Motorino XPs Speed Problem

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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karenw   100 µW

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Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 07 2019 12:45pm

I have a Motorino XPs. I've replaced the batteries and have a new battery charger. When going in one direction, the charge is great but when I turn around and go in the opposite direction, my speed cuts out. I can feel the speed go in a low setting, then it picks up speed again. Would this have anything to do with the controller? What else could be going on? Thanks everyone.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by fechter » Jan 07 2019 2:05pm

Sounds like the wire going to the speed switch is pinched or pulled and shorts out when you turn. Check the wiring, especially where it goes by the steering head.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

karenw   100 µW

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 07 2019 2:37pm

Thanks for your reply, maybe I should explain my problem more clearly. It doesn't really have anything to do with turning. I typically go about 7 km one way and it is fine but on my return trip it starts to act like I have a low battery. We've had trouble previously going over bumps when the speed governor was attached, once I removed the speed governor loop, it has no problem with bumps. My big problem is that I seem to only go about 10 km on flat ground with brand new batteries. Does removing the speed governor drain the batteries faster?

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by amberwolf » Jan 07 2019 3:50pm

If you are actually going faster than before, then yes, it takes more power to go faster.

But most likely it is a battery problem.

If charging at the destination so the battery is full on the way back results in it operating normally on the way back, then the problem is either that the charger is not charging fully, or more likely that the battery is not holding enough capacity for the trip.

If it used to work fine before the original battery got to the point it had to be changed, then that's the most likely issue--the new one just isn't good enough.

If they are SLA, those may sit on a shelf for who knows how long, with the result that they lose capacity and capability. So it could just be one or more bad batteries out of the new batch.

If you have a voltmeter, you can put it's leads across each of the batteries in turn, and measure them while riding (may require extending the wires from the meter). IF any of them go lower than others, then that one is probably either just low, or bad.

If it's low, then the toher batteries may be being overcharged, which may be damaging them (making them vent), reducing their capacity.

IF the batteries are not SLA, then you'll have to specify what they are, so we can suggest tests to determine if it's a battery issue or not.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by neptronix » Jan 07 2019 3:56pm

A watt meter, which gives you a realtime reading of the amp hours used, the voltage under load, etc would be extremely helpful.

My guess is that your new battery is not all that it's cracked up to be. Or you used a higher voltage than stock, and you're drawing more power to the higher sustain speed.

But you can only make guesses without information like that.
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karenw   100 µW

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Motorino XPs

Post by karenw » Jan 10 2019 4:56pm

I've recently replaced the batteries and bought a new charger. Replaced a couple of bad positive/negative battery wires, looked over the wires and their connections, and checked the two fuses. All looks good.

While riding to work (7 km.), everything runs well. When it's time to come home...it's a different story all together. The speed will drop down, and then speed up again pretty much the whole way home. At times, it will simply remain in the lower speed. I turn the throttle and the bike won't accelerate any faster. The bike is perfectly happy to stay in it's lower speed for the trip home. The bike let's you pick between 3 settings depending on the terrain and I still have a decent charge by the time I get home while all of this happening.

Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? Could it be the motor controller, or possibly the DC Voltage Converter? The throttle even?

Thank you everyone for your help.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 10 2019 4:59pm

Thank's everyone. :thumb:

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Re: Motorino XPs

Post by paul fortman » Jan 10 2019 5:46pm

karenw wrote:I've recently replaced the batteries and bought a new charger. Replaced a couple of bad positive/negative battery wires, looked over the wires and their connections, and checked the two fuses. All looks good.

While riding to work (7 km.), everything runs well. When it's time to come home...it's a different story all together. The speed will drop down, and then speed up again pretty much the whole way home. At times, it will simply remain in the lower speed. I turn the throttle and the bike won't accelerate any faster. The bike is perfectly happy to stay in it's lower speed for the trip home. The bike let's you pick between 3 settings depending on the terrain and I still have a decent charge by the time I get home while all of this happening.

Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? Could it be the motor controller, or possibly the DC Voltage Converter? The throttle even?

Thank you everyone for your help.
That sounds like an issue with the controller.

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Re: Motorino XPs

Post by paul fortman » Jan 10 2019 5:49pm

It's odd how it's only happening on your return journey though. It doesn't make any sense.
I think you can pick the controllers up pretty cheap. I'd personally replace it. Has the bike done alot of milage or quite old?

