List of small hatchback cars

[neptronix]

Occasionally Toyota puts out some real garbage. You cannot trust them to do everything right.

Toyota Matrix 1.8L manual transmissions fail around 75k miles.
The 2.2L engine was famous for engine sludge.
The 2.4L engine that came after that had engine sludge issues and oil burning / consumption issues for over a decade, which got worse near the end of their run in 2012. Over a million cars are affected and Toyota is being shrimpy about fixing them.
First and second generation rav4's had exploding manual transmissions - 5th gear goes out after 150k.
The high revving 1.8L motors in the 2000's would start consuming oil like mad and died very young.
Mid to late 2000's 4runners had frames that would disintegrate in less than a decade. ( Wife's mom had one of those and Toyota did not cover it; the car is a total loss )
Scions and other Toyotas had massive paint quality issues in the 2000's - not sure if this is still going on.

Wife's rav4 with the 2.0 is a nice car but at 140,000 miles it's blowing oil out the rings already and started doing that at 90k. Transmission still going strong because we're nice to it.

[tomjasz]

New Rav is sweet IMO. Picked it up yesterday. Thrilled by the tow capacity and tongue weight. The upihtposition make getting in and out easily no more gunning an groaning and depending on my cane to rise up and out. Mileage sucks,but good visual positioning unlike the Prius. Everything high mileage was jun or loading 150lbs of bike on the rear.

Congratulations on the Fit. Rather liked it even if a it noisy. I sill miss the spartan interiorsofte AC VW Beatle. THAT was the easiest engine except in Saab 95 & 96 (1/2 Ford 289).

[Frank]

I'm a little surprised nobody mentioned one of the Prius variants. Typically these are very reliable.

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[edcastrovalley]

I'm a little surprised nobody mentioned one of the Prius variants. Typically these are very reliable.

We have two 2007 Prius's (Prii) and you're right, they've been very reliable except for maybe the oil rings. These cars start burning oil sometime after 100K miles. The trick is to switch them from 5w30 to 10w30 oil which cuts oil consumption by quite a bit though not completely. I figured this out a little too late for my blue prius which I've owned since new and the car now kicks out an error code saying the catalytic converter is only 95% efficient.

95% sounds really good to me however, it won't pass smog next March of 2019.
Our green base model prius that our adult boys drive is doing great inspite of their Nascar style driving. I would guess this car to go first but go figure. Both cars have just over 150k on them.

[Lebowski]

A prius is much bigger than a small hatchbar car and roughly 3 times the price...

[billvon]

A prius is much bigger than a small hatchbar car and roughly 3 times the price...

The Prius-C is pretty dang small. And with so many of them out there, you can get a used one for very cheap.

[dogman dan]

Let us know how you like the fit. I was real interested in them for awhile, to replace the wifes focus. Ended up replacing that focus that burned with a v8 half ton van. Two saint bernards fit in it much better than a fit, which would not I think, fit somebody that is 6 foot 4. Two buck gas definitely influenced that decision, and the under 3 grand price for it. Figured that would be a temporary purchase at the time, but now its needed to tow a gigantic trailer to the mountains in summer. Retirement is sweet!

But let us know how you fit in the fit. Buying one is still a possibility one of these days, but in the stick so it can be RV towed.

[marty]

Drove 400 miles to buy the Blue Fit. She/He now needs a name. Old Suzuki is named Suzy. First we rented a Ford Focus Hatchback with all the bells and whistles. Dash board was easy to figure out. Not sure where the radio signal came from? Sirius? Grateful Dead is good for listening on long trips. Focus had a flat tire. Before leaving Buffalo put air in it. Car got half way across Ohio before tire went flat again. Stopped at a car rental place and got a Toyota Yaris Hatchback with no cruse control, no key-less entry.

Marty's Car review. All cars had 4 doors plus the hatch back.

Focus - Hard to see where I going. Like the dash board. Radio sounds good. Seat made my back hurt. Power seat. Yes tried adjusting the lower back support control.

