E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 06 2018 2:24pm

Hello Aussie Ruder,

Yes. I disconnected the blue connector kill switch and the same thing happens the bike goes through start up sequence beeps and flashes 5 times and then continues to Flash foreverImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 06 2018 2:25pm

My suspicion is the overheat sensor is shorted but I have no idea where it is if it's not in the hub motor I'm assuming it's in the controller some place?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


AussieRider   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: Jul 30 2010 9:03pm
Location: Seaford, Australia

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by AussieRider » Nov 07 2018 5:13am

G'day mate.
Just thought of something & feel dumb for not remembering it sooner. Most motorbikes have a switch on the side stand with a kill switch type function. My 168 & neither of my two 4000e have them but the Aussie model may be different to the US models.

AussieRider.
Evolving E-bike
Retro style mid drive beach cruiser
Mid drive chopper
EVT 168 scooter

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13839
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by fechter » Nov 07 2018 2:43pm

AussieRider wrote:
Nov 06 2018 12:25am
There DEFINITELY is no temp sensor in the motor.
Then the temp sensor will be inside the controller. It should be possible to identify it and test it.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 07 2018 3:49pm

Good idea. I checked both the side kick stand and the center kick stand for a switch and also the underside of the seat to see if there's a seat pressure sensor . my EVT
168 has none. I'm sure it is something simple like a kill switch just frustrating trying to figure out what and where it is . There is a random 16 gauge blue wire that went in to the original battery pack that I have no idea what a does and I wondering if it is the culprit. I don't know if it needs to be powered or grounded . It is the same blue wire that went from the original lithium polymer BMS batteries to the controller. I will attach a picture.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 07 2018 3:52pm

2stroketurbo wrote:Good idea. I checked both the side kick stand and the center kick stand for a switch and also the underside of the seat to see if there's a seat pressure sensor . my EVT
168 has none. I'm sure it is something simple like a kill switch just frustrating trying to figure out what and where it is . There is a random 16 gauge blue wire that went in to the original battery pack that I have no idea what a does and I wondering if it is the culprit. I don't know if it needs to be powered or grounded . It is the same blue wire that went from the original lithium polymer BMS batteries to the controller. I will attach a picture.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Next I will open The controller Box again take some pictures and see if I can identify the overheat sensorImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 08 2018 12:29am

You are not gonna believe this. This blue wire has a purpose.Image

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 08 2018 12:31am

I thought what I got to lose I don't know if it was be grounded 12 v 24 V 48v or 54 v.


I took a chance put inline fuse and wired it directly to the battery at 54 V and the bike started I got the green light


I am so happy Image

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


AussieRider   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: Jul 30 2010 9:03pm
Location: Seaford, Australia

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by AussieRider » Nov 08 2018 5:45am

I FEEL SO 'KIN DUMB!
Now I remember reading either here on ES or on V is for voltage about trouble replacing batts on EVTs with lithium controllers because of that extra sensor wire. You even showed a blue wire hanging about in most of your pics & I still didn't twig. Sorry about that mate. All my scooter, a 168 & 2 4000e's and the spare controllers are all lead acid models & don't have that issue.
Glad to hear you got it sorted. Well done!

AussieRider
Evolving E-bike
Retro style mid drive beach cruiser
Mid drive chopper
EVT 168 scooter

2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 08 2018 8:43am

That's Ok. I'm elated to finally get it running. Literaly over the moon happy ! I took it for a ride late at night when I got it put back together with no helmet so excited it goes 30 miles an hour top speed so far. But battrry need cycle a bit. Has never discharged yet. So happy. Got it all polished. And cleaned up for my little lady to rideImage

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 08 2018 8:59am

I'm already thinking about how to modify it to go faster. Can't sleep. I keep thinking about When I had the controller open there was a throttle stop there was easily removable 1st stage. I put the BMS back into protection mode. Un did the hack.Image

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 08 2018 9:15am

Inside my open controller. See 2 stage throttle stop?.. What would happen if I re moved the 1st stop and it goes full throttle to the 2nd stop?Image

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13839
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by fechter » Nov 09 2018 12:20am

Wow, it's looking really clean for something that old. They were pretty fun to ride back in the day. Upgrading to lithium batteries would greatly extend the range.

