List of small hatchback cars

[Chalo]

With a 15 second 0-100km, you're dead meat while trying to merge onto highway traffic that travels at 105km+.
Most of our highway onramps where i live have a ~3% grade. Add the weight of a passenger and you are really hosed.
Not looking to light up any tires.. just survive American roads.

Some of us here drove wheezing old VW microbuses for regular transportation and for long distance travel, well into the 70mph posted, 80+mph actual speed time period. We survived.

Big trucks can't zip right up to highway speed, but they live out their days on the highway. Just because you don't like the feeling of being overtaken as you merge doesn't make it an issue of practical safety or feasibility. You look for a space and you take it.

I'm very much looking forward to automated cars, because they get simple concepts that seem to elude humans.

[neptronix]

Yeah that all sounds nice but my area has nearly no law enforcement and people crash and do stupid things constantly because they're on their cell phones while driving and don't pay attention. We also have a huge opioid problem on top. You have to be extremely defensive out here.
And most cars here weigh 2-3 times more than a compact car.

Don't feel so safe in a subcompact car, merging into a 70mph lane doing 50 just because i have a passenger in the car or turned the air conditioning on. Saw a mitsubishi mirage turn into a metal pancake out here while merging. Have only seen one other mitsubishi mirage on these roads. That's telling.

Hey, you do what you want with your life. I'm okay with burning 1% more gasoline than the absolute slowest car for sale in the united states.

[wineboyrider]

Occasionally Toyota puts out some real garbage. You cannot trust them to do everything right.

Toyota Matrix 1.8L manual transmissions fail around 75k miles.
The 2.2L engine was famous for engine sludge.
The 2.4L engine that came after that had engine sludge issues and oil burning / consumption issues for over a decade, which got worse near the end of their run in 2012. Over a million cars are affected and Toyota is being shrimpy about fixing them.
First and second generation rav4's had exploding manual transmissions - 5th gear goes out after 150k.
The high revving 1.8L motors in the 2000's would start consuming oil like mad and died very young.
Mid to late 2000's 4runners had frames that would disintegrate in less than a decade. ( Wife's mom had one of those and Toyota did not cover it; the car is a total loss )
Scions and other Toyotas had massive paint quality issues in the 2000's - not sure if this is still going on.

Wife's rav4 with the 2.0 is a nice car but at 140,000 miles it's blowing oil out the rings already and started doing that at 90k. Transmission still going strong because we're nice to it.

2007 Toyota Matrix 1.8l 275,000 miles and counting.Zero non maintenance issues. Zero

[Lebowski]

Testdrive tomorrow in a Honda Jazz CVT 2017, 22000km, costs 65% of new. I like the whole seat folding system, and the cars reliability. Lets see what the cvt is like...

[tomjasz]

Yeah that all sounds nice but my area has nearly no law enforcement and people crash and do stupid things constantly because they're on their cell phones while driving and don't pay attention. We also have a huge opioid problem on top. You have to be extremely defensive out here.
And most cars here weigh 2-3 times more than a compact car.

Don't feel so safe in a subcompact car, merging into a 70mph lane doing 50 just because i have a passenger in the car or turned the air conditioning on. Saw a mitsubishi mirage turn into a metal pancake out here while merging. Have only seen one other mitsubishi mirage on these roads. That's telling.

Hey, you do what you want with your life. I'm okay with burning 1% more gasoline than the absolute slowest car for sale in the united states.

The best reward for leaving Las Vegas. 3 out of 5 at or over the legal limit on a busy weekend. I bought a Yaris, liked it, but was terrified. Kept up at a ridiculous amount of income driving 4 door Tundra. But I felt it was survivable.

If traffic to LA ran 90mph and I maintained the speed, EVERYONE needed to pass me. At any speed I was the ant. Yaris hatch wound be great here in tiny town.

[Lebowski]

Testdrive tomorrow in a Honda Jazz CVT 2017, 22000km, costs 65% of new. I like the whole seat folding system, and the cars reliability. Lets see what the cvt is like...

No jazz cvt for me, the car drives like the engine is filled with molasses. Also on cruise control, with the Swiss up and down terrain, the engine rpm is all over the place and constantly changing.

[neptronix]

The best reward for leaving Las Vegas. 3 out of 5 at or over the legal limit on a busy weekend. I bought a Yaris, liked it, but was terrified. Kept up at a ridiculous amount of income driving 4 door Tundra. But I felt it was survivable.

If traffic to LA ran 90mph and I maintained the speed, EVERYONE needed to pass me. At any speed I was the ant. Yaris hatch wound be great here in tiny town.

