High voltage controller

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
Post Reply
Sattva Ram   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 04 2020 3:44pm

High voltage controller

Post by Sattva Ram » Jan 04 2020 3:55pm

I am planning on building a semi race bike from scratch custom frame and all, but the highest voltage bldc controller I can find is 144v which I find too low. I dont want any compromise once I put so much effort into this project to even build my own frame. I'd want a 288v controller or thereabouts. Does anyone know of such?

User avatar
amberwolf   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 29017
Joined: Aug 17 2009 6:43am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: High voltage controller

Post by amberwolf » Jan 04 2020 4:22pm

there's a number of them, but when you get to that kind of controller it's going to be expensive not only for the controller itself, but also the programming and setup hardware and software, and likely paying someone to actually do that setup, which will be specific to the exact motor you are using, as well as the complete setup and usage of the system. given that you're custom building an entire bike, cost is hopefully not an issue.

this brand for instance
http://www.sevcon.com/products/high-vol ... ntrollers/
is notoriously difficult to setup, as it is intended for oems to figure out one prototype setup, then just copy that to all the subsequent production units. as a diyer you won't likely be able to get any help from sevcon in doing the setup, though they may well sell you the contyroller and programming hardware and software.

there's also some of the diy controllers here on es and elsewhere, some based on the lebowski controller brain. i don't recall all the designers, but there's marcos, arlo1, etc. you can search their posts for their threads about the designs.


you're unlikely to find "plug and play" controllers like you would in low voltage stuff, where you can just hookup phase and hall wires in the right combination and turn throttle and go. :(



there are other brands out there i've never heard of like these
https://www.mgm-compro.com/news/hv-igbt ... ntrollers/
if you look thru this simple google search list
https://www.google.com/search?&q=high+v ... controller

larsb   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1636
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: High voltage controller

Post by larsb » Jan 04 2020 4:25pm

These have been up on the forum, i think rovi had one for sale a while ago, might still be left.
Emsiso emdrive
Unitek bamocar
Scottdrive
Ride on!

j bjork   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 445
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: High voltage controller

Post by j bjork » Jan 05 2020 8:45am

You can also look at what jonescg is using and considered using on his racebike/racebikes.

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14255
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: High voltage controller

Post by John in CR » Jan 05 2020 11:02am

What motor are you planning to run at that kind of voltage?

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14641
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: High voltage controller

Post by fechter » Jan 05 2020 1:31pm

I’ve seen a control box that will let you use the inverter from a Nissan Leaf by itself.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

Ohbse   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 876
Joined: Dec 26 2013 5:15pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: High voltage controller

Post by Ohbse » Jan 05 2020 5:21pm

What weight/power is this bike designed to? If it's a lightweight 'bicycle' type build, then voltage >100v is unneccessary and undesirable, as more than enough performance is possible with ~80v than is possible to keep on the ground. If you're referring to a full size motorcycle build, then additional voltage can make sense - the one option that hasn't yet been mentioned is Axiom - search on this forum or hackaday to find relevant information. Axiom is capable of whatever drive voltage you require.

Sattva Ram   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 04 2020 3:44pm

Re: High voltage controller

Post by Sattva Ram » Mar 23 2020 6:14am

Thanks amberwolf! Great info.

Sattva Ram   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 04 2020 3:44pm

Re: High voltage controller

Post by Sattva Ram » Mar 23 2020 6:51am

Thanks for all the replies, but it seems the project got stranded. I was a track racer once but I got cloyed with the gas bikes, so I thought of building my own electric racebike without any compromise since I dont find any suitable one on the market atm. While the energica ego is available and also raced in motogp, but I dont think that it is the highest quality build. I find plenty of faults with its design making it an imperfect bike for racing imo. In other words they could have built a much better bike with their resources.

I was planning on using a golden motor water cooled bldc motor, the largest one they have. My plan was to integrate the motor into the swing arm kinda like the Zero SR/F or Lightning has it therefore the motor not taking up space from the battery pack and/or messing up the center of gravity. (I find Energica's solution kinda bad for if you place the motor above the swingarm then you messed up the center of gravity and also need extra gears to bring down the drive to the line of the swingarm). The problem is that it is extremely difficult to create such a swing arm DIY at this moment for me and it also requires a custom frame. Tho there are great frame builders and welders in my country for quite a low price but it still just seems to be too much hassle. So I put this project on halt for now. I think I'll just modify a Super Soco for street with either a Lyen 132v or a kelly 144v controller with around a 7 kwh pack with a 7 kw type2 on board fast charger, with a rewound hub motor for around 100kph max speed @ ~140v, so that's the plan now, this should make a very usable touring bike, not a racebike, but better than nothing...