I seem to recall the speed was limited by the speed sensor and software and there was a way to replace the clock crystal on the MCU to overclock it so it would 'think' it was going slower than it really was and raise the speed limit.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 09 2018 12:30am

Yes it certainly feels limited . E mode goes 25 mph with slow take off. P mode goes 30 MPH with faster take off . Totally feels speed limited. Any idea where I might find a controller hack to up the speed ?

2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 09 2018 12:33am

here is a video of first start up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujEAVYw3Br0&t=23s


[youtube]ujEAVYw3Br0&t=23s[/youtube]


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujEAVYw3Br0&t=23s[/youtube]

TilmanBaumann   100 W

100 W
Posts: 120
Joined: Feb 15 2018 10:32am

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by TilmanBaumann » Nov 09 2018 3:58am

Good progress. Nice.
Looks like there is still quite some knowledge out there about those things.

But as a plan-b, you can always chuck in a new motor controller. You'd probably lose some of the gauge cluster integration, but simple state of charge displays aren't really any trouble to retrofit.

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13839
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by fechter » Nov 09 2018 9:02am

You might try searching https://visforvoltage.org/.

There were several versions of controller depending on year, so some information may not apply.
If you could get a good picture of the other side of the board, especially the area around the microprocessor, we could see if there is something obvious.

Replacing the whole controller would certainly work too, and if it's a brushed motor the controller should not be super expensive. Golf cart controllers like Alltrax or Curtis are pretty easy to set up and can often be found on the used market.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

AussieRider   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: Jul 30 2010 9:03pm
Location: Seaford, Australia

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by AussieRider » Nov 10 2018 6:54am

G'day folks.
I've had a look inside 1 of my spare controllers awhile ago with the same idea & I saw 2 issues with removing that circlip;
First is that it already takes a big twist on the twist grip to get full throttle. Pulling the brass slide further would take half a turn at least. You'd want to fit a race style quick action twist grip that may not look as pretty.
Second issue is that the brass pull shaft is attached to a flat slide with a V shaped slot in the end that varies the amount of light falling on one of two photo diodes next to each other, one for power mode, one for eco. If the flat slide is pulled too far out, it could jam, of course, wide open.
You could try bending the LED opposite the photo diodes slightly so the slot uncovers it earlier.
While you've got the controller open, you'll see a blue pot near the throttle pull shaft. As far as I can work out it varies the ramp up, making throttle response a little softer or snappier.
Have fun. I sure do with mine!

AussieRider
Evolving E-bike
Retro style mid drive beach cruiser
Mid drive chopper
EVT 168 scooter

2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 10 2018 3:14pm

Aussie Rider

Have you modified your EVT 168 for more speed or performance?

Im Curious how to get more umph out of it .

I've put about 15 miles on ours so far. In P mode starting from stop power is good but 31 MPH top speed is just barely cutting it even in our 25 mph zone neighborhoods.
thanks !

AussieRider   100 W

100 W
Posts: 163
Joined: Jul 30 2010 9:03pm
Location: Seaford, Australia

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by AussieRider » Nov 12 2018 7:06am

Hi TST & other folks.
All I've tried is playing with the blue pot inside. Made a bit of difference to acceleration only. Last night I opened up a spare controller & looked at the optic throttle sensor. At wide open, the slide clears the power mode photo diodes completely so bending it out or pulling the slide further won't do anything. The controller is pretty much closed source. I searched the net for mods but found next to nothing. Even tried contacting EVT & Chroma group, the parent company hoping there might be a chip change or software access. No response from them. The only mod I found is adding an extra batt for 60V but only for 4000E because they have room under the seat for a fifth batt. I think Bravo Scooters had a kit.
A bigger diameter rear tyre will raise top speed but watch swing arm clearance. If you have any more luck than me, finding mods, please don't keep it a secret!

AussieRider
Evolving E-bike
Retro style mid drive beach cruiser
Mid drive chopper
EVT 168 scooter

2stroketurbo   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 27 2018 7:05pm
Location: Portland Or.

Re: E scoot newbie 1st post and already feels dumb

Post by 2stroketurbo » Nov 15 2018 11:04pm

I have room for an extra battery !

but we're having fun, see for yourself



[youtube]https://youtu.be/rCj4aldGnkg[/youtube]

Post Reply