List of small hatchback cars
Re: List of small hatchback cars
New Rav is sweet IMO. Picked it up yesterday. Thrilled by the tow capacity and tongue weight. The upihtposition make getting in and out easily no more gunning an groaning and depending on my cane to rise up and out. Mileage sucks,but good visual positioning unlike the Prius. Everything high mileage was jun or loading 150lbs of bike on the rear.
Congratulations on the Fit. Rather liked it even if a it noisy. I sill miss the spartan interiorsofte AC VW Beatle. THAT was the easiest engine except in Saab 95 & 96 (1/2 Ford 289).
Congratulations on the Fit. Rather liked it even if a it noisy. I sill miss the spartan interiorsofte AC VW Beatle. THAT was the easiest engine except in Saab 95 & 96 (1/2 Ford 289).
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.
Re: List of small hatchback cars
I'm a little surprised nobody mentioned one of the Prius variants. Typically these are very reliable.
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- edcastrovalley 1 kW
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
We have two 2007 Prius's (Prii) and you're right, they've been very reliable except for maybe the oil rings. These cars start burning oil sometime after 100K miles. The trick is to switch them from 5w30 to 10w30 oil which cuts oil consumption by quite a bit though not completely. I figured this out a little too late for my blue prius which I've owned since new and the car now kicks out an error code saying the catalytic converter is only 95% efficient.
95% sounds really good to me however, it won't pass smog next March of 2019.

Our green base model prius that our adult boys drive is doing great inspite of their Nascar style driving. I would guess this car to go first but go figure. Both cars have just over 150k on them.
Re: List of small hatchback cars
A prius is much bigger than a small hatchbar car and roughly 3 times the price...
Re: List of small hatchback cars
The Prius-C is pretty dang small. And with so many of them out there, you can get a used one for very cheap.
--bill von
- dogman dan 100 GW
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
Let us know how you like the fit. I was real interested in them for awhile, to replace the wifes focus. Ended up replacing that focus that burned with a v8 half ton van.
Two saint bernards fit in it much better than a fit, which would not I think, fit somebody that is 6 foot 4. Two buck gas definitely influenced that decision, and the under 3 grand price for it. Figured that would be a temporary purchase at the time, but now its needed to tow a gigantic trailer to the mountains in summer. Retirement is sweet!
But let us know how you fit in the fit. Buying one is still a possibility one of these days, but in the stick so it can be RV towed.


But let us know how you fit in the fit. Buying one is still a possibility one of these days, but in the stick so it can be RV towed.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
Drove 400 miles to buy the Blue Fit. She/He now needs a name. Old Suzuki is named Suzy. First we rented a Ford Focus Hatchback with all the bells and whistles. Dash board was easy to figure out. Not sure where the radio signal came from? Sirius? Grateful Dead is good for listening on long trips. Focus had a flat tire. Before leaving Buffalo put air in it. Car got half way across Ohio before tire went flat again. Stopped at a car rental place and got a Toyota Yaris Hatchback with no cruse control, no key-less entry.
Marty's Car review. All cars had 4 doors plus the hatch back.
Focus - Hard to see where I going. Like the dash board. Radio sounds good. Seat made my back hurt. Power seat. Yes tried adjusting the lower back support control.
Toyota Yaris Hatchback - Small.
Honda Fit - Seats fold all different ways. Was hoping it would fold flat like a bed. It almost does. Pillows would help. See picture.

Sucks when ya got to cut the roof off to take a picture. Of the 3 cars. Fit has best windows to see where I am going. I am 5' 6" so I fit in any car. Radio reception in the Fit was the best of any car I have ever owned. Got to learn about music from Bluetooth or USB. Green and blue lights near the speedometer. Think they tell me how much gas I am using? Wonder if I could make light turn red if I stomp on gas pedal?
For me seeing where I am going is really important. Fit is the best. Blue paint looks good. Not seeing any excessive orange peal. Haven't given paint a close look in different lighting.
Got a long list of modifications to do on the fit. Please stay tuned.
Marty's Car review. All cars had 4 doors plus the hatch back.
Focus - Hard to see where I going. Like the dash board. Radio sounds good. Seat made my back hurt. Power seat. Yes tried adjusting the lower back support control.
Toyota Yaris Hatchback - Small.
Honda Fit - Seats fold all different ways. Was hoping it would fold flat like a bed. It almost does. Pillows would help. See picture.