Toyota Yaris Hatchback - Small.

Honda Fit - Seats fold all different ways. Was hoping it would fold flat like a bed. It almost does. Pillows would help. See picture.

Sucks when ya got to cut the roof off to take a picture. Of the 3 cars. Fit has best windows to see where I am going. I am 5' 6" so I fit in any car. Radio reception in the Fit was the best of any car I have ever owned. Got to learn about music from Bluetooth or USB. Green and blue lights near the speedometer. Think they tell me how much gas I am using? Wonder if I could make light turn red if I stomp on gas pedal?

For me seeing where I am going is really important. Fit is the best. Blue paint looks good. Not seeing any excessive orange peal. Haven't given paint a close look in different lighting.

Got a long list of modifications to do on the fit. Please stay tuned.

[dogman dan]

how a car fits IS important. the wifes focus cars always made my back hurt, both of em. I'm taller, so I saw out of them fine. But the foresters have been the car that fits me best. No back hurts with those seats.


Van has the best seats though, long as gas stays below three bucks its now the choice for a long drive. Its old, but has the limo conversion so the seats are great.

[marty]

car now kicks out an error code saying the catalytic converter is only 95% efficient.

95% sounds really good to me however, it won't pass smog next March of 2019.

Buy a little electronic gadget with flashing LED lights that fools the computer to think catalytic converter is OK. If I remember correctly? Company that made it was called O2sim.com as in oxygen sensor simulator. Web site is gone?

Service manual will tell ya which wires to splice into at the computer.

[marty]

First project was going to be rustproofing. Will start a different topic on that. First we got a problem. Think that rustproofing is best sprayed on a clean car. Bad planing here. The day that I drove the car home, we had our first winter storm of the season. Freezing rain and slush. Plow drivers must have been excited because they put a few thousand tons of salt on the roads. Car now has 400 miles of salt water spray all over it. Plan is to jack it up outside and take the wheels off. Hose off with water. Let it dry for a few days inside with fan in heated shop. As a service to all Fit/Jazz mechanics on planet earth, here are Lift and Support Points.

Lift and Support Points 439.pdf

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[tomjasz]

how a car fits IS important. the wifes focus cars always made my back hurt, both of em. I'm taller, so I saw out of them fine. But the foresters have been the car that fits me best. No back hurts with those seats.


Van has the best seats though, long as gas stays below three bucks its now the choice for a long drive. Its old, but has the limo conversion so the seats are great.

Agreed, which ended our high mileage car days. I have to seriously struggle to get up off the floor in some. The new Camry is even lower than our 2005. The Prius C was a noise box as were several other similar cars. Sitting up van or truck style really makes for a more pleasant drive. I can see why you'd go Van. We have similar disabilities.

[TrikeBirder]

While actually classified as a medium size car, most folks consider most models of the Toyota Prius hatchback, a small car. I believe the Prius C is classified as a small car, and like most Prius' it is a hatchback.

[billvon]

While actually classified as a medium size car, most folks consider most models of the Toyota Prius hatchback, a small car. I believe the Prius C is classified as a small car, and like most Prius' it is a hatchback.

Earlier versions of the Prius were classified as small cars. They grew a bit with each generation, until they hit the "medium" category.

[dogman dan]

How is the noise level of the fit? That was the other turn off for me, on the focus.

The ford focus was not bad noisy, like our tiny ford festiva was. But after I drove the Subaru a lot I got used to pretty darn quiet ride. Then we'd sometimes take a longer trip in the focus just for the better mileage. Then I'd be hating the noise of it by the end of the first hour.


Now the priority has changed, house payment gone, the priority is the seat, the seat, and the seat. Both our old van and the Subaru have a comfy enough seat. But will take the van when the drive is over 4 hours for sure.

[tomjasz]

How is the noise level of the fit? That was the other turn off for me, on the focus.