Just keep in mind that the Yaris hatch and the Yaris IA are two completely different cars.
The Yaris IA is a rebadged Mazda 2 with an engine that has fantastic torque for it's size, and well dialed in suspension and brakes.
The Yaris hatchback is a boring and slow thing made by Toyota.

Vegas is freaking nuts and much like driving in California. Utah is another story.. less aggression, more stupidity.
Just assume someone will do something stupid here and you'll be pretty safe.

[dogman dan]

Ya guys need to try a Subaru. Yes, you'll be pulling that engine in about 150,000 miles for a valve job, ( on the non turbo types) but when you do it will take 45 min to put that engine on a table. After that its all easy peasy. 2.5 liter engine, and about 23 mpg at 80 mph. So not super mileage, but if you ever drive in snow the all wheel drive is priceless.


The 2010 forester I have cruise controls all day at 90 mph. Not limited by power though, it just wont set above 90. My 1998 forester cruise controlled at 100 mph. The limitation is really the road surface, and traffic. Most of the west I won't set it above 85 because of the road. East of the Mississippi just set it on the 65 mph limit.

New subarus lead their class in crash ratings, so that weight does cost mileage. But I have to say I don't feel naked like I did in the ol 66 bug. I crashed it once at low speed and knocked out the windshield with my head. That's one reason I have no plans to make an old bug electric.

[tomjasz]

l 66 bug. I crashed it once at low speed and knocked out the windshield with my head. That's one reason I have no plans to make an old bug electric.

Agreed!
My 74 super beetle convertible terrified me after totaling out a Camry. We would not have survived in a Bug. But here in Minnesota, the road salt has taken out all the old bugs unless they were garaged until the streets were salt-free and put away again before the salting season. We looked hard at Subaru but the info I could find put the Rav4 in a better light.

[Lebowski]

I'm about to order the most basic Citroen C3. Extremely comfy car also when you're 1m92 tall. Very economical but only 68 hp from a three cilinder non turbo 1.2L . 0 to 60mph take 16.4 seconds. Has the only option I really care for, cruise control (who cares about hp when you're doing 60mph on cruise control).

No radio, no airconditioning. Has comfy seats you would just put in the living room. Suspension is extremely soft and comfortable, but the car behaves as a 70-ies barge (like from starchky and hutch) which i find kind of fun. For a mp3 player I'm thinking about installing a 7" tablet where normally the radio goes, and a bluetooth speaker somewhere (maybe on the shelf behing the passenger seats). Would just love to build an old school tube amplifier for it...

Brand new this car costs 11200 chf (about the same in US $)

[Hillhater]

Im a big fan of Citroen's.
I ran several of them back in the 70s- 80s..the GS models mostly (but also CX.)
https://goo.gl/images/iBC2Cc

Those were super sophisticated technical vehicles with flat 4 , air cooled, motors, hydraulic/gas adjstable suspension , high pressure braking and power steering systems , (that used the car weight to generate the presure !). Inboard disc brakes ?, "lounge quality" seating, etc etc......and class leading aerodynamics.
....but, i dont think today i could contemplate driving any new car that did not have aircon !
Its one of those convenience features that once you have used, its impossible to do without......like starter motors, windsheid washers, or even just a heater....( and yes, i have driven cars without those features !)
......

[tomjasz]

An electric 2CV, my dream car. Never hod so much fun driving a slow car. Electric would be wild.

https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/cit ... is-1980319

[Hillhater]

An electric 2CV, my dream car. Never hod so much fun driving a slow car. ....

In the '70s, i lived/worked in Spain.
A group of us "owned" an old 2CV. ..no roof, no doors, no seats other than the drivers, no exhaust, ....and not much rubber on the tires !......
..but, yes, a great fun car.

[neptronix]

I'm about to order the most basic Citroen C3. Extremely comfy car also when you're 1m92 tall. Very economical but only 68 hp from a three cilinder non turbo 1.2L . 0 to 60mph take 16.4 seconds. Has the only option I really care for, cruise control (who cares about hp when you're doing 60mph on cruise control).

..

Brand new this car costs 11200 chf (about the same in US $)

All i gotta say is, drive it up a mountain before you buy it. That's pretty low power for the weight of the car.
I have a car with a 1.5 that's 50kg heavier and it struggles going up mountain passes at high elevation.

[Lebowski]

I've crossed mountains with my 8 hp scooter, going up 15% inclines in second gear going really slow. This gives a sense of accomplishment you'll never have on a 'proper' motorcycle.

