Any Lawyers Here?

Talk about anything and everything here within reason.
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marty   10 MW

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Any Lawyers Here?

Post by marty » Jul 10 2018 4:00pm

Scenario:

2 guys decide to fight. They go outside and fight. One guy suffers a broken finger. Other guy suffers a broken toe. After the fight both guys are still friends but pretty unset about the damages to their hand and foot. After the hospital, x-rays, and doctors, they are a bit mad at each other. Damages to the one guys finger and other guys toe are pretty serious. Foot injury guy will probably never be a Olimpia track star. And he might be limping for the rest of his life? Guy with broken finger might have to spend the rest of his life picking his nose with his other nine fingers? Both guys decide that they should sign a paper stating that they both will not call the police and will not press charges against the other. Paper also says that they will not sue each other for damages till the end of time.

What would a paper like this be called? Where to find a paper like this? I am real good at copy and paste.
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PRW   10 kW

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by PRW » Jul 10 2018 5:42pm

I'm not a lawyer, but research:
release of liability/ hold harmless/ mutual indemnification

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by dustNbone » Jul 11 2018 12:32am

Sounds like they're both pretty shitty at fighting and should avoid doing it in the future.

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marty   10 MW

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by marty » Jul 11 2018 11:31am

Hows this?

MUTUAL INDEMNITY AGREEMENT

Agreement between [party 1] and [party2]

Each Party shall hold harmless, indemnify, and promise not to sue. Waive, release, and discharge from any and all liability. Vow not to contact any law enforcement agency, or press charges against the other party and its directors, officers, agents and employees against any and all loss, liability, damage, or expense, including any direct, indirect or consequential loss, liability, damage, or expense, including but not limited to arising from [what happened], [when it happened] and into perpetuity, at [place that it happened].

I certify that I have read this document and I fully understand its content. I am aware that this is a Mutual Indemnity Agreement and a contract and I sign it of my own free will.

[party 1]
__________________ Date __________________

[party 2]
__________________ Date __________________
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eee291   10 kW

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by eee291 » Jul 11 2018 11:38am

dustNbone wrote:
Jul 11 2018 12:32am
Sounds like they're both pretty shitty at fighting and should avoid doing it in the future.
:lol:

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by Dauntless » Jul 11 2018 12:00pm

dustNbone wrote:
Jul 11 2018 12:32am
Sounds like they're both pretty shitty at fighting and should avoid doing it in the future.
That's what the attorneys are for, to do all the fighting and making fools of themselves.
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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by PRW » Jul 11 2018 12:26pm

marty wrote:
Jul 11 2018 11:31am
Hows this?

MUTUAL INDEMNITY AGREEMENT

Agreement between [party 1] and [party2]

Each Party shall hold harmless, indemnify, and promise not to sue. Waive, release, and discharge from any and all liability. Vow not to contact any law enforcement agency, or press charges against the other party and its directors, officers, agents and employees against any and all loss, liability, damage, or expense, including any direct, indirect or consequential loss, liability, damage, or expense, including but not limited to arising from [what happened], [when it happened] and into perpetuity, at [place that it happened].

I certify that I have read this document and I fully understand its content. I am aware that this is a Mutual Indemnity Agreement and a contract and I sign it of my own free will.

[party 1]
__________________ Date __________________

[party 2]
__________________ Date __________________
looks good to me, except for the "and its directors, officers, agents and employees", which should be deleted - unless there's a whole company a Party fought...
what about adding in - keeping all matters confidential between the Parties (i.e. not only law enforcement agencies)

Also: is it only this fight that they are waiving liability for, or future fights as well? :)

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by dustNbone » Jul 11 2018 12:34pm

Another plus for universal health care. Means two guys can beat the drunken crap out of one another with no hard feelings about repair costs.

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by X2flier » Jul 11 2018 12:52pm

Now I am not a lawyer, either, but . . .
What works as a waiver of liability varies by a lot, from state to state.
Make any mistake there, and all you will have is a sheet of paper.
In some states, by law, a person simply can not sign away their right to sue.
No amount of paper prevents the rest of the family from suing, as in a case of lost income (by the family of the injured party or by those who lose income to care for the injured), medical expenses, home care, et c.
In the USA, it typically costs a defendant US$20k~$30k to win against the complainant.

Good luck.
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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by Punx0r » Jul 12 2018 2:59am

I'd be surprised if any jurisdiction anywhere in the Western world would permit someone to sign away their freedom to report a criminal offence to the police. I just can't see that being remotely enforceable. E.g. imagine a husband producing a piece of paper signed by his wife and trying to claim immunity against a physical assault.

Also, even if both parties refuse to press charges, if a fight occurs in a public place then both parties can still be prosecuted as a public order offence.

An indemnity waiver to prevent civil proceedings may or may not be enforceable. Or maybe each party could pay the other a nominal dollar compensation in full and final settlement with no implied liability or admission of guilt to prevent a later suit.

Or maybe the guys should just grow up and shake hands on it. That ought to have the added benefit of preventing a reoccurrence of what sounds like a ridiculous situation. This is assuming the word of either guy is worth anything.

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marty   10 MW

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by marty » Jul 12 2018 6:16am

PRW wrote:
Jul 11 2018 12:26pm
marty wrote:
Jul 11 2018 11:31am
Hows this?