The ford focus was not bad noisy, like our tiny ford festiva was. But after I drove the Subaru a lot I got used to pretty darn quiet ride. Then we'd sometimes take a longer trip in the focus just for the better mileage. Then I'd be hating the noise of it by the end of the first hour.


Now the priority has changed, house payment gone, the priority is the seat, the seat, and the seat. Both our old van and the Subaru have a comfy enough seat. But will take the van when the drive is over 4 hours for sure.

I found the fit to be frustratingly noisy. With or without hearing aids. Unlike the old Bugs, the entire class are rattle boxes.

[dogman dan]

I thought that might be the case with the fit. At least a bit noisy to drive freeway speed. ( out here, that's 85 mph btw, 75 speed limit) Not a problem if its a drive half an hour to work car, but on a 700 mile drive, quieter gets nice. With the focus vs the subaru, it was noise coming from the front tires through the floor. And a few rattles in the dash.

As cars have gotten more aero, less likely to have wind noise. Nothing beat the 80's 90's ford trucks for that. Always a big roar from the mirrors, and at least one window or door crack whistling away.

[tomjasz]

I thought that might be the case with the fit. At least a bit noisy to drive freeway speed. ( out here, that's 85 mph btw, 75-speed limit) Not a problem if its a drive half an hour to work car, but on a 700-mile drive, quieter gets nice. With the focus vs the Subaru, it was noise coming from the front tires through the floor. And a few rattles in the dash.

As cars have gotten more aero, less likely to have wind noise. Nothing beat the 80's 90's ford trucks for that. Always a big roar from the mirrors, and at least one window or door crack whistling away.

I wasn't thrilled by my lovelies choice of a RAV4, but it's quieter than a Camry. Surprised the heck out of me. Being a hearing aid wearer the devices amplify road noise. Every KIA made my head want to explode with tinny sounds. The Toyota Prius C was the crappiest of all! I really WANTED to like and live with a small car, but I'm too old to put up with that!

[neptronix]

Yaris IA is very quiet. Quieter than my Maxima actually, and that thing had tons of sound deadening.
Aerodynamics and tall tire shape probably have a lot to do with it.

I have very good hearing, and a noisy car is not for me. Owned a Honda Civic from the 90's and couldn't stand it. Looked at every generation of Civic and Corolla and even the Toyota made Yaris.. couldn't stand them.

You shouldn't have to be penalized for driving a fuel efficient car. Just 50lbs of sound deadening would help... not the full 100+ some luxury cars have.

Most hatchbacks are noisy by nature due to their structure. Those are probably out if you have sensitive hearing.

[The fingers]

Are we talking rattles, engine noise, wind noise, or road (tire) noise?
I think the worst in past vehicles I have owned was the wind noise in our soft-top Jeep Wrangler. After an hour at highway speeds you became painfully aware that you were going deaf. As bad or worse as the rattling doors of a Utilimaster step van I drove back from Barstow once, I literally could not hear for an hour afterward.
Noise from studded snow tires can be annoying, as can 4WD truck tires. Smaller vehicles revving high gets old on long trips. Maybe that's why Rolls Royce doesn't have a compact car. I've never driven one, but verify as a passenger that you can hear only the dashboard clock when cruising along.

[neptronix]

Newer small cars with direct injection engines are very quiet.
You'd be surprised.

I test drove them all. DI motors are pretty nice. ( except for that whole, cleaning the intake valves part out every ~50,000 miles )

[Lebowski]

Newer small cars with direct injection engines are very quiet.
You'd be surprised.

I test drove them all. DI motors are pretty nice. ( except for that whole, cleaning the intake valves part out every ~50,000 miles )

Yep, and this business with the valves, for me at least, is why I would not buy one. It is a problem that slowly build up until one day cilinders stop firing. But long before then carbon build up will increase fuel use and cause engine power to drop. Its just inherently flawed.

Im now lookin at the Citroen C3 as the main contender, with the 68 or 82 hp port injected engine. 3 cilinders, 1.2 L of raw French... well...