Sucks when ya got to cut the roof off to take a picture. Of the 3 cars. Fit has best windows to see where I am going. I am 5' 6" so I fit in any car. Radio reception in the Fit was the best of any car I have ever owned. Got to learn about music from Bluetooth or USB. Green and blue lights near the speedometer. Think they tell me how much gas I am using? Wonder if I could make light turn red if I stomp on gas pedal?
For me seeing where I am going is really important. Fit is the best. Blue paint looks good. Not seeing any excessive orange peal. Haven't given paint a close look in different lighting.
Got a long list of modifications to do on the fit. Please stay tuned.
Last edited by marty on Nov 16 2018 6:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- dogman dan 100 GW
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
how a car fits IS important. the wifes focus cars always made my back hurt, both of em. I'm taller, so I saw out of them fine. But the foresters have been the car that fits me best. No back hurts with those seats.
Van has the best seats though, long as gas stays below three bucks its now the choice for a long drive. Its old, but has the limo conversion so the seats are great.
Van has the best seats though, long as gas stays below three bucks its now the choice for a long drive. Its old, but has the limo conversion so the seats are great.
Frankenbike longtail
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bolt on longtail https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74584
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Beach cruiser converted to long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... r#p1045572
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bolt on longtail https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74584
The mixte long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74384
Beach cruiser converted to long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... r#p1045572
Re: List of small hatchback cars
Buy a little electronic gadget with flashing LED lights that fools the computer to think catalytic converter is OK. If I remember correctly? Company that made it was called O2sim.com as in oxygen sensor simulator. Web site is gone?edcastrovalley wrote: ↑Nov 14 2018 11:48amcar now kicks out an error code saying the catalytic converter is only 95% efficient.
95% sounds really good to me however, it won't pass smog next March of 2019.![]()
Service manual will tell ya which wires to splice into at the computer.
Matteo's Mobile Bicycle repair
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
First project was going to be rustproofing. Will start a different topic on that. First we got a problem. Think that rustproofing is best sprayed on a clean car. Bad planing here. The day that I drove the car home, we had our first winter storm of the season. Freezing rain and slush. Plow drivers must have been excited because they put a few thousand tons of salt on the roads. Car now has 400 miles of salt water spray all over it. Plan is to jack it up outside and take the wheels off. Hose off with water. Let it dry for a few days inside with fan in heated shop. As a service to all Fit/Jazz mechanics on planet earth, here are Lift and Support Points.
Last edited by marty on Nov 18 2018 2:11pm, edited 1 time in total.
Matteo's Mobile Bicycle repair
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
Agreed, which ended our high mileage car days. I have to seriously struggle to get up off the floor in some. The new Camry is even lower than our 2005. The Prius C was a noise box as were several other similar cars. Sitting up van or truck style really makes for a more pleasant drive. I can see why you'd go Van. We have similar disabilities.dogman dan wrote: ↑Nov 16 2018 6:26pmhow a car fits IS important. the wifes focus cars always made my back hurt, both of em. I'm taller, so I saw out of them fine. But the foresters have been the car that fits me best. No back hurts with those seats.
Van has the best seats though, long as gas stays below three bucks its now the choice for a long drive. Its old, but has the limo conversion so the seats are great.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
While actually classified as a medium size car, most folks consider most models of the Toyota Prius hatchback, a small car. I believe the Prius C is classified as a small car, and like most Prius' it is a hatchback.
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2011 Catrike Villager (daughter's)
2014 TerraTrike Rover i8 tandem w/e-assist (BBSHD)
2015 TerraTrike Traveler (wife's)
2016 Catrike 559 w/Schlumpf/Rohloff
Re: List of small hatchback cars
Earlier versions of the Prius were classified as small cars. They grew a bit with each generation, until they hit the "medium" category.TrikeBirder wrote: ↑Nov 21 2018 12:42amWhile actually classified as a medium size car, most folks consider most models of the Toyota Prius hatchback, a small car. I believe the Prius C is classified as a small car, and like most Prius' it is a hatchback.
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- dogman dan 100 GW
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
How is the noise level of the fit? That was the other turn off for me, on the focus.
The ford focus was not bad noisy, like our tiny ford festiva was. But after I drove the Subaru a lot I got used to pretty darn quiet ride. Then we'd sometimes take a longer trip in the focus just for the better mileage. Then I'd be hating the noise of it by the end of the first hour.