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by neptronix » Jan 10 2019 5:51pm

karen, i merged your duplicate thread into this one since the question is roughly the same.
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Re: Motorino XPs

Post by amberwolf » Jan 10 2019 8:25pm

karenw wrote:
Jan 10 2019 4:56pm
I've recently replaced the batteries and bought a new charger. Replaced a couple of bad positive/negative battery wires, looked over the wires and their connections, and checked the two fuses. All looks good.

While riding to work (7 km.), everything runs well. When it's time to come home...it's a different story all together. The speed will drop down, and then speed up again pretty much the whole way home. At times, it will simply remain in the lower speed. I turn the throttle and the bike won't accelerate any faster. The bike is perfectly happy to stay in it's lower speed for the trip home. The bike let's you pick between 3 settings depending on the terrain and I still have a decent charge by the time I get home while all of this happening.

Anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? Could it be the motor controller, or possibly the DC Voltage Converter? The throttle even?

Thank you everyone for your help.
Have you checked the batteries/etc during a ride as suggested?

Do you know if you are using more power than you used to? (wattmeter)

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 11 2019 11:18pm

My husband spoke to the Motorino dealer today. They said that there is a specific kind of battery meant for a Motorino Scooter. If the batteries fall below 10 Amps, we would for sure get a cutout in our speed. I didn't get the new batteries from Motorino. So now I'm thinking it is a battery issue after all. The Motorino batteries are meant to not fall below 10 Amps under sustained riding. Does anyone know of a good battery that won't fall below 10 Amps that Motorino would most likely have? It can't be lithium. I can't afford those.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by amberwolf » Jan 11 2019 11:51pm

Batteries don't control how many amps the system is pulling (except in that they sag in voltage more the higher the amp draw is, and lesser-capability batteries sag more than better ones).

It's possible they meant that you must use 10Ah batteries, or greater, but that's just a capacity, and does not directly control how much current the batteries can supply. It's also possible that the dealer does not know what he is talking about (its' common).


As for finding better batteries than what you have, we'd have to know exactly what you have, first.

In general, SLA batteries are about the same; some are a little better, but you won't really get a significant performance improvement without going to a different kind.

I'm assuming the batteries you have still have not been tested as suggested, since no test results have been posted. WIthout doing the testing, you won't know if the batteries are even the problem.


Also, you should test with the limiter back in. If the problem disappears, then it means you are simply using more capacity from the batteries with the limiter removed, and your choices are to leave the limiter in and live with the old problem, or take the limiter out and live with the new problem, or to use a larger-capacity battery, which if it's SLA is going to be heavier and larger, may not fit in the battery box. A non-SLA battery could probably be built or purchased that would run it the way you want it to, and still fit in the box.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 12 2019 11:34am

amberwolf....

I don't know how to test the batteries which is why I haven't posted any results. My husband is on disability and we don't have enough money to take the batteries in to be tested. I suspect Motorino, the maker of the scooter may be right as they are talking about the voltage cut off in our controller. Apparently, the controller requires a constant steady 10 amps or more or it will kick in.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by neptronix » Jan 12 2019 11:46am

I think you've been given some misinformation. I have never heard of a controller shutting itself off at 10 amps. That would mean that the bike could never run.. It's more likely we're talking about a low voltage cutoff.

You need some kind of meter that can determine whether you are hitting this cutoff or not. A generic $25 watt/volt/amp meter will show you the truth. Then you need to know what the cutoff voltage is - but you can figure that out by watching the screen and noticing at what point the bike cuts out.

Here is one that works up to 60 volts.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-180 ... lyzer.html

My guess would be that your battery cannot deliver the current required, or does not have the capacity you think it has. The watt meter will reveal either of these problems.. and also act as an accurate 'gas gauge', which all motorized transport should have anyway :) .
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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 12 2019 11:57am

neptronix...

Do you wire the meter in, and if so, where?

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by mark5 » Jan 12 2019 12:08pm

One webpage out there lists a 2016 Motorino XPS as having a standard 60V 20Ah SLA battery pack with optional 26Ah LiFePO4 pack. Maybe that, somehow, is what the dealer meant but it got lost between the dealer to karenw's husband to karenw to here. Or the dealer said it wrong. Or karenw has 10Ah replacement batteries.

karenw: can you take your charger with you & charge it at your workplace?

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by neptronix » Jan 12 2019 4:42pm

karenw wrote:
Jan 12 2019 11:57am
neptronix...

Do you wire the meter in, and if so, where?
You solder it ( or use connectors ) to put it in between the battery and controller so that it can measure the power and state of battery precisely.