MUTUAL INDEMNITY AGREEMENT

Agreement between [party 1] and [party2]

Each Party shall hold harmless, indemnify, and promise not to sue. Waive, release, and discharge from any and all liability. Vow not to contact any law enforcement agency, or press charges against the other party and its directors, officers, agents and employees against any and all loss, liability, damage, or expense, including any direct, indirect or consequential loss, liability, damage, or expense, including but not limited to arising from [what happened], [when it happened] and into perpetuity, at [place that it happened].

I certify that I have read this document and I fully understand its content. I am aware that this is a Mutual Indemnity Agreement and a contract and I sign it of my own free will.

[party 1]
__________________ Date __________________

[party 2]
__________________ Date __________________
looks good to me, except for the "and its directors, officers, agents and employees", which should be deleted - unless there's a whole company a Party fought...
what about adding in - keeping all matters confidential between the Parties (i.e. not only law enforcement agencies)

Also: is it only this fight that they are waiving liability for, or future fights as well? :)
Future fights? Na that won't happen :)
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marty   10 MW

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by marty » Jul 12 2018 6:27am

Punx0r wrote:
Jul 12 2018 2:59am
I'd be surprised if any jurisdiction anywhere in the Western world would permit someone to sign away their freedom to report a criminal offence to the police. I just can't see that being remotely enforceable. E.g. imagine a husband producing a piece of paper signed by his wife and trying to claim immunity against a physical assault.

Also, even if both parties refuse to press charges, if a fight occurs in a public place then both parties can still be prosecuted as a public order offence.

An indemnity waiver to prevent civil proceedings may or may not be enforceable. Or maybe each party could pay the other a nominal dollar compensation in full and final settlement with no implied liability or admission of guilt to prevent a later suit.

Or maybe the guys should just grow up and shake hands on it. That ought to have the added benefit of preventing a reoccurrence of what sounds like a ridiculous situation. This is assuming the word of either guy is worth anything.
If 2 guys mutually agree to go to the back yard and have a fight? Don't think there is anything criminal here? Think sport. Think boxing. Think wrestling.

Re: "shake hands" That is what I would like to see happen.
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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by Punx0r » Jul 12 2018 7:31am

I did say public place ;)

You're right - there are plenty of mutually consenting contact sports that are of rightfully legal. I don't know where the line is there but there is one somewhere as duelling is definitely illegal no matter how consenting the parties. I suspect intent will come into somewhere i.e. is it for primarily for sport or to cause deliberate harm.

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by billvon » Jul 12 2018 10:54am

X2flier wrote:
Jul 11 2018 12:52pm
Now I am not a lawyer, either, but . . .
What works as a waiver of liability varies by a lot, from state to state.
Make any mistake there, and all you will have is a sheet of paper.
That's a bit of a misconception. You don't need a secret formula to write up and sign an agreement. The standard is "did both people understand it and agree to it?" If yes, then it's valid. Which means if you can read the agreement to a jury and have it be clear to them, it's probably valid.
--bill von

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by John in CR » Jul 15 2018 3:16pm

Call a lawyer to come over. Then both shoot the lawyer in the head. They both feel better and help make the world a better place.

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by Chalo » Jul 15 2018 4:39pm

John in CR wrote:
Jul 15 2018 3:16pm
Call a lawyer to come over. Then both shoot the lawyer in the head. They both feel better and help make the world a better place.
You've really absorbed the Latin American model, I guess. Might as well include a corta corbata* while you're at it, for flair.

* "Colombian necktie"
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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by John in CR » Jul 15 2018 8:11pm

My opinion about the world having way too many lawyers has remained unchanged for decades, long before coming down here, and in those decades there's not been one iota of evidence to the contrary. If it is now not politically correct to jokingly speak of fun ways to correct the overabundance, too F'ing bad!

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by brumbrum » Jul 16 2018 7:23am

Just move to a civilised country where people dont sue each other and start a fight there, then shake hands at the end on go on your way.
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alan   100 W

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by alan » Jul 16 2018 8:42am

You guys can piss and moan about lawyers all you want, and there are plenty of lawyers that actually deserve such scorn. But, remember that it is only about 97% of all the lawyers out there who give all the other lawyers a bad name.

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by eee291 » Jul 16 2018 10:36am

Careful guys Alan is a lawyer :D

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by The fingers » Jul 16 2018 6:56pm

I once asked my lawyer if it is possible to be a lawyer and not have to lie.
His reply:
"I'd like to answer that question, but I would have to lie to you". :pancake:
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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by markz » Jul 18 2018 7:10pm

Yeeeaaah lawyers suckazz until they pull you a real good solid and hand you a great deal or get you off.

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by Chalo » Jul 18 2018 8:42pm

markz wrote:
Jul 18 2018 7:10pm
Yeeeaaah lawyers suckazz until they pull you a real good solid and hand you a great deal or get you off.
If you look at them as a group, you might find that they only help you with problems manufactured by other lawyers. If bike mechanics worked the same way, some guy across town would pay a mechanic $400/hour to break somebody else's bike, and then that other person would come to me and pay $400/hour for me to fix it and break the first guy's bike.
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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by Alan B » Jul 18 2018 9:05pm

Only half of lawyers are below average.

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Re: Any Lawyers Here?

Post by Rix » Jul 18 2018 9:05pm

dustNbone wrote:
Jul 11 2018 12:32am
Sounds like they're both pretty shitty at fighting and should avoid doing it in the future.
Laughing my a$$ off!!! :lol: :lol:

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