Now the priority has changed, house payment gone, the priority is the seat, the seat, and the seat. Both our old van and the Subaru have a comfy enough seat. But will take the van when the drive is over 4 hours for sure.
The ford focus was not bad noisy, like our tiny ford festiva was. But after I drove the Subaru a lot I got used to pretty darn quiet ride. Then we'd sometimes take a longer trip in the focus just for the better mileage. Then I'd be hating the noise of it by the end of the first hour.
Now the priority has changed, house payment gone, the priority is the seat, the seat, and the seat. Both our old van and the Subaru have a comfy enough seat. But will take the van when the drive is over 4 hours for sure.
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Beach cruiser converted to long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... r#p1045572
Re: List of small hatchback cars
I found the fit to be frustratingly noisy. With or without hearing aids. Unlike the old Bugs, the entire class are rattle boxes.dogman dan wrote: ↑Nov 22 2018 7:47amHow is the noise level of the fit? That was the other turn off for me, on the focus.
The ford focus was not bad noisy, like our tiny ford festiva was. But after I drove the Subaru a lot I got used to pretty darn quiet ride. Then we'd sometimes take a longer trip in the focus just for the better mileage. Then I'd be hating the noise of it by the end of the first hour.
Now the priority has changed, house payment gone, the priority is the seat, the seat, and the seat. Both our old van and the Subaru have a comfy enough seat. But will take the van when the drive is over 4 hours for sure.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.
- dogman dan 100 GW
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
I thought that might be the case with the fit. At least a bit noisy to drive freeway speed. ( out here, that's 85 mph btw, 75 speed limit) Not a problem if its a drive half an hour to work car, but on a 700 mile drive, quieter gets nice. With the focus vs the subaru, it was noise coming from the front tires through the floor. And a few rattles in the dash.
As cars have gotten more aero, less likely to have wind noise. Nothing beat the 80's 90's ford trucks for that. Always a big roar from the mirrors, and at least one window or door crack whistling away.
As cars have gotten more aero, less likely to have wind noise. Nothing beat the 80's 90's ford trucks for that. Always a big roar from the mirrors, and at least one window or door crack whistling away.
Frankenbike longtail
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bolt on longtail https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74584
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Beach cruiser converted to long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... r#p1045572
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... cing+betty.
bolt on longtail https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74584
The mixte long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74384
Beach cruiser converted to long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... r#p1045572
Re: List of small hatchback cars
I wasn't thrilled by my lovelies choice of a RAV4, but it's quieter than a Camry. Surprised the heck out of me. Being a hearing aid wearer the devices amplify road noise. Every KIA made my head want to explode with tinny sounds. The Toyota Prius C was the crappiest of all! I really WANTED to like and live with a small car, but I'm too old to put up with that!dogman dan wrote: ↑Nov 24 2018 7:24amI thought that might be the case with the fit. At least a bit noisy to drive freeway speed. ( out here, that's 85 mph btw, 75-speed limit) Not a problem if its a drive half an hour to work car, but on a 700-mile drive, quieter gets nice. With the focus vs the Subaru, it was noise coming from the front tires through the floor. And a few rattles in the dash.
As cars have gotten more aero, less likely to have wind noise. Nothing beat the 80's 90's ford trucks for that. Always a big roar from the mirrors, and at least one window or door crack whistling away.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.
Re: List of small hatchback cars
Yaris IA is very quiet. Quieter than my Maxima actually, and that thing had tons of sound deadening.
Aerodynamics and tall tire shape probably have a lot to do with it.
I have very good hearing, and a noisy car is not for me. Owned a Honda Civic from the 90's and couldn't stand it. Looked at every generation of Civic and Corolla and even the Toyota made Yaris.. couldn't stand them.
You shouldn't have to be penalized for driving a fuel efficient car. Just 50lbs of sound deadening would help... not the full 100+ some luxury cars have.
Most hatchbacks are noisy by nature due to their structure. Those are probably out if you have sensitive hearing.
Aerodynamics and tall tire shape probably have a lot to do with it.
I have very good hearing, and a noisy car is not for me. Owned a Honda Civic from the 90's and couldn't stand it. Looked at every generation of Civic and Corolla and even the Toyota made Yaris.. couldn't stand them.
You shouldn't have to be penalized for driving a fuel efficient car. Just 50lbs of sound deadening would help... not the full 100+ some luxury cars have.
