List of small hatchback cars

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marty   10 MW

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 10 2018 7:32am

DAND214 wrote:
Sep 05 2018 6:43pm
Markz WROTE:
FIATS - I have no clue about, Chrysler corp owns them, so that tells you about build quality, unlike the major name imports.
Does that mean they are good since Chrysler imports them? Did you know that Fiat bought Chrysler in 2014? Now it's FCA corp.
I had a 1063 Fiat 500 as my first car. Fun but way too small. Only got 6 kids in it in a major snow storm.

Dan
Wow you must be very old! Didn't know they made cars in 1063? Did you mean to type 1963?
FIAT_500_D_1963_800w.jpg.jpg
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Last edited by marty on Sep 10 2018 7:51am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 10 2018 7:43am

Chalo wrote:
Sep 05 2018 9:55pm
Image

In a hideous northern climate, I suppose being alive, hunkered down in a coffinmobile, beats freezing to death on a bike, with some dignity.

Both cars and hideous northern climates are avoidable, though.
Chalo,
You might be suffering from heat stroke? Drink some water. Come to Buffalo. Beautiful weather. Today its raining. I never been to Texas. Imagine weather is stupid hot? Do agree with you that a 2600 pound car is a dangerous, foolish way to transport a 140 pound human. Wife and I walk to the supermarket about 1 mile from our house.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 10 2018 7:50am

neptronix wrote:
Sep 09 2018 11:05am
Get a used Mazda2.
It is the most aerodynamic little hatchie on the road in the USA.

Also if you can go without a hatchback.. look at the Yaris IA.
It's fuel economy is grossly understated and it is a peach to wrench on. The underhood layout is great and the car is about 2300lbs.
I managed >50mpg highway while test driving one.

The regular Yaris doesn't have the same 1.5 direct injection motor and thus won't pull the same fuel economy, nor have the same low end torque as the IA.
I wouldn't bother with it.
Yaris IA. Front of car looks like the mouth of a fish.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by DAND214 » Sep 10 2018 9:38am

marty wrote:
Sep 10 2018 7:32am
DAND214 wrote:
Sep 05 2018 6:43pm
Markz WROTE:
FIATS - I have no clue about, Chrysler corp owns them, so that tells you about build quality, unlike the major name imports.
Does that mean they are good since Chrysler imports them? Did you know that Fiat bought Chrysler in 2014? Now it's FCA corp.
I had a 1063 Fiat 500 as my first car. Fun but way too small. Only got 6 kids in it in a major snow storm.

Dan
Wow you must be very old! Didn't know they made cars in 1063? Did you mean to type 1963?
FIAT_500_D_1963_800w.jpg.jpg
Yep, your right I'm old. You are right on the typo and yes that looks like the car. Suicide doors rag roof. Repainted mine, wish I had a picture of it.

Good luck with your car hunt.

Dan

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by neptronix » Sep 10 2018 12:21pm

Yup Marty..
Aerodynamic designs often look compromised that way.
The Mazda2 chassis shares some characteristics with the Model 3's front end.. IE it's tapered, and kind of has a duck bill thing going on.
The one thing it doesn't have... is proper under panels.
Here is a car that will do 55-60mpg at 60mph.. just imagine if the aerodynamics were improved further with a simple hack..

A Yaris IA / Mazda2 is the closest thing you're going to get to a very cheap, very easy to maintain non-hybrid car that gets hybrid-esque fuel economy.

..i'll stop rambling if that isn't important to any of you :lol:
Efficiency is everything :bolt:


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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by markz » Sep 10 2018 12:27pm

Those are amazing fuel mileage numbers. How is the interior in terms of space for the 6 foot plus, clubbers?
I would however go with the sedan model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Demio
neptronix wrote:
Sep 10 2018 12:21pm
Here is a car that will do 55-60mpg at 60mph.. just imagine if the aerodynamics were improved further with a simple hack..

A Yaris IA / Mazda2 is the closest thing you're going to get to a very cheap, very easy to maintain non-hybrid car that gets hybrid-esque fuel economy.

