400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.

400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:51 pm

Image

http://eco-motorcycles.co.uk/vigo

So the specs seem hard to believe seeing as the zero s can do 80 miles with a 13kwh battery andthis has 21kwh?

He says he tested the motor on another bike. Oh one of those random bikes that can fit a nissan leaf battery under the saddle ha ha.

400mile range at 70mph, 21kwh battery and 160kg

The zero s is 185kgs. Cant believe any of this especially the predicted £6000 price.

What do you think?
Last edited by bionicdan on Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:23 pm, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby Warren » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:04 pm

Assuming he uses 90% DoD, that is 47.25 Wh/mile. Maybe at 20 mph, with bicycle tires.
My mid-drive recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23259
My DD cargo recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78828
Warren
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:35 am

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:21 pm

Warren wrote:Assuming he uses 90% DoD, that is 47.25 Wh/mile. Maybe at 20 mph, with bicycle tires.


While scooting with your feet ha ha sexy look
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby jonescg » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:29 pm

Yeah some epic BS figures there. The longest range e moto today would be Mugen's Shinden Go, with about 21 kWh onboard and lots of carbon fiber. It weighs 250 kg. It can maintain an average speed of 175 km/h up and arounf the IoM on one charge. If this bike is even half as good, we can expect to see it on the Mountain course in June.
User avatar
jonescg
1 GW
1 GW
 
Posts: 3223
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:35 pm

jonescg wrote:Yeah some epic BS figures there. The longest range e moto today would be Mugen's Shinden Go, with about 21 kWh onboard and lots of carbon fiber. It weighs 250 kg. It can maintain an average speed of 175 km/h up and arounf the IoM on one charge. If this bike is even half as good, we can expect to see it on the Mountain course in June.


Pah this one does 180 MPH! Maybe thats how it does 400miles as it does it so much quicker using the battery for less time doh. Maybe we all have efficiency logic backwards.
Last edited by bionicdan on Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:39 am

He says it uses a new battery tech that isn't lithium that holds 4 times the capacity. But wont say which one lol. Hope no one falls for it, must be a scam.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby Warren » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:01 am

His range claims are totally ridiculous for 21 kWh at 70 mph. He says it is 21 kWh...that is the capacity.

"holds four times the capacity"

It would have to have that magic battery to fit 21 kWh into a 350 pound bike. Such a battery would revolutionize the auto industry overnight. Why would he be fooling around with a limited production motorcycle?
My mid-drive recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23259
My DD cargo recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78828
Warren
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:35 am

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Warren wrote:His range claims are totally ridiculous for 21 kWh at 70 mph. He says it is 21 kWh...that is the capacity.

"holds four times the capacity"

It would have to have that magic battery to fit 21 kWh into a 350 pound bike. Such a battery would revolutionize the auto industry overnight. Why would he be fooling around with a limited production motorcycle?



So hes suggesting he has a 21kwh battery in the space a 5kwh battery used to fit and its 2.5 times more efficient than a Zero S. No phone number no address and even saw it for sale on gumtree for three hours but it got taken down. Ill see if I can report it.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby Fred27 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:42 pm

That site used to list Zero motorcycles for sale but I'm not sure they were ever a dealer. Sounds very fishy. Almost tempted to sign up for a free test ride, but I suspect that would never happen.
Fred27
100 µW
100 µW
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby amberwolf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:57 am

Warren wrote:Assuming he uses 90% DoD, that is 47.25 Wh/mile. Maybe at 20 mph, with bicycle tires.

That's lower than my SB Cruiser trike's usage *at* 20MPH. :lol:

The pic that's posted in the OP of this thread is a very pretty CGI, though. ;)
User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 22755
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:35 am

amberwolf wrote:
Warren wrote:Assuming he uses 90% DoD, that is 47.25 Wh/mile. Maybe at 20 mph, with bicycle tires.

That's lower than my SB Cruiser trike's usage *at* 20MPH. :lol:

The pic that's posted in the OP of this thread is a very pretty CGI, though. ;)



The video must have cost a few quid too
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby Warren » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:16 am

"That's lower than my SB Cruiser trike's usage *at* 20MPH."