Most hatchbacks are noisy by nature due to their structure. Those are probably out if you have sensitive hearing.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
Are we talking rattles, engine noise, wind noise, or road (tire) noise?
I think the worst in past vehicles I have owned was the wind noise in our soft-top Jeep Wrangler. After an hour at highway speeds you became painfully aware that you were going deaf. As bad or worse as the rattling doors of a Utilimaster step van I drove back from Barstow once, I literally could not hear for an hour afterward.
Noise from studded snow tires can be annoying, as can 4WD truck tires. Smaller vehicles revving high gets old on long trips. Maybe that's why Rolls Royce doesn't have a compact car. I've never driven one, but verify as a passenger that you can hear only the dashboard clock when cruising along.
I think the worst in past vehicles I have owned was the wind noise in our soft-top Jeep Wrangler. After an hour at highway speeds you became painfully aware that you were going deaf. As bad or worse as the rattling doors of a Utilimaster step van I drove back from Barstow once, I literally could not hear for an hour afterward.
Noise from studded snow tires can be annoying, as can 4WD truck tires. Smaller vehicles revving high gets old on long trips. Maybe that's why Rolls Royce doesn't have a compact car. I've never driven one, but verify as a passenger that you can hear only the dashboard clock when cruising along.

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Re: List of small hatchback cars
Newer small cars with direct injection engines are very quiet.
You'd be surprised.
I test drove them all. DI motors are pretty nice. ( except for that whole, cleaning the intake valves part out every ~50,000 miles )
You'd be surprised.
I test drove them all. DI motors are pretty nice. ( except for that whole, cleaning the intake valves part out every ~50,000 miles )
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
Re: List of small hatchback cars
Yep, and this business with the valves, for me at least, is why I would not buy one. It is a problem that slowly build up until one day cilinders stop firing. But long before then carbon build up will increase fuel use and cause engine power to drop. Its just inherently flawed.
Im now lookin at the Citroen C3 as the main contender, with the 68 or 82 hp port injected engine. 3 cilinders, 1.2 L of raw French... well...
For me it is the comfy and well adjustable interior that does it.
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Re: List of small hatchback cars
Being better aero, cars from the last 10 years have pretty much fixed wind noise. But both focuses we had, you could really hear the tires. Worse of course, on any older, or new chip seal road. Just poor sound insulation around the wheel wells I think, combined with the closer position of the tire on a modern front wheel drive car. It was not real bad, just got old after drives over an hour long. You could have a conversation, or listen to radio, but not both. A quiet car needs less volume to hear the radio. Even for a deaf old carpenter like me.
Rattles can be a problem with any car, but the focus had them pretty bad, all in the dash area. The 05 had it much worse than the 00. I hope they improved the dash assembly, but the 05 was the first year of the new version, so I suspect they suck well into 2010 or so.
Three subarus from 80's through 08 have all been very quiet cars, with zero rattles except for cargo. Like your shovel needs re positioning. And low wheel noise, even with a more winter tread type tire. Very low wind noise, except for when skis or boats are on the roof. But even driving around with kyack J racks on the roof at 85 mph, not that loud through the well insulated car body. They foam the subarus, so they do well in hot and cold too.
Rattles can be a problem with any car, but the focus had them pretty bad, all in the dash area. The 05 had it much worse than the 00. I hope they improved the dash assembly, but the 05 was the first year of the new version, so I suspect they suck well into 2010 or so.
Three subarus from 80's through 08 have all been very quiet cars, with zero rattles except for cargo. Like your shovel needs re positioning. And low wheel noise, even with a more winter tread type tire. Very low wind noise, except for when skis or boats are on the roof. But even driving around with kyack J racks on the roof at 85 mph, not that loud through the well insulated car body. They foam the subarus, so they do well in hot and cold too.
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bolt on longtail https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74584
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bolt on longtail https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74584
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Beach cruiser converted to long tail. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... r#p1045572
Re: List of small hatchback cars
I was about to pull the trigger on a brand spankin' new Honda insight actually.Lebowski wrote: ↑Nov 25 2018 5:49amYep, and this business with the valves, for me at least, is why I would not buy one. It is a problem that slowly build up until one day cilinders stop firing. But long before then carbon build up will increase fuel use and cause engine power to drop. Its just inherently flawed.
Im now lookin at the Citroen C3 as the main contender, with the 68 or 82 hp port injected engine. 3 cilinders, 1.2 L of raw French... well...
I did a quick napkin math calculation..