..i'll stop rambling if that isn't important to any of you :lol:
Last edited by markz on Sep 10 2018 12:31pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by billvon » Sep 10 2018 12:31pm

dustNbone wrote:
Sep 06 2018 3:10pm
The Focus is probably the best domestic on the list.
Well, you can take that one off the list. Another victim of the new tariffs.
--bill von

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by neptronix » Sep 10 2018 12:44pm

Well, i'm 6 feet tall and i've sat in the back before. No tilting of the head is required. They've done a good job maximizing the space in that car.
Actually they could have had a lower roof, at least in the front.. because there's like half a foot of extra space for my head.
So as far as head room goes, it's got as much as my Nissan Maxima, which is enough :)
markz wrote:
Sep 10 2018 12:27pm
Those are amazing fuel mileage numbers. How is the interior in terms of space for the 6 foot plus, clubbers?
I would however go with the sedan model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Demio
Efficiency is everything :bolt:


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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by Hillhater » Sep 10 2018 4:48pm

billvon wrote:
Sep 10 2018 12:31pm
dustNbone wrote:
Sep 06 2018 3:10pm
The Focus is probably the best domestic on the list.
Well, you can take that one off the list. Another victim of the new tariffs.
If you are concerned about costs, you should not even be considering a brand new car.
Look for the 1-2 yr old depreciated models with a few years manufacturers warranty still valid.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by billvon » Sep 10 2018 4:50pm

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 10 2018 4:48pm
If you are concerned about costs, you should not even be considering a brand new car.
Look for the 1-2 yr old depreciated models with a few years manufacturers warranty still valid.
Agreed there. You can save a lot of money without sacrificing a lot of life by buying cars a few years old.
--bill von

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by -dg » Sep 11 2018 6:13am

neptronix wrote:
Sep 09 2018 11:08am
The Fit would be my new #2 choice because the power it has.. the unfortunate thing is that it has smaller tires than the Yaris IA.. so the ride was rougher on our roads which are potholey nightmares.
I hated the Yaris I drove as a rental. As I remember, it did not ride well and the there was no feedback from the steering or controls so it was hard to drive smoothly. Maybe they got better, but would not look at those. Mazda 2 is something we considered before the Fit and it was OK. Mazda 3 is a nice drive, but the Fit has more utility.
If simplicity worked, the world would be overrun with insects.

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 12 2018 7:48am

Few random thoughts.
$300 to $3000 for a subscription to view a service manual for a year? Outrageous!
See:
Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act
Are there any laws requiring auto manufactures to sell parts and service manuals or technical information / techinfo for a REASONABLE price? If I become confused with computers or connecting a computer to a car. I be happy to pay for some help. Just think that this subscription idea is another way to take my money every month.

Thinking about buying a Tesla? Think again.
https://service.teslamotors.com/
24 HR.
SUBSCRIPTION
$100.00

MONTHLY
SUBSCRIPTION
$350.00

ANNUAL
SUBSCRIPTION
$3000.00

Where I come from, you can rent a small apartment for $350 a month.

For all you who say don't worry car has a 5 year warranty. I do worry and I used to be a boy scout. Boy Scouts motto. BE PREPARED. I will buy nothing without a service manual. I am 100% sure that every car on my list of small hatchbacks will break and will need to be repaired.

Going here https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.aspx will pay $350 for a 365 Day Subscription.
Called ServiceExpress Support Center (877) 504-3571 7:30 am, my time, eastern time, Computer confusion help guy seemed knowledgeable and spoke perfect English. Asked if 2019 cars were included, since today is still 2018. He said yes.
Anyone got any other service manual options? Please tell me.

Hope this works?
https://www.httrack.com/
HTTrack Website Copier - Free Software Offline Browser (GNU GPL)

Any other software or ways to copy a website?

We need a technical information library.
technicalinformationlibrary.com domain is available
techinfolibrary.com domain is available
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by neptronix » Sep 12 2018 10:44am

-dg wrote:
Sep 11 2018 6:13am
I hated the Yaris I drove as a rental. As I remember, it did not ride well and the there was no feedback from the steering or controls so it was hard to drive smoothly. Maybe they got better, but would not look at those. Mazda 2 is something we considered before the Fit and it was OK. Mazda 3 is a nice drive, but the Fit has more utility.
Was it the hatchback? because yes, i would agree with you, but that's a completely different car than the Yaris IA.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:


My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: ? on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by neptronix » Sep 12 2018 11:19am

Lol, paying to see a service manual..

You know how fast those get pirated?
You know how easy it is to pirate those?
Efficiency is everything :bolt:


My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: ? on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.

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marty   10 MW

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 12 2018 12:10pm

neptronix wrote:
Sep 12 2018 11:19am
Lol, paying to see a service manual..

You know how fast those get pirated?
You know how easy it is to pirate those?
I know how to get music and movies. Torrent. Yes did once find a torrent 1992-l996 3000GT Service Manual. Looks like scan of paper. Be happy to share with anyone who would like this.