Image

I usually run the battery wires to near the handlebars, then run a wire back to the controller.

There's more elegant options that are more expensive and easier to wire, but you're gonna pay like $90+ for those.
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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by neptronix » Jan 12 2019 4:54pm

mark5 wrote:
Jan 12 2019 12:08pm
One webpage out there lists a 2016 Motorino XPS as having a standard 60V 20Ah SLA battery pack with optional 26Ah LiFePO4 pack. Maybe that, somehow, is what the dealer meant but it got lost between the dealer to karenw's husband to karenw to here. Or the dealer said it wrong. Or karenw has 10Ah replacement batteries.

karenw: can you take your charger with you & charge it at your workplace?
Yeah, we don't know what kind of batteries are in the scooter. Possible that they could be the wrong size and don't have the range or power output..
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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 12 2019 7:13pm

Thank you, neptronix.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by karenw » Jan 12 2019 7:14pm

mark5....I am able to bring the charger to work.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by mark5 » Jan 12 2019 8:59pm

Your batteries will live longer if you charge them after you arrive at work and after you return home.

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Re: Motorino XPs Speed Problem

Post by amberwolf » Jan 12 2019 9:45pm

karenw wrote:
Jan 12 2019 11:34am
Apparently, the controller requires a constant steady 10 amps or more or it will kick in.
Pretty sure whoever is saying that to you doesn't understand how the system works, or what the various numbers they have mean, because that doesnt' make any sense for anything we've seen here.

If it were a much smaller scooter, then it might make sense for a limiter to kick in if the controller drew *more* than 10 amps, as that is a common thing (with the amount of amps varying depending on design). However, your scooter is large enough that it probably takes quite a lot more amps than that to get going, even if it doesn't use that much power all the time. (depends on the speeds, hills, etc).

It is possible that they mean that when a single battery (of the 5 SLA you probably have in there) drops below 10 *volts*, that the system shuts down.


If you don't have a voltmeter, you can get one from Harbor Freight or similar stores for a few dollars--sometimes you can even get it for free if you get their coupons in the junk mail. Even the crappy ones will do this test, so you can get one from anywhere--it just has to be capable of at least 60-70v, most of them ahve a "200vdc" setting, which is what you'd leave it on for the battery tests.

As for how to test the battery, there are two (three) tests, the first is very simple:

First, simply charge the scooter at your destination. If it doesnt' ahve the problem on the return trip like it did without doing that, then your batteries simply don't ahve enough capacity to do the trip without a recharge. If it still has the problem, then it may not have anything to do with the batteries, unless its' uphill on the ride home and downhill on the way out.

Second test: Place the voltmeter across the battery during a ride, and note down the voltage you see on the trip there when you don't have a problem, and then on the trip back both before the problem starts, and then after it starts. The red voltmeter lead goes to the battery + main wire, and the black one to the battery - main wire.

Third: A better test is to do that for each battery, because it will tell you which one of them is a problem (if they all aren't). For this the voltmeter wires go to the + and - of each separate battery.

The meter wires may not be long enough to reach inside the battery case and still see the voltmeter, so you can use long alligator-clip extension wires (and electrical tape the clip-to-meter-probe connections so they cant' short against each other or the scooter frame), and then run the meter so it is up on the handlebars, or somewhere else you can easily see it. Any wire is good enough for this test, even an old cut up two-wire extension cord, with ends cut off and wires spliced into the meter test leads to make them long enough, as long as you insulate around the splice points so they can't short anything out.

You may not have to test while actually moving, but I'd look at it while moving if it's safe to do so and possible, as that will show what the system is doing under load, and is a better test of a battery than while sitting still (no load).


A fourth test I suggested previously:
Also, you should test with the limiter back in. If the problem disappears, then it means you are simply using more capacity from the batteries with the limiter removed, and your choices are to leave the limiter in and live with the old problem, or take the limiter out and live with the new problem, or to use a larger-capacity battery.

I'm surprised the dealer won't test them for you, as it's a very simple and quick test for anyone that's done it before, and is a very common thing for dealers and repair techs to have to do. Some automotive places (checker, autozone, etc) will load test a battery for free; you can ask them if they can do it with the battery still in your scooter and ride it there, then open the battery compartment and let them test each individual battery.

If you're here in Phoenix or surrounding area, I could come to you to help figure the problem out; if you're not, we'll have to do it the hard way. ;)

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