For me it is the comfy and well adjustable interior that does it.

520x293_Conso_C3_Blur.73.jpg.228874.2.73.jpg (27.67 KiB) Viewed 375 times

[dogman dan]

Being better aero, cars from the last 10 years have pretty much fixed wind noise. But both focuses we had, you could really hear the tires. Worse of course, on any older, or new chip seal road. Just poor sound insulation around the wheel wells I think, combined with the closer position of the tire on a modern front wheel drive car. It was not real bad, just got old after drives over an hour long. You could have a conversation, or listen to radio, but not both. A quiet car needs less volume to hear the radio. Even for a deaf old carpenter like me.


Rattles can be a problem with any car, but the focus had them pretty bad, all in the dash area. The 05 had it much worse than the 00. I hope they improved the dash assembly, but the 05 was the first year of the new version, so I suspect they suck well into 2010 or so.

Three subarus from 80's through 08 have all been very quiet cars, with zero rattles except for cargo. Like your shovel needs re positioning. And low wheel noise, even with a more winter tread type tire. Very low wind noise, except for when skis or boats are on the roof. But even driving around with kyack J racks on the roof at 85 mph, not that loud through the well insulated car body. They foam the subarus, so they do well in hot and cold too.

[neptronix]

Yep, and this business with the valves, for me at least, is why I would not buy one. It is a problem that slowly build up until one day cilinders stop firing. But long before then carbon build up will increase fuel use and cause engine power to drop. Its just inherently flawed.

Im now lookin at the Citroen C3 as the main contender, with the 68 or 82 hp port injected engine. 3 cilinders, 1.2 L of raw French... well...

I was about to pull the trigger on a brand spankin' new Honda insight actually.
I did a quick napkin math calculation..
Over a 15 year lifespan, the hybrid:
+ Costs $8300 more to purchase.
+ Will require the replacement of a battery and/or other electric component, most likely.. $3000.
- $2000 in fuel, because fuel is so cheap now and will probably remain so.

Total premium over the DI econobox is $9300.

Versus the DI car..
+ 4x intake cleanings at an estimated $1000 each = $4000.
+ Eventual injector replacement.. $125 each plus $500 labor estimate = $1000

So over a 15 year lifetime of the car, the DI car costs me $4300 less.

Port injected means less fuel economy and less power. Not something i can live with.
Puts you back to the 1980's in regards to power to weight ratio, now that cars have scads of extra metal so that they can collide with monster suvs and trucks.. :/

Dunno about your cars on that side of the pond, but ours are super heavy these days, so you have to decide whether you want a 11 second 0-60 ( port injected ) or a 8-9 second 0-60 ( direct injected ).

[Lebowski]

The typical car here like the Citroen C3 weighs 1000 kg, so 2200 pounds. The C3 has a claimed 0-100kmh of around 15 seconds for the 82hp version. Which is more than fast enough for me, I care about being able to reach 100 , not how long it takes to get there. Top speed is 160 kmh (100mph), so no problem with the typical 120 kmh speed limit.

But the real gem here is the cruise control (which comes as standard). Ok so it takes a while to reach 100, but once you get there you set the cruise control. From that point on you're not going to notice anymore that the car is weak, as you dont notice how much gas the cruise control gives. It will just hobble along doing 100, just as a 200hp car would. My favorite speed where I sit at by the way, independent of 100 or 120 speed limit, is 95... my 73 year old mam finds that I drive slow, and tells me she notices the much better gas mileage for when I drive...

To put things in perspective, i used to have a 12 sec 0-100 car which I found very fast, never gave it full throttle as I found the accelleration too much. Also I have done a 1600km trip on a 8hp scooter...

About DI, think about how it fails. Reading online, the engine will start to misfire, check engine lights come on, car goes into limp mode or just refuses to run. Its a failure mode that leaves you stranded by the road. Its different if your car is for local trips to work and the shops, but I am buying the car for long distance travel. I dont want that sort of failure hanging over me.