Where you find a 2019 Honda Fit service manual? 2018 should be close enough.

How exactly would you create a pirate service manual?
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by Hillhater » Sep 12 2018 6:35pm

Marty,
Why buy a showroom new car if you are so certain its going to break down ?
Cars have moved on since the Model T, or even the Mustang etc. breakdowns are rare and useually due to owner negligence..
Most folk buy new for the peace of mind knowing the probability of failure in the warranty period is small and the warranty (usually with roadside assistance included). Fixed cost (or free) servicing will resolve any incidents that do occur , at nil or minimal cost.
Buy a 12 month old car, fron a reputable source, with warranty etc, save 30% on price and drive it until there is an issue .. Battery failure is most likely to be your first issue ...replace it after 4 years and you are sweet for a few more years.
Then , ..maybe 3-5 years down the track, worry about finding a service manual (probably free on line by then !), or just pay a professional a few hundred to fix the car whilst you chill and drink beer.
PS a sevice manual is only part of the picture, unless you have all the specialist tools, electronic diagnostic hardware and software,..and specialist skills to use them.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by -dg » Sep 12 2018 8:28pm

neptronix wrote:
Sep 12 2018 10:44am
-dg wrote:
Sep 11 2018 6:13am
I hated the Yaris I drove as a rental. As I remember, it did not ride well and the there was no feedback from the steering or controls so it was hard to drive smoothly.
Was it the hatchback? because yes, i would agree with you, but that's a completely different car than the Yaris IA.
Yes, it was the hatchback. For what it's worth, my son took driver training in a Yaris hatchback too and hated it as well. Too bad because they are kind of cute.
If simplicity worked, the world would be overrun with insects.

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 13 2018 12:13am

Hillhater wrote:
Sep 12 2018 6:35pm
Marty,
Why buy a showroom new car if you are so certain its going to break down ?
Cars have moved on since the Model T, or even the Mustang etc. breakdowns are rare and useually due to owner negligence..
Most folk buy new for the peace of mind knowing the probability of failure in the warranty period is small and the warranty (usually with roadside assistance included). Fixed cost (or free) servicing will resolve any incidents that do occur , at nil or minimal cost.
Buy a 12 month old car, fron a reputable source, with warranty etc, save 30% on price and drive it until there is an issue .. Battery failure is most likely to be your first issue ...replace it after 4 years and you are sweet for a few more years.
Then , ..maybe 3-5 years down the track, worry about finding a service manual (probably free on line by then !), or just pay a professional a few hundred to fix the car whilst you chill and drink beer.
PS a sevice manual is only part of the picture, unless you have all the specialist tools, electronic diagnostic hardware and software,..and specialist skills to use them.
Hillhater you must be very lucky with cars or you get a new one every 2 years? Just did a mental inventory of all my vehicles and they all are broke. Oldest year first.
1996 Volvo 960 Wagon - Misfire cylinder 2. Hope to get that fixed sometime during this lifetime. Put blocks under body so the tires don't get square. Also dreaming about painting the Volvo violet or orange?
2003 Suzuki Aerio - Been waiting a week for a alternator. Just got it yesterday.
A2B electric bicycle - Bought in 2010. Used to go 10 miles no problem. Now it goes 8. Battery getting old? Gave bike to a girl. She happy :D
2012 Isuzu Reach - 5 year warranty just ran out last month and the check engine light came on.

I might be weird? But I enjoy learning about and fixing stuff. After my battle with IBM and Toshiba I am paranoid about not having software for my hardware. Read about battle here - POS [Point Of Sale] system for restaurant

Fixed my own vehicles that were under warranty. Just take the old part to the dealer and they give me a new part no charge, They do make me fill out a form with mileage and stuff. I just like fixing my own stuff.

Not to worry, I got so many tools, some of them, I forgot what they do?
MARTY
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 13 2018 12:19am

Electroddy wrote:
Sep 06 2018 11:04pm
EVen though I'm a Honda guy, I'd say get the Subbie. Where you live and drive, it should be the only choice. All wheel drive, plenty of room, and decent fuel economy. For the rust problem, undercoat, then undercoat again. A weekly wash and wax during winter will also help a lot.
Re: "For the rust problem, undercoat, then undercoat again."