Kraig Schultz's son rides an electrified, old 125 Honda to school.

http://www.evalbum.com/1170

On a flat, level, windless test, with a dustbin fairing, it pulled about 1750 watts at about 40 mph, or 43.75 Wh/mile.

http://www.schultzengineering.us/tucked.jpg

http://www.schultzengineering.us/d-11-vs-125.jpg
My mid-drive recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23259
My DD cargo recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78828
Warren
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:35 am

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby liveforphysics » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:55 pm

It seems to just say 400miles maximum range now and skips saying at 70mph (unless I missed it).

With tires pumped up rock hard, and holding low city riding average pace around something like 15-20mph, my Zero DSR has been tested capable of over 265miles on a charge.

Not saying these guys aren't full of shit with the capacity claim and listed price and top speed etc, but if you ride slow enough to minimize aero drag to approach nothing, you can travel pretty extreme distances with an emoto. It would be much faster if you wanted to get somewhere to ride fast and recharge fast though, it takes 20hrs of riding averaging 20mph to cover 400miles.
Last edited by liveforphysics on Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Ebikes.ca

My bicycle completes the standing quarter mile in 11.502seconds at 110.56mph.

Giving my time to the electric revolution is done with pleasure. It is no longer fashionable to spit carcinogenic combustion by products in peoples faces as a part of sating daily transport.

Every post is in honor to the free idea exchange that Justin le preserved to grow with an amazingly high quality content in what is the living bleeding edge of LEV development.
User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 14116
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby Warren » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:11 pm

Yup. I did 12,775 miles in 2016. And 8,860 miles of that was at an overall 22 mph average, 18.55 Wh/mile average, on tires pumped to 65-75 psi.

http://www.evalbum.com/5173

I have ridden to every place within 65 miles of here, multiple times. That is good enough for me. Thanks to globalization/homogenization, even 4000 miles from here looks just like here.
Last edited by Warren on Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
My mid-drive recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23259
My DD cargo recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78828
Warren
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:35 am

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby liveforphysics » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:22 pm

Warren wrote:Yup. I did 12,775 miles in 2016. And 8,860 miles of that was at an overall 22 mph average, 18.55 Wh/mile average, on tires pumped to 65-75 psi.

http://www.evalbum.com/5173

I have ridden to every place within 65 miles of here, multiple times. That is good enough for me. Thanks to globalization/homogenization, even 4000 miles from here looks just like here.


Nice bike Warren!
Ebikes.ca

My bicycle completes the standing quarter mile in 11.502seconds at 110.56mph.

Giving my time to the electric revolution is done with pleasure. It is no longer fashionable to spit carcinogenic combustion by products in peoples faces as a part of sating daily transport.

Every post is in honor to the free idea exchange that Justin le preserved to grow with an amazingly high quality content in what is the living bleeding edge of LEV development.
User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 14116
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby Warren » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:40 pm

Thanks. That means a lot, coming from somebody I respect more than anybody else in the EV pantheon.
My mid-drive recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23259
My DD cargo recumbent
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78828
Warren
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:35 am

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby liveforphysics » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:28 pm

Warren wrote:Thanks. That means a lot, coming from somebody I respect more than anybody else in the EV pantheon.


You're too kind sir!

I learned a ton from this amazing group of folks, and am happy to give back as I'm able.
Ebikes.ca

My bicycle completes the standing quarter mile in 11.502seconds at 110.56mph.

Giving my time to the electric revolution is done with pleasure. It is no longer fashionable to spit carcinogenic combustion by products in peoples faces as a part of sating daily transport.

Every post is in honor to the free idea exchange that Justin le preserved to grow with an amazingly high quality content in what is the living bleeding edge of LEV development.
User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 14116
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:06 pm

liveforphysics wrote:It seems to just say 400miles maximum range now and skips saying at 70mph (unless I missed it).

With tires pumped up rock hard, and holding low city riding average pace around something like 15-20mph, my Zero DSR has been tested capable of over 265miles on a charge.