Granted, with 68 hp you'll be in front of the traffic jam, but the next engine up is a 82 hp which is not much faster. The last remaining choise is then the 110hp, which has GDI (gasoline direct injection) and all the numerous problems and costs that come with this.

[Lebowski]

Ordered the Citroen C3 I was talking about, this is what it looks like (for people not familiar with Citroen)
No radio, but will install a 7" tablet and a bluetooth speaker. No airco but will go redneck on that when necessary (frozen bottles in a cooler, with forced airflow over it, or build a dual airflow swamp cooler). But the last year with my Mercedes the airco was broken and I did not really miss it.

c3_1.png (158.26 KiB) Viewed 1275 times

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[markz]

Tato Nano
https://youtu.be/NGEwG62Q1UQ?t=32

[marty]

Never imagined this would happen. In my lifetime, vehicle service manuals were paper books. Then CDs that you could buy on eBay for $30 or so. Now has the world changed? Subscriptions

Chevrolet, acdelcotds.com $1200 Year
FIAT, technicalinformation.fiat.com ?
Ford, motorcraftservice.com $2700 Year
Honda, techinfo.honda.com $350 or $1000 Year
Hyundai, hyundaitechinfo.com $600 Year
Kia, kiatechinfo.snapon.com $1500 Year
Mazda, mazdaserviceinfo.com $2250 Year
Mitsubishi, mitsubishitechinfo.com $1500 Year
Nissan, nissan-techinfo.com $720 Year
Subaru, techinfo.subaru.com $2500 Year
Toyota, techinfo.toyota $480 or $1295 Year
Volkswagen, erwin.vw.com $1500 Year

How to hack into all these web sites?
http://bugmenot.com/
BugMeNot: share logins

Here we are 2 years later. 2019 Honda Fit has been great. No problems until yesterday. Thought car would still have a warranty. Wrote this and printed as a word document so dealer would have a good understanding of what the problem might be.

November 12, 2020

Re: 2019 Honda Fit LX
3XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

November 11, 2020 – Car no start. Sounds like dead battery. Ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti, ti.

November 11, 2020 – Connect battery to 10A charger. Leave it charging all night.

November 12, 2020 – Remove charger. Start car. Let it idle about 5 minutes. Measure voltage at battery while idling. (Headlights and all accessories in off position) See 12.4V

Turn car off. Let it sit for about 5 minutes. Measure voltage at battery with car off. See 12.8V

Connect battery to 10A charger. Let it charge for about 1/2 hour. Measure voltage at battery with charger connected. See 13.4V

Please work on car slowly, carefully, and safely.

Love,
Marty

Yea I know. Problem is most likely the alternator. Went to dealer. Warranty is over. 36,000 miles. I got 47,000 miles. Just as well. Hate the thought of some sloppy mechanic fixing my car as fast as he can. I like to play with my baby.

When car was new I paid the $350 for a one year subscription to view the service manual on line. Best service I have ever used. Here is what I wrote in 2018

OK how to copy all this?
Lets take a look at the horn. PDF drawing nice!
horn.pdf
This is the best easiest to use service manual I have ever seen. Wondering where the horn relay is? Click on it
horn_relay.jpg
Next project https://www.httrack.com/ Hope it works?

Yes I know I could poke around the internet and see how to test the alternator, but I really, really, really, like having a factory service manual. Not seeing a (2019 honda fit service manual) for sale on eBay or any where on the internet. Horrified to see that the Honda company has raised their price for a one year subscription from $350 to $1,250. $100 a month to view a service manual? Not that rich. For Canadian Models $350 a year. Imagine Canada is close enough?

Been happy with http://www.alldatadiy.com/ for other cars. $50 for 5 years. That's OK I can afford that. Newest Honda Fit service manual I am seeing is 2013. Got a feeling that things with 2013 are not quite the same as 2019.

Think I really, really, really, need a user name and password to view service manuals.

[marty]

Why did I want a service manual in 2018 when car was new? Removed bumpers, wheel wells, exterior parts, interior door panels, some of the interior, including dash board. Sprayed rust proofing grease all over. Removed speaker that makes a annoying beeps to remind me that I am a idiot who no wear seat belt. Surprise the same speaker makes noise when key is left in ignition, headlights are left on, and the click, click, noise of directional signals. For those wondering, the speaker is on the back of the instrument cluster. Will leave key in ignition if I want to. Don't need a noise to remind me that someone can steal my car.

Having mixed feelings about no more click, click, noise of directional signals. Yea I am the one who forgot to turn off the directionals.

Also removed spare tire and carpeted that area. Made a nice carpeted plywood door to cover the area where the spare tire used to be.

