a bike tire, motorcycle tire, or car tire. The current hub motors today are just that, but if built larger, and as outrunners, they would be lightweight, efficient, and powerful in torque. These motors could use disk brakes like the regular hub motors do now, and can even be designed "heavy-duty" enough for a motorcycle or car. Take any bike, motorcycle, or car and bolt in the appropriate-sized outrunner motor where a drive wheel might be. For a car, you could have two of these wheel motors to make a conventional front-wheel drive city car (with no CV joints or differential), or four such motors to make an all-wheel drive snow car. Powering every wheel that touches the ground gives real advantages in handling. Electric braking or regenerative braking (not the same thing) would also be possible.

This trick would make retro-fitting any bike or car today into an easy task, and quite affordable, as opposed to building complete vehicles made for our existing electric motors.

I have seen various electric powered wheels that make me think this concept is absolutely practical, and maybe the end of conventional ICE powered cars. A "hybrid" then would have a straight drive between any fueled engine, even a rotary or turbine, to a generator that charges the batteries. No gearing or other power-losing devices would be needed. The fueled engine would only be used intermittently on longer trips, if needed, between the usual re-charges when stopped. Rotary engines and turbines can be very efficient of fuel, when they only need to operate at one speed, flat out.
 
There's a number of places that make car-sized (and bigger, and smaller) hubmotors already. QSmotors (see their thread in the sale section) is one such.

There've been designs that simply bolt on in place of existing wheel mounts, or that have a mounting system that secures them around a spindle, etc., to transfer torque to the car and move it forward.

Unfortunately they aren't going to end ICE cars/etc anytime soon; batteries are still expensive and large, and not as profitable for the petroleum companies.

Would be nice, though.


As far as bike wheels that directly mount the rim on th motor, there are some, like the smaller diameter scooter motors, and some of the Goldenmotor brand, etc.
 
The theory is solid but the implementation is often difficult. For a bicycle the practical restriction is making a motor large & skinny enough while retaining sufficient lateral stiffness and not ending up heavier than a regular hubmotor + spoked wheel assembly (spoked wheels are very well optimised for strength over weight). For cars and motorcycles the unsprung mass can be a restricting factor.
 
amberwolf said:
There's a number of places that make car-sized (and bigger, and smaller) hubmotors already. QSmotors (see their thread in the sale section) is one such. There've been designs that simply bolt on in place of existing wheel mounts, or that have a mounting system that secures them around a spindle, etc., to transfer torque to the car and move it forward.
Unfortunately they aren't going to end ICE cars/etc anytime soon; batteries are still expensive and large, and not as profitable for the petroleum companies. Would be nice, though.
As far as bike wheels that directly mount the rim on th motor, there are some, like the smaller diameter scooter motors, and some of the Goldenmotor brand, etc.
Amberwolf,

Your point about battery power is well taken. I would expect this movement (for cars) to start as hybrids, with some type of engine that only turns a generator to produce charging power. Mother Earth News has sold plans (for decades) for a DIY hybrid, designed to use only WW-II scrapyard technology. It gets better than 75 MPG with lead-acid batteries.

https://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportation/electric-car-conversion-zmaz79jazraw

High power (expensive) batteries are not vital, when the vehicle efficiency is high enough. Lead-acid batteries (or anything better) can probably pull the load. Since most trips are fairly short, really, the fuel engine may never come on. The house-power fuel cell crew now has some cheaper and eco-friendly battery chemistries on tap that out-perform lead-acid batteries, which may be all we need.

I want to track down every possible wheel motor made today, of course, so thanks for those leads.
 
Every possible one made is at least a few tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of different kinds and models and brands (though there may be many clones of some kinds), so it may take a little time. ;)
 
amberwolf said:
Every possible one made is at least a few tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of different kinds and models and brands (though there may be many clones of some kinds), so it may take a little time. ;)
Amberwolf,

Okay, I promise to stop looking, when I find the right one. :mrgreen:
 
X2,...
Save yourself some time (a lot?) by going over to the DIY Electric car site https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/
Try a search for "wheel hub motors" and read up on the state of play.
...But dont expect to get too excited !
 
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