Paragliding Payout Winch

I'm also looking at creating a simple payout winch for HG and PG for my club in Western Australia. I've been thinking of using an electric motorbike wheel motor and a controller that supports regen with proportional braking.

My plan is to make something self contained with just enough battery to wind the line back in and operate itself. It should be possible to use the energy generated during the tow to charge the battery and put any excess into a dump load.

I know it should be possible to estimate the tow force from the power generated, however as I am planning to use a narrow drum so that the line will arrange itself when winding back in it would require a way of factoring in the diameter based on the amount of rope currently on the drum.


I think this should be pretty straightforward as the drum should be able to count it's rotations to track this. The rotations needs to be counted anyway so that when winding the rope back in at high speed it knows when to stop.



I'm interested in electronics, but not an expert by any means.

I am a software developer and have written software for embedded devices before.


I think it should be possible to create a simple device with a built in web server that could be connected to with any wireless device for configuration and monitoring (rope length, drum size etc).

I would make it fit onto a car tow hitch.


Then a wireless controller would just need:

A start/stop button that would switch between free wheeling and tension control.

A dial for setting the tension weight to be maintained. (as a weight in Kilos)

A rewind button.


I know there are already a couple of e-winch devices out there, but they are designed primarily to be used as static winches that are remote controlled by the pilot. As a result they are expensive ($8000) and also have huge battery packs and motors. I calculate a 2kw motor would be enough for regen braking and rewind.

Is anyone else working on a similar project or interested in helping me with this one?

I know Bazaki built something you may be able to use info from

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=winch&terms=all&author=bazaki&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

and others have made threads about winches, but I don't know that any are applicable; you'd have to check
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=winch&terms=all&author=+&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

hangflyer said:

I'm also looking at creating a simple payout winch for HG and PG for my club in Western Australia. I've been thinking of using an electric motorbike wheel motor and a controller that supports regen with proportional braking.
I am planning to use a narrow drum so that the line will arrange itself when winding back in it would require a way of factoring in the diameter based on the amount of rope currently on the drum.

Click to expand...

hangflier,

Simple, right? I want to say first, I'm a mountain Hang Glider pilot, and I do not tow. Still, I have closely watched some flat-land towing of HGs . . .

I'd suggest using an electric level-winder to stow the tow-rope on the drum during retrieve. A single-arm windshield wiper (e.g. from a single-wiper Mercedes-Benz) can run whenever the retrieve motor runs, to level-wind the rope onto the drum. Mechanical level-winders cost a fortune.

The more common retrieve motor on a DIY rig is the ancient long-shaft Ford starter motor.

Everything then runs on 12V. These are breaker-yard (automobile recycler yard) options. Using other Voltages is certainly possible, but you would probably be beyond the advice of many other tow operators, if so.

You can change the tow-rope color near the end, maybe for the last few dozen meters or so, and stop the reel when you see the rope changes color. Put a ferrous metal crimp there on the tow-line, and you can stop the retrieve when the crimp is metal/magnetically detected by the reel. Counting the drum rotations will require counting how much line goes out, as well as how much you reel in. The proposed counter must be correct at any drum speed, even when turning very slowly.

It sounds like you want to dispense with the tow observer, during a launch. I strongly believe that choice would be a recipe for disaster. The tow observer also needs a reliable guillotine on the towline, set to chop the towline instantly at any time, when it becomes necessary.

Best wishes.

Hi Thanks for the replies.

I have to clarify, I am only building a payout winch. So the motor will not be pulling the weight of the pilot and aircraft up into the air.

The winch will be attached to a vehicle that will drive forwards to provide the towing force, the winch just needs to payout the line to keep the tension below the max tension that has been set.

This means the only energy needed for the winch is for electrically braking the drum, and whilst this could take as much battery power as to drive the drum if you are using power to oppose it, my understanding is that Regen would use it's own power to generate the braking force and still end up with a net charge into the battery.

I've been towing hang gliders for 30 years, I learnt behind a static winch with a steel cable in the UK in the late 1980s.

I have seen dozens of different winch designs and town procedures and the basic design for this winch combines the best of all options.

Firstly having a narrow drum means you don't need any kind of fancy hardware to be able to lay the rope out on the drum, simplicity is the key to reliability and low cost.

It also means you have to use a thin line and you can buy a very light and cheap line with a breaking force of about 250kg with a diameter of about 3mm. This has the advantage of not being stretchy like some thicker ropes, it also serves as a secondary weak link.
Mostly it is compact and cheap and so replaced as required rather than repaired.

The tow procedure is simple and similar for HG and PG.

The driver sets 80% the weight of the glider and pilot (1G) as the maximum tow force on the control inside the tow vehicle and the physical weak link is always set to 1G.

When the pilot calls ready the driver pushes the ON/OFF button.

When the pilot calls GOGOGO the driver starts driving.

The winch will only pay out, so the driver needs to drive faster than the speed required to maintain the tow tension.

The winch will regulate the tension so the driver can drive as fast as he likes, however to optimise the distance used the winch will be set to provide feedback to warn the driver to speed up when the drum slows down to a near stop and to slow down when the drum speed is excessive.

After the pilot has released the driver can hit the rewind button and the line will come back in at high speed stopping just before the drogue chute.

I currently tow on a system exactly like this, except that is uses a hydraulic brake and a small electric rewind motor and it works great.

I think this should be a portable sub 20kg setup as all electric.

It requires very little skill in the driver.

I have an electric guillotine that I can add so there is an option to cut the line as well.

The software and in car controller I can make no problem, I'm really asking if anyone knows if it is practical to use Regen for up to 5 minutes to hold a 100kg force and what equipment would let me do this.

I'm thinking of using an electric Motorbike hub motor , I would also like a programmable ESC to go with it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3000W-10inch-Hub-Motor-with-Controller-Throttle-Disc-brake-system-electric-scooter-kits/32656539792.html

Does anyone have any suggestions for either item?

Hi

Im building something similar, did it work out in the end?

Edvin