(Also I think it might be worth it to start out with a ZERO as for the race bike. My problem with it is that its motor is not water cooled, but at least it's where it's supposed to be for a proper electric motorbike; right in the swingarm. The question is whether it can be modified for water cooling cause if it can be then the hope of a very potent electric race bike is still not lost. If I could squeeze out around 100Kw from the Zero without overheating then it could make a very very good race bike, possibly much better than the Energica...We'll see I still havent fully given up on the project)

flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1849
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Re: High voltage controller

Post by flat tire » Mar 23 2020 2:54pm

You can do 100s of kw without going over 150v. Let's look at the facts here:

--Plans to build SUPER POWERFUL bike from scratch, better than energica
--Stuck on misconception about fundamental design choice, can't reconcile so asks ES for hv controller
--Golden Motor, cuz Z-force sux
--Well, building a new swingarm is tough
--Guess I'll mod a super soco instead

Now in all seriousness there are a number of things you're not considering besides the above:

First, if you are a skilled rider, the battery will be your main issue in a 100KW output race bike. But let's face it, you probably have little to no experience and will need hundreds of hours of practice before you can ride the bike without sucking. The main concern of yours in any case should be system efficiency. This will not be a cheap project and it makes sense to buy an expensive, very efficienct axial flux motor. You could cut your losses in half or more with an Emrax vs a Golden Motor.

Finally, 100KW isn't really that fast by motorcycle standards, especially in a bike loaded with enough batteries to supply that 100KW for more than a lap or two, so it's a lot of work and money for a bike that's kind of middling, and too big and heavy to be fun. You will be better off building a lighter less powerful bike. Even 10KW will more than test your skills if you're pushing and can fit into a very simple lightweight platform.

User avatar
DogDipstick   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 434
Joined: Aug 19 2018 12:39pm
Location: Fleetwood Pa

Re: High voltage controller

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 25 2020 7:24am

flat tire wrote:
Mar 23 2020 2:54pm


Finally, 100KW isn't really that fast by motorcycle standards, ...gh batteries to supply that 100KW

and too big and heavy to be fun....
Jesus. I disagree. I almost killed myself and racked up +$30K of surgery on a bike with 67Kw.

My current bike puts down 100Kw to the back tire and WILL KILL YOU IN AN INSTANT.

9.9sec 1/4 mile. Isnt really that fast? Lolololo. 400lbs. Dead. 180mph. 146hp off the crank for 135+ down for 100Kw off the 195/55 Zr17.

It will yank you off the bars, put a bruise n your forehead.. where the wind pushes against you helmet, make the small of your back ache from the repeated thumps of 2-3-4-5 gear runs.

Wheelie at 120mph shifting into 4th. Rip the rear tire loose 150mph shifting into fifth. Lose cops easy in 6th and about 15 seconds you are out of sight while the cop is still waiting for the shift, into his next autotragic gear ratio, in his Ford Explorer or Dodge Charger.... pinned at the redline...

No lie.
100Kw is fast. Really fast.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

flat tire   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1849
Joined: Feb 26 2014 12:20am

Re: High voltage controller

Post by flat tire » Mar 25 2020 4:44pm

You're confusing skill / judgement issues with speed. You could die on a 10kw motocross bike easily.

Anyway your skills may be murdered with 100kw but there are many bikes much faster and more powerful and they're not even very expensive.

User avatar
DogDipstick   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 434
Joined: Aug 19 2018 12:39pm
Location: Fleetwood Pa

Re: High voltage controller

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 26 2020 12:17pm

flat tire wrote:
Mar 25 2020 4:44pm
You're confusing skill / judgement issues with speed. You could die on a 10kw motocross bike easily.

Anyway your skills may be murdered with 100kw but there are many bikes much faster and more powerful and they're not even very expensive.
Most bikes in production are under ( well under ) 100Kw... and .... Yeah 7.2Kw almost ripped my MCL and ACl at the same time... once, only like 10Hp. Still feel it. Any bike is dangerous, even an XR75 or XR80. I hear they fall over without balance.. round 2mph.

100Kw to the back tire is where they start getting expensive, and less of them out there except the racing bike rocketbikes.. like (7) 1000-1300cc common make bikes on the market today.

Everything else is exotic.. Even the V-Rod does not have 100Kw. (MOST POWERUL HARLEY THEY EVER MADE! 77Kw!) .. Only 90Kw.. and 77Kw to the back wheel... and is a very fast tqky bike.... to about 120mph...( top is 140mph) where...

... the ZX, CBR, 'Zook, DUKE, Yam, Aprilla, or Bimmer blows past it... topspeed of 200mph+.... Those are really the only top 7... Honda, Yam, BMW, Aprilla, Ducati, Sozooki... Kaw. There are probably 100 manufactures of bikes that go much less power levels.. Face it.. 100Kw+ is for the big boys. More under that power level than over (manufactured production mc)

Just for context.. here is 100Kw on the strip in an ebike.... Sure.

Current ZX10R only has 46 Kw more than that. 200Hp. Any bike over 100Hp ( even over 50Hp) is no place for a novice. Litre bikes hold their value.. cause power. Get a good 1000$ from any good running litrebike.. but I would not pay that for anything under 1000cc... Yeah they are cheap. They only cost 8K$ + when they are on the showroom floor. Once in their lives.. lol.

Hold that bike down good, eh? Hell yea ay? Ride it till it stops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM9jsv_Ih-M

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM9jsv_Ih-M[/youtube]
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

Post Reply