Not saying these guys aren't full of shit with the capacity claim and listed price and top speed etc, but if you ride slow enough to minimize aero drag to approach nothing, you can travel pretty extreme distances with an emoto. It would be much faster if you wanted to get somewhere to ride fast and recharge fast though, it takes 20hrs of riding averaging 20mph to cover 400miles.



Sorry might not have mentioned it was a facebook post on thier page. Says its a british company but seems to be talking chinglish to me.

Have you tested 400 miles and at what speed was that?

Like · Reply · 4 January at 20:55
Electric Motorcycle VIGO
Electric Motorcycle VIGO Daniel Perrins We've tested the motor-wheel on another bike and range was confirmed with cruising speed of 67-73 mph. This is actually not a limit.
Like · Reply · 4 January at 21:59
Daniel Perrins
Daniel Perrins So the zero s does 80miles on a 13kwh battery. To get 400 miles from a 21kwh battery yours will need to be around 2.5 times more efficient.
Like · Reply · 5 January at 20:43 · Edited
Electric Motorcycle VIGO
Electric Motorcycle VIGO Daniel Perrins We use a different battery (not lithium-ion one) with 4 times higher density and more efficient motor. This is why we're able to reach this range.
Like · Reply · 5 January at 00:04
Daniel Perrins
Daniel Perrins Whats The chemistry/battery called?
Like · Reply · 5 January at 00:10 · Edited
Electric Motorcycle VIGO
Electric Motorcycle VIGO Daniel Perrins obviously we can't disclose this information now. It will be publicly available after sales starts only. Although it's absolutely irrelevant because as we already mentioned before this range is not a limit. And we have many pleasant surprises for our customers.
Like · Reply · 5 January at 10:52
Last edited by bionicdan on Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby liveforphysics » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:08 pm

bionicdan wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:It seems to just say 400miles maximum range now and skips saying at 70mph (unless I missed it).

With tires pumped up rock hard, and holding low city riding average pace around something like 15-20mph, my Zero DSR has been tested capable of over 265miles on a charge.

Not saying these guys aren't full of shit with the capacity claim and listed price and top speed etc, but if you ride slow enough to minimize aero drag to approach nothing, you can travel pretty extreme distances with an emoto. It would be much faster if you wanted to get somewhere to ride fast and recharge fast though, it takes 20hrs of riding averaging 20mph to cover 400miles.



Sorry might not have mentioned it was a facebook post on thier page

Have you tested 400 miles and at what speed was that?

Like · Reply · 4 January at 20:55
Electric Motorcycle VIGO
Electric Motorcycle VIGO Daniel Perrins We've tested the motor-wheel on another bike and range was confirmed with cruising speed of 67-73 mph. This is actually not a limit.
Like · Reply · 4 January at 21:59
Daniel Perrins
Daniel Perrins So the zero s does 80miles on a 13kwh battery. To get 400 miles from a 21kwh battery yours will need to be around 2.5 times more efficient.
Like · Reply · 5 January at 20:43 · Edited
Electric Motorcycle VIGO
Electric Motorcycle VIGO Daniel Perrins We use a different battery (not lithium-ion one) with 4 times higher density and more efficient motor. This is why we're able to reach this range.
Like · Reply · 5 January at 00:04
Daniel Perrins
Daniel Perrins Whats The chemistry/battery called?
Like · Reply · 5 January at 00:10 · Edited
Electric Motorcycle VIGO
Electric Motorcycle VIGO Daniel Perrins obviously we can't disclose this information now. It will be publicly available after sales starts only. Although it's absolutely irrelevant because as we already mentioned before this range is not a limit. And we have many pleasant surprises for our customers.
Like · Reply · 5 January at 10:52




After reading that, these guys are idiot clowns full of shit.
Ebikes.ca

My bicycle completes the standing quarter mile in 11.502seconds at 110.56mph.

Giving my time to the electric revolution is done with pleasure. It is no longer fashionable to spit carcinogenic combustion by products in peoples faces as a part of sating daily transport.