[marty]

ALLDATA guy came to my shop and gave me a 5 day free trial. Paid $45 for 4 year subscription to https://eautorepair.net which is Mitchell 1 DIY

Comparing the two for 2019 Honda Fit with charging issue. Mitchell 1 is way better. They take you all through taking the alternator all apart. ALLDATA has part numbers and nothing on troubleshooting or repair. Think reason is that car is too new.

Looks like they both have the same wire diagrams. ALLDATA has colors. See attached PDF file.

Charging - Charging Circuit (Starting and Charging) - ALLDATA Repair.pdf

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Best service manual is techinfo.honda.com
Print screen from Mitchell 1.

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Enough looking at computer screens. Might be time to open the hood on the car.

[marty]

alternator_exploded_view

alternator_exploded_view.pdf

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[marty]

Still have not opened the hood.

Read:
Alternator (Voltage) between 12.4v and 14.4v While driving. is this Normal ?
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-gen ... ormal.html

Will test with engine running and headlights and all accessories on.

[marty]

Think the problem was with my mind and the car is fine. So why did the car not start? Battery is small and I did not drive car for a few days. Did open the door a few times during the few days when I did not go anywhere. I leave the headlight switch in the auto position. Got a plastic bottle cap on the photocell so lights are always on when driving. Remembering to turn lights off and on is more then my brain can handle.

Headlights turn on when drivers side door is opened. See copy from owners manual:

Automatic Lighting Off Feature
The headlights, all other exterior lights, and the instrument panel lights turn off 15
seconds after you remove the key or set the power mode to VEHICLE OFF (LOCK),
take the remote with you, and close the driver's door.
If you turn the ignition switch to LOCK (0*1 with the headlight switch on, but do
not open the door, the lights turn off after 10 minutes (3 minutes, if the switch is in
the AUTO position).
The lights turn on again when you unlock or open the driver's door. If you unlock
the door, but do not open it within 15 seconds, the lights go off. If you open the
driver's door, you will hear a lights on reminder chime.

Print screen from Mitchell 1 DIY showing 12.5V I measured 12.4V close enough.

overview02.png (88.24 KiB) Viewed 292 times

[marty]

Things have gone from bad to worse. 2019 Honda Fit LX, 54,000 Uber miles. Warranty is 3 yr/36,000 mi basic, 5 yr/60,000 mi powertrain. So no luck with that.

Yesterday went to Walmart and Tops Friendly Markets. After unloading grocery's in neighbors driveway. Car no start. You know that dead battery sound. Temperature was about 20°. Hook up extension cord and charger. Charge for about a hour. Drive to my garage and charge battery all night.

Before yesterday car did not start one cold morning. The night before headlights came on as usual after I exited car. For no good reason I opened the drivers door a second time, causing the headlight delay timer to come on a second time.

Today drive car to my shop.
Charge battery for about 2 hours.
13.4V with car off.
14.3V with car running headlights on and heater fan on high.
12.4V with car running headlights off and heater fan off.
13.1V with car off.
Remove battery and wash it with soap and water. Measure voltage 13.2V

Waited 5 minutes or longer between each test.

Unless there is something intermittent going on? To me the Voltage readings look like the alternator is good.

Bought the car in November 2018. So the battery is about 2 ½ years old. Thought batteries last 7 to 10 years?

Lets test. Don't guess. Tomorrow will pry off the plastic caps on the battery and look at the water level. Hope to fix this with the cost of a gallon of distilled water.

Any suggestions on a battery load tester?
Harbor Freight battery load tester $20
https://www.harborfreight.com/100a-612v ... 61747.html

More here:
https://shop.snapon.com/categories/Batt ... ers/682185
$285 and up ↑

Yea I know auto part stores will test a battery for free. Used to borrow a battery load tester from a Auto Parts Shop that closed. It would make disturbing smoke during the test.

[LeftieBiker]

You could have a failing starting motor, or bad/dirty connections in the starter circuit. Check the tightness of the connections at the starter, solenoid if it's not mounted right on the starter, and the battery ground. I know you have good battery voltage, but here is a good routine to follow when shutting the car off. (I would try to disable whatever setting runs the lights after the car is off.)

* Turn off heater blower

* Turn off stereo if it's aftermarket.

* Turn off headlights.

* Gently press the gas pedal to slightly rev the engine to about 2-3,000 RPM for 10-20 seconds.

* Let it drop back to idle, then immediately shut the engine off.

This will counter the tendency of cars with small engines to drain the battery slightly at shutoff.