Undercoat with what?
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by neptronix » Sep 13 2018 8:48am

Yeah, the hatchback Yarises are nice looking cars.
I have found the service manual for everything i've ever owned by visiting car specific forums. Someone always has a link up somewhere.
OR.. pay the toll for access to the service manual and liberate it yourself with screenshots, compile it into a PDF, upload it to the net..
Efficiency is everything :bolt:


My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: ? on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by Electroddy » Sep 13 2018 8:30pm

marty wrote:
Sep 13 2018 12:19am
Electroddy wrote:
Sep 06 2018 11:04pm
EVen though I'm a Honda guy, I'd say get the Subbie. Where you live and drive, it should be the only choice. All wheel drive, plenty of room, and decent fuel economy. For the rust problem, undercoat, then undercoat again. A weekly wash and wax during winter will also help a lot.
Re: "For the rust problem, undercoat, then undercoat again."

Undercoat with what?
Undercoat is a spray-on rubberized coating similar to Rhino-Liner for truck beds. Use two coats to ensure all the nooks and crannies are covered. It should keep the salt from eating the steel.
1978 FL250 Honda Odyssey converted to 36v electric

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by Chalo » Sep 14 2018 2:02am

Electroddy wrote:
Sep 13 2018 8:30pm
marty wrote:
Sep 13 2018 12:19am
Re: "For the rust problem, undercoat, then undercoat again."

Undercoat with what?
Undercoat is a spray-on rubberized coating similar to Rhino-Liner for truck beds. Use two coats to ensure all the nooks and crannies are covered. It should keep the salt from eating the steel.
Man, I was sorely tempted to suggest a mixture of cod liver oil and pine tar.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 15 2018 8:17am

http://eautorepair.net/Marketing/Default.asp
Do it Yourself Automobile Repair Manuals - Mitchell 1 DIY
1 Month (31 Days) : $ 19.95
1 Year (Best Value) : $ 29.95
4 Year (Best Value) : $ 44.95

Newest year is 2017
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 16 2018 7:16am

I am so upset about having to purchase a subscription to view service manuals, I have decided to write my own service manual. Will buy a 2019 Honda Fit and take it all apart. Every nut, every bolt, every piece and part. Miles of colored wire. Document everything and take thousands of pictures. Convert photographs to line drawings showing how everything comes apart.
line.gif
line.gif (45.19 KiB) Viewed 685 times
For line drawings I like black ink on white paper. Colors for electrical schematic, circuit diagrams. Any electric diagram drawer who doesn't use wire colors in a drawing should be killed. Colors on a computer screen don't require more ink.

Reassemble and I should have a good knowledge of how to fix my car if something breaks.
MARTY
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Re: List of small hatchback cars

Post by marty » Sep 16 2018 8:18am

Let compare Mitsubishi Mirage and Honda Fit...... Owners Manuals. Owner manuals are a good way to learn about cars. Which pedal makes it go and which pedal makes it stop? This is important information.

https://www.mitsubishicars.com/owners/service
Click on Service. See Manuals. OK need to Create an Account to get into MY GARAGE. Yea OK guess if I am going to buy a brand new 2018 Mitsubishi Mirage a make pretend garage might be nice? So I create an account. Now mitsubishicars.com wants to know what in the vehicle number of my new car? What am I going to do? I got to go STEAL a car to look at the frocken service manual. Random vehicle number from 2018 Mitsubishi Mirage for sale on the internet. ML32A3HJ9JH003389

OK now I am the proud owner of a PDF 2018 Mitsubishi Mirage Owners Manual :?

All ya paranoid, proprietary, secretive, idiots at Mitsubishi what the hell is the matter with you? Good job on building the lowest cost best gas mileage small hatchback car. Ya think I would buy a car from a company that makes me jump through hoops to get a PDF Owners Manual? Think again. Yesterday my Samsung printer broke. Samsung seems to have lost interest in there defective software printers and gave the whole business to HP. Without new software from HP my printer would still be broke. All ya paranoid, proprietary, secretive, idiots at Mitsubishi if you don't want me to look at your owners manual? Do you think I would trust that you give me software if my car breaks? Take your proprietary secretive 2018 Mitsubishi Mirage and crush it into scrap metal! Went to a Mitsubishi dealer and sat in a leftover 2017 Mitsubishi Mirage. Nice seats :D

Lets try Honda.
http://owners.honda.com/vehicle-information/manuals
Download owner manual. Done. Thank you Honda. That is the way that Owners Manuals should be.

End of rant. Now lets look at the Owners Manuals.
mitsubishi_mirage_dash.png
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honda_fit_dash.png
honda_fit_dash.png (256.42 KiB) Viewed 889 times
Nice clear PDF line drawing on the Mitsubishi Mirage. Sorry if my screen save is fuzzy. Should take a close look at the words in both manuals and see which one is easier to understand.
MARTY
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