Over a 15 year lifespan, the hybrid:
+ Costs $8300 more to purchase.
+ Will require the replacement of a battery and/or other electric component, most likely.. $3000.
- $2000 in fuel, because fuel is so cheap now and will probably remain so.
Total premium over the DI econobox is $9300.
Versus the DI car..
+ 4x intake cleanings at an estimated $1000 each = $4000.
+ Eventual injector replacement.. $125 each plus $500 labor estimate = $1000
So over a 15 year lifetime of the car, the DI car costs me $4300 less.
Port injected means less fuel economy and less power. Not something i can live with.
Puts you back to the 1980's in regards to power to weight ratio, now that cars have scads of extra metal so that they can collide with monster suvs and trucks.. :/
Dunno about your cars on that side of the pond, but ours are super heavy these days, so you have to decide whether you want a 11 second 0-60 ( port injected ) or a 8-9 second 0-60 ( direct injected ).
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
Re: List of small hatchback cars
The typical car here like the Citroen C3 weighs 1000 kg, so 2200 pounds. The C3 has a claimed 0-100kmh of around 15 seconds for the 82hp version. Which is more than fast enough for me, I care about being able to reach 100
, not how long it takes to get there. Top speed is 160 kmh (100mph), so no problem with the typical 120 kmh speed limit.
But the real gem here is the cruise control (which comes as standard). Ok so it takes a while to reach 100, but once you get there you set the cruise control. From that point on you're not going to notice anymore that the car is weak, as you dont notice how much gas the cruise control gives. It will just hobble along doing 100, just as a 200hp car would. My favorite speed where I sit at by the way, independent of 100 or 120 speed limit, is 95... my 73 year old mam finds that I drive slow, and tells me she notices the much better gas mileage for when I drive...
To put things in perspective, i used to have a 12 sec 0-100 car which I found very fast, never gave it full throttle as I found the accelleration too much. Also I have done a 1600km trip on a 8hp scooter...
About DI, think about how it fails. Reading online, the engine will start to misfire, check engine lights come on, car goes into limp mode or just refuses to run. Its a failure mode that leaves you stranded by the road. Its different if your car is for local trips to work and the shops, but I am buying the car for long distance travel. I dont want that sort of failure hanging over me.

But the real gem here is the cruise control (which comes as standard). Ok so it takes a while to reach 100, but once you get there you set the cruise control. From that point on you're not going to notice anymore that the car is weak, as you dont notice how much gas the cruise control gives. It will just hobble along doing 100, just as a 200hp car would. My favorite speed where I sit at by the way, independent of 100 or 120 speed limit, is 95... my 73 year old mam finds that I drive slow, and tells me she notices the much better gas mileage for when I drive...
To put things in perspective, i used to have a 12 sec 0-100 car which I found very fast, never gave it full throttle as I found the accelleration too much. Also I have done a 1600km trip on a 8hp scooter...
About DI, think about how it fails. Reading online, the engine will start to misfire, check engine lights come on, car goes into limp mode or just refuses to run. Its a failure mode that leaves you stranded by the road. Its different if your car is for local trips to work and the shops, but I am buying the car for long distance travel. I dont want that sort of failure hanging over me.
Re: List of small hatchback cars
With a 15 second 0-100km, you're dead meat while trying to merge onto highway traffic that travels at 105km+.
Most of our highway onramps where i live have a ~3% grade. Add the weight of a passenger and you are really hosed.
Not looking to light up any tires.. just survive American roads.
The lightest car they sell here is a mitsubishi mirage, at ~2080lbs with a 5 speed gearbox. It has 78 horsepower and a 1.2L engine.
0-100km in 12 seconds, maybe less. Extremely dangerous.
Yaris IA does this sprint in about 8-9 seconds, which is just a hair quicker than necessary.
Of course, your choice is relative to your area. Just explaining what kind of scenarios i have to deal with.
Most of our highway onramps where i live have a ~3% grade. Add the weight of a passenger and you are really hosed.
Not looking to light up any tires.. just survive American roads.
The lightest car they sell here is a mitsubishi mirage, at ~2080lbs with a 5 speed gearbox. It has 78 horsepower and a 1.2L engine.
0-100km in 12 seconds, maybe less. Extremely dangerous.
Yaris IA does this sprint in about 8-9 seconds, which is just a hair quicker than necessary.
Of course, your choice is relative to your area. Just explaining what kind of scenarios i have to deal with.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.
My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.