Accelerator with more twist??

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Hugh-Jassman   1 kW

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Accelerator with more twist??

Post by Hugh-Jassman » Aug 10 2018 2:06pm

Does anyone know of an accelerator that has more than 1 inch of motion?
I made the mistake of buying one that has only one inch of twist for the full power of the battery, and that is way too much. The one I got had a misleading description: “Full twist throttle” does not mean a “full diameter twist”. And Luna-cycle's people just ignored me when I told them about it. [See description at link https://lunacycle.com/right-full-twist- ... e-display/]

I will have to program the controller to accelerate very slowly and then only up to 1500w from the batteries.

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by markz » Aug 10 2018 7:43pm

I have no clue about them full twist or half twist throttles, the only ones I have ever purchased were thumb throttles so you may want to try them out next.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by Alan B » Aug 10 2018 9:39pm

"Full Twist" usually refers to the width of the moving portion of the throttle (motorcycle style), where "half twist" has a fixed portion toward the outside about equal in width to the rotating part. The range of rotation is generally limited by the ergonomics of what the wrist can readily accomodate, so extending this will create new issues.

If the throttle is too sensitive that is a different problem, extending the rotation could help but the real solution lies in changing the controlled parameter. One simple technique often employed is to use a 3 speed switch (supported by many controllers), and have 3 ranges of speed and power, but the best is to change the control to a "torque control" rather than the standard "PWM control" throttles. Often the Cycle Analyst is used to make a "battery current" or "power" control throttle that is also much better. Note that a Zero electric motorcycle, which has far more power and speed than an ebike, uses a torque throttle and you can easily control it at low speed as well as 80 mph plus.

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Matador   10 kW

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by Matador » Aug 10 2018 10:02pm

What would also be amazing is a trottle with a large span of rotation for throttle gradient and with a high resolution with hundreds to thousands of increments in resistance values. Does that even exist in eBikes ??

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by amberwolf » Aug 10 2018 11:00pm

Since the resistive throttles are actual potentiometers, they have continuous resistive value change from zero to max. No need for steps of any size or increment; they're better than that.


Similarly, the hall based throttles use linear output sensors, so they also have continuous change from zero to max, though they use voltage output rather than resistance. Again, no need for steps or increments; they're already a smooth continuous output.


If you're not getting that result, then your controller may not have a smooth continuous *response* to a throttle input; it may require a different controller to fix that if yours has no programming ability to fix it.



As for large span of rotation, as was pointed out above in the thread, there's a limit to how far you can rotate a throttle without discomfort or injury to your wrist, unless you move your whole arm to compensate for that, which may make riding and steering awkward. :/


Also as pointed out previously, If your controller has the option to use a power- or torque- or current-driving throttle, rather than a speed-driving throttle, you don't really need a wide rotation range. Cycle Analyst 3.x can do this for you if your controller can't.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by Alan B » Aug 11 2018 2:05am

The ADC inside the controller is generally 8, 10 or 12 bits. This determines the max resolution that the throttle can produce, but it will be limited in various ways below this value. For one thing the voltage range is about half the total, so that immediately throws away one bit. That still leaves 128, 512 or 2048 "levels" for the software to work with. Of course the software may not take advantage of all these values, and your wrist precision may not be able to generate each value either.

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by TommyCat » Aug 11 2018 7:54am

I do not know of any with more rotational twist. Just to compare I have two throttles. A full length twist (also from Luna), and a generic thumb throttle. They both have a rotation of just under 68 degrees. I suspect it might have to do with the supplied magnets manufactures have available, having to keep the movement about the same... A 2 magnet throttle may have more leeway.
As for a comparison, my motorcycle throttle moves 90 degrees. But only about 75 degrees actually produces motor change. :wink:
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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by Alan B » Aug 11 2018 8:16am

There are two common resistive throttles, Magura and Domino. The higher quality Domino has less rotation than the Magura. The Magura has about 75 degrees while the Domino has only 60 degrees of rotation. The smaller angle of rotation is said to be better ergonomically. I use both, and with a torque control throttle setup the Domino has plenty of control. With the larger rotation angle Magura you end up "crawling" up to get the right wrist angle.

The resistive throttles are fairly linear. The magnetic throttles, especially single magnet types, are often "nonlinear" due to the way they work. Two magnets can be used in the design to make them more linear, but most are made to be cheap rather than good.

If you haven't used a torque controlling throttle, arrange a test drive of a Zero electric motorcycle. Smooth control from walking speed to beyond freeway velocity.

Reference: https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/03/30/ ... vs-magura/

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by teklektik » Aug 11 2018 11:40am

It's interesting that the Magura and motorcycle throttles mentioned above have the same throw - I'm pretty sure the guys at Magura figured that out...

At the end of the day it's a matter of personal preference, handlebar position, posture, and use.

I do casual riding in a more upright posture with wide bars which gives me lots of wrist motion. Unlike competitive riders, I don't need to muscle the bike around by the grips so the grips are not under any material stress - plastic is fine. I use Maguras on both bikes because of the linear response and long throw. Good construction - I've never had a water or mechanical failure in 15000 miles - recommended.

If you aren't racing, doing rugged trail riding, or trials riding where the Magura would be poor structural choice, you might give it a try - the extra rotation is certainly there.

That said, switching to a Current Throttle solution will give you much bigger control improvement and a two-or-three-position switch to limit speed or torque can be very handy. These are not competing solutions - each brings something to the table. I have all three on my bikes -- CA3 (Current Throttle), Magura, and 3-position switch and use whatever works best for the situation -- CA + Magura for smooth linear control with throttle ramping, three-position switch for precise control on bikepaths or when walking the bike over obstacles where an unplanned twist could wheelie the dismounted bike. It's a toolbox - the more tools the merrier...
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Hugh-Jassman   1 kW

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Re: Accelerator with more twist??

Post by Hugh-Jassman » Aug 11 2018 2:15pm

What do they mean by “Torque controlling”....is it designed for slow speed hill climbing? Where can I get one...“Magura torque controller thumb accelerator”?

Does any one know if the Cyclone3000 controller has the ability to be reprogrammed to Current Throttle solution? “Smooth linear control with throttle ramping” sounds good to me.

I have not even bought the device to program the controller yet, so I do not know what is possible.

I am a slow steep hill commuter, I don't want speed, and none of it will off road joy riding. So I may just try the thumb accelerator and hope it works out.


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