Every post is in honor to the free idea exchange that Justin le preserved to grow with an amazingly high quality content in what is the living bleeding edge of LEV development.
User avatar
liveforphysics
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 14116
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:48 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby kudos » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:52 am

I like the design a lot but like everyone else think the range figures are hilarious....but then again every single electric bike manufacturer does the same thing.

You regularly see 200W with 9Ah 36V bikes claim range of 80miles+

To be fair on the Vigo https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vigo-electric-motorcycle-of-the-future#/ page they say:

The following range has been compiled using 80% city, 20% highway environment with an average speed of 45 mph. Factors like: weight load, speed, adaptive braking ratio might gradually reduce the overall range of the vehicle. Values have been calculated taking into consideration specifications of used components.

If they do manage to get this bike into production I think you can half the quoted range at best....

Kudos
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V : 31mph
Build 1B Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Mac 10T 30A 49V : 27mph
Build 1C Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 82V :
Build 2 Mountain Cycle Fury FS : Mac 8T 40A 57V : Scrapped
Build 3 GT LTS FS : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 4 EEB : Mac 8T 40A - In Progress
kudos
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:56 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands, UK

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby kudos » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:42 am

https://www.storm-eindhoven.com/STORM_Wave

Interesting follow on to this, the Dutch team who just rode around the world in 80 days had 28.5kWh on board and they say they get approx 380 km / 236 miles per charge.....

Kudos
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V : 31mph
Build 1B Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Mac 10T 30A 49V : 27mph
Build 1C Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 82V :
Build 2 Mountain Cycle Fury FS : Mac 8T 40A 57V : Scrapped
Build 3 GT LTS FS : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 4 EEB : Mac 8T 40A - In Progress
kudos
10 kW
10 kW
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:56 pm
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands, UK

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby amberwolf » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:26 pm

about 120wh/mile sounds reasonable enough if they're aero enough and efficient enough; my inefficient heavy un-aero SB Cruiser trike takes about half that to maintain an average of 15mph with 20mph cruise, either on short trips with lots of stops/starts, or with long trips and wind with fewer stops/starts.

But the "vigo" guys are claiming wh/mile / efficiencies in the slow lightweight ebike range, which you just won't get with a big heavy motorcycle at traffic or highway speeds.
User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 22755
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby fechter » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:34 pm

Maybe they mean the motor lasts 400 miles, then falls apart...
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"
User avatar
fechter
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby Ianhill » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:49 pm

Even with the jet stream behind you down hill all the way it won't do 70mph and 400 miles, looks nice but when tech talk like that gets out your doomed.
My 45kg scooter gets around 35 wh at 25 to 30mph in very settled conditions when the wind picks up I get more like 55 wh and if I hold it flat out between 45 and 50mph I get around 100wh average in settled if it gets breezy I can consume 200wh climbing a large mountain road just over a mile at pace, so it needs to be in a vacuum or some new voodoo motor and controller tech to perform stated specs with 21kw.
Last edited by Ianhill on Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
Razor E3000 brushed 12s lipo 3kw viewtopic.php?f=35&t=78948
Stand up faggio EV 3.7kw 16s viewtopic.php?f=35&t=82374&start=75
A2b metro gti viewtopic.php?f=6&t=87836
User avatar
Ianhill
100 kW
100 kW
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:55 pm
Location: Wales UK

Re: 400mile range Emotorcyle at 70mph 21kwh battery?

Postby bionicdan » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:58 am

At some point a guy pointed out a very easy way to debunk the range claim in a kind of layman's way. He said his leaf does 90 miles with the same battery and assumed a bike would use less power.

I pointed out a leaf is probably more aerodynamic than an upright motorbike. Then all the comments got deleted ha ha. They don't like comments the wider audience will understand easily lol
GEARS? Where we're going we dont need gears!

Due to metal plates and a body full of nuts and bolts I am as bionic as my bike lol.
User avatar
bionicdan
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:07 pm
Location: uk

Next

Return to E-Scooter and Motorcycle General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests