Super Soco TS Upgrade

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by amberwolf » Jul 27 2020 7:29pm

fechter wrote:
Jul 27 2020 1:42pm


Yes, I would put the fuse between the battery + and the controller.
Preferably right at the battery positive, to protect all the wiring downstream. ;)

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Jul 28 2020 12:53am

fechter wrote:
Jul 27 2020 1:42pm
Plugs are good. I use some similar to the ones you linked to. Sort of hard to plug and unplug, but I only use them when servicing something.

Yes, I would put the fuse between the battery + and the controller.
Yeah, i will not unplug it that often, it's just to avoid sparks and anxienty :lol: .
amberwolf wrote:
Jul 27 2020 7:29pm
Preferably right at the battery positive, to protect all the wiring downstream. ;)
I'll place them close to the battery positive.

Just waiting on them to arrive, as well as some more 10AWG cables. Wired the BMS yesterday with the 20 individual cells and 4 temp sensors. Also waiting on some kapton tape to arrive just to insulate the cells from the BMS wires.

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Jul 28 2020 4:12am

FFF*****CCKKKK

Battery was basically done. All connections where made, positive and negatives where connected. Just wanted to change the direction of the wire so that it would sit a bit nicer and than the soldering iron touched both busbars...

Image

What's next? Do I need to thtough it all away, measure each individuel cell again? Should I only measure voltage or also resistance (how?).


My god...I'm such an f*cking idiot!!

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Jul 28 2020 8:45am

Clean up around the cells and see if the wrappers were damaged. If not too bad, you can just reconstruct the vaporized section and it should be OK. What does the soldering iron look like?

The brief high current discharge won't damage the cells internally. Makes a really impressive spark, eh?
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Jul 29 2020 4:17pm

Wrapper is damaged but not through and through as far as I can see. I don't think there is a way to remove some cells since they are in a 20x10 holder and everything is spot-welded together.

I've shorted some stuff before but not something this big... My shirt was ruined by all the soldering stains on it
Last edited by nardcox on Jul 30 2020 11:51am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by leffex » Jul 30 2020 7:43am

nardcox wrote:
Jul 28 2020 4:12am
What's next? Do I need to thtough it all away, measure each individuel cell again? Should I only measure voltage or also resistance (how?).
The area affected I think is what received the damage. Let's say a cell on the other side would only "realease" energy at its highest rate and that's its jobb. just not continous and as we expect this was a short time and you removed the soldering iron fast.

The positive wire touched and melted to one cell group it seems. I would replace all the cells around that area if it is 5 or 15 cells not neccesarly all the cells in that group.

I have a question about the positive bar:
Is it only isolated with thin paper and cellwrap? I would add something more there and all similar places. Like 1-2mm thick plastic sheet.

If you have seen some youtube videos on battery builders some use wellpapp and sheets to protect the area."they are not working on". I think you did that when you build your battery but not in this case.

Good luck. Keep it safe
Salestech in an ebike store

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Jul 30 2020 11:57am

Yeah the soldering iron only touched for a split second.

I'm going to cover that side as well with 2mm plexiglas like I did on the other panels once all the wiring is in place, for that I had to wait on the kapton tape to arrive (which I've just received).
I've always covered off the area's with the 2mm sheet, except for this time...

How would you go about replacing cells since everything is spotwelded together. Would really hate to pull it all off again since my time working on the thing is really limited with work, other hobbies an almost 2y old and a 3w old. I miss driving my Soco :roll:

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Jul 30 2020 3:05pm

I wouldn't worry too much about the cells being damaged if the wrappers are intact. Just reconstruct the vaporized section (carefully). To replace the cells is going to be a major task.

I used masking tape to cover the parts not being worked on during construction.
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 08 2020 11:30am

So finally have some time to work on the bike tomorrow. Also received the wires and connectors.

So the connection sequence will be:
Battery minus
BMS B-
BMS C-
Controller minus (& Charger minus)
Controller positive (& Charger positive)
Fuse
AS 150 Connector
Battery plus

Is that correct? Getting anxious blowing everything up if I connect it all...

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 08 2020 1:27pm

nardcox wrote:
Aug 08 2020 11:30am

Is that correct? Getting anxious blowing everything up if I connect it all...
You should be good.
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 14 2020 4:42am

So connected everything this morning but nothing happend...
I only had the accelerator connected, do I also need to connect the 'start' button or something?

Good news is that when I plugged in the plugs nothing happend, not even a spark or something... so now I'm wondering if the power went full circle or not. Or is it a setting in the controller?

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 14 2020 9:18am

Do you have full pack voltage at the controller? I'm sure you need something other than just the throttle connected to make it go. There is an "ignition" line or something coming from the key switch or whatever switch you use to turn it on.
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 14 2020 9:57am

fechter wrote:
Aug 14 2020 9:18am
Do you have full pack voltage at the controller? I'm sure you need something other than just the throttle connected to make it go. There is an "ignition" line or something coming from the key switch or whatever switch you use to turn it on.
Interestingly I don't have the full volltage at the controller...it was only about 4.0v..

I've measured the following
Battery plus > Battery minus = 71V
Battery plus > BMS B- = 71V
Battery plus > BMS C- = 59V
Battery plus > Controller minus (& Charger minus) = 59V
Battery plus > Controller positive (& Charger positive) = 56V
Battery plus > Fuse in = 56V
Battery plus > Fuse out = 0V
Battery plus > AS 150 Connector = 0V
Battery plus > Battery plus = 0v

So somewhere the BMS takes away about 12V and the controller another 3V an the fuse kills it. I've tried both 'on' and 'off'. It doesn't matter which cables go in which side of the fuse right?

Yeah I do have a 'start' button on the Super Soco, will see where that needs to go with the Votol.

I've also tried connecting the Votol to my W10 Laptop. The adapter is recognized in the Device Manager as COM5 Prolific USB-to-Serial Comm Port. COM 5 is also in the software (VOTOL-EM-V3 Software Debugging) and I get D-Status connected. However whenever I press 'Connect' it says: "Communication abnormal, no response". I'm currently reading in the Votol topic on how to solve this (search.php?keywords=abnormal&t=95969&sf=msgonly).
Tried the V3 CAN, V3 Non Can and V3 Sport software versions, all report the same error.

EDIT: Would it be wise (read not dangerous) to disconnect the connectors, put the fase wires together (with some tape) and then plug it in again to see if it makes a difference?

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 14 2020 1:13pm

Hmmm... something isn't right. It looks like the BMS is tripped. The BMS will have a P- connection that goes to the controller negative. Make sure you have the same reading on both spots. Disconnecting the P- from the BMS (going to the load) should reset the BMS.
Also appears to be an issue with the fuse. You should see the same voltage on both sides of it. Check that out first. It doesn't matter which side of the fuse goes to the pack.

Don't connect the phase wires together. That will short the output and blow things up.
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 15 2020 6:28am

The BMS doesn't have a P- connection, only a B- and C-:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3285634 ... 4c4d0VBqyY

I have the controller negative connected to the C- on the BMS, just like stated in the previous post.

Battery + to BMS C- is now only 4,2V. The multimeter is also acting a bit funky I have to say, seems very inconsistent.
Did it again and now it's measuring 5.1V...

I wanted to only take out the fuse, so connect the in and out of those just to take that variable out, not the phase wires.

Sometimes the controller beeps, I believe 5 times short and a minute later 1 time long... Still can't get it recognized by the laptop though.

EDIT: Does the BMS need the balancing cables, I haven't connected those...

EDIT: I removed the fuse and 'measured' it with a single 18650. Result: 3.6V goes in and 3.6V goes out. Connected it back in the loop. Now measuring 53V fuse in and 0 fuse out (which made sense since I had it turned off). As soon as I switch the fuse on the voltage in drops to 0V as well... ??? I'm so confused right now.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 15 2020 11:21am

Do you have a picture of the BMS?

The balance wires need to be connected before the BMS will enable output. Using the C- connection for the output is not good, there should be a P- output unless it's a single port design. Connecting the main battery + and - to the BMS without the balance wires can blow the BMS. You always want to connect the B- first, then the balance wires, then the B+ in that order to avoid problems.

Yes, you could bypass the fuse temporarily to see if that is open circuit. You can also just measure the resistance across it with your meter.
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 16 2020 7:15am

It's this one: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VZm4Zw4QANdfecRY6, like in my previous post. An actual picture here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/gzVqDoETwRZpBr9J9

I guess it's a single port design since I only have a B- and C- (like also described in the posts before). I believe this is the ANT BMS that is being used more often here?

I have the B- connected (with 2 10 AWG wires). Also soldered the balance wires however when I want to connect the final two (the cell 20+ and the red one) to the 20+ cell side it gives a tiny spark, is this ok? It's connected like shown in the picture. Or should I first solder and then put in the plug?


Also received the new multimeter today, will measure everything up once I have the BMS properly connected.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 16 2020 11:25am

A spark is a bad sign. Normally I'd connect all the balance wires to the plug, then plug it in. Double check to make sure all the cells are in the right order at the plug using a voltmeter before plugging in. Also be sure the controller is disconnected when attaching the BMS.
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 16 2020 2:47pm

Made a small video, will disconnect the plugs and measure the individual voltages.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PMvAvK6E7WES6wDU7

Will get back asap.

EDIT: Just measured all the voltages at the balancing connector and they are all fine. I get up to 68.5 so cell 19 and then obviously the reading go to zero since the 20 cable isn't connected. I can install the cell 20 white cable but the red one causes a spark.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 17 2020 8:07am

A spark might be normal if the controller is connected, but you don't want the controller connected when you attach the BMS wires. Make sure there is nothing connected downstream of the battery.
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 17 2020 8:33am

There isn't anything connected, see the video. It's only the battery and the BMS.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 17 2020 10:22am

Possibly it's normal for that model of BMS. I would connect all the wires and see if the pack voltage appears on the output. You may get strange readings with no load applied but if it's working and enabled, the full pack voltage should appear on the output.

Nice looking pack. :thumb:
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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 18 2020 4:50pm

Thanks, obviously will clean up the wiring once it's final. I've asked in the ANT BMS topic if more people get the spark. I might disconnect it the cable, solder it and then plug it in. Maybe the spark will then be "captured" inside the BMS.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=88676&p=1577851#p1577851

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by nardcox » Aug 20 2020 1:36pm

So nobody replied in the other thread. Just soldered the final white wire and red wire and then plugged in the connector. I can see a small smark inside the connector but the BMS itself doesn't do anything. I can't find it in the VBMS app nor do I see any lights flashing.. I have no idea what to do.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mQGSaewTbBodxb6BA

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Super Soco TS Upgrade

Post by fechter » Aug 20 2020 9:47pm

Hard to know what's going on. You could leave it plugged in for a while and see if anything on it gets warm. I don't think the spark is normal or good. You may need to replace the BMS.
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