Votol vs Sabvoton

I am building an aprilia rs50 conversion and perfectly clueless as to what controller to buy. Svmc 72150, em150 and em 200 are the candidates.

I have no idea what this rated current, boost current, peak phase current and phase current protection means. I mean the kellys are at least straightforward peak and continuous is given. But I have no idea what the peak and continuous ratings are with these votols and sabvotons. Can someone translate these numbers to kelly language?

Sattva Ram said:

I am building an aprilia rs50 conversion and perfectly clueless as to what controller to buy. Svmc 72150, em150 and em 200 are the candidates.

I have no idea what this rated current, boost current, peak phase current and phase current protection means. I mean the kellys are at least straightforward peak and continuous is given. But I have no idea what the peak and continuous ratings are with these votols and sabvotons. Can someone translate these numbers to kelly language?

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I can only talk about the Sabvoton since I don't know much about the Votol.

Usually Sabvoton will mention the battery current in the product's reference name.
For example, 72150, 72200, 72260, the last 3 figures represent the current that will be taken from your battery, provided the battery is capable of delivering it.
The 72200 Controller will be able to deliver around 450-500Amps per phase, while the 72150 can deliver 350 or so. I'm not sure how much amps the 260 can provide, I kinda forgot, I guess around 600. All of these should work fine on your bike, maybe the 72150 would be a tad weak though.

Battery current will roughly correspond to the "continuous current" on the Kellys, while phase current will correspond to their peak current rating. Its a bit simplified but that's the idea.

rated current: the actual power of your controller, how much it can deliver during all the acceleration time. That's the figure you can talk about when people ask you how much power your bike makes.

boost current: some controllers have a little switch, when you press on it the controller will give some extra current for a short amount of time. Kind of comparable as the NOS on racecars if you will. Kinda sucks IMO, I prefer to get a controller delivering all its power all the time, but some people like it.

phase current: the current that goes into your motor. This is not a really relevant figure to talk about your bike's power because it is not easily linked with voltage. Too high of a phase current for too long can destroy your motor, so it's good to know what your motor can take. Unfortunately, in most cases, you just can't really know so that's mostly a trial and error process...

phase current protection meant that the controller will cut off if, for any reason, the motor asks for more than whatever this figure is.

Thank you.

So it means that when I fully pin the throttle with say the 72150 sabvoton there will be 350Amps flowing for a short period for the acceleration phase and it will slowly taper off to around 100Amps continuous.

Sattva Ram said:

Thank you.

So it means that when I fully pin the throttle with say the 72150 sabvoton there will be 350Amps flowing for a short period for the acceleration phase and it will slowly taper off to around 100Amps continuous.

Click to expand...

Depends where you measure. It will be something like that if you look at the motor side, but at the battery side it will look more like something like this:
-0-10 km/h -->50-60A
-10-> 80kmh --> quick ramp up to 150A, stays constant for a while, and then slowly decreases
-80 -> top speed ---> ramp down to 80-100A

On a kelly it would be more something like:
-0-10kmh -->150A or more
-10-80kmh --> 100A or around

That's what I don't like on Kelly controllers, they give everything on the first few meters and after that they are mostly flat and boring. The Sabvoton feel more like gas engine, not a lot of torque at very low end, but more and more as it revs up.

Ahhhh I see now. That's very bad news tho. I have a greyborg ebike now with a 15 Fet budget greentime controller and it is shunted to around 110 amps it gives 110 amps in the beginning and tapers off to around 30 amps at the 70kph top speed on flat. And on steep climbs it is happy to give 80-70 amp continuous until the hubmotor overheats of course. So it means that my heavy motorbike with the 72150 sabvoton controller wouldnt accelerate much better than my current ebike, or even worse.


The Votol em150 says 200 amps "boost current" so I suppose it means that it can give out 200 amps for the acceleration period making 14 kw during the acceleration. So I guess it's a better controller than the sabvoton 150. (It's also slightly more expensive maybe no coincidence.)

So if I am correct with the sabvoton 72150 controller for example I will never see more than 150 amps on the cycle analyst? That's the absolute max amp even during acceleration? Right now I see 110 max on my ebike computer when accelerating measured at the battery of course (and actually it was 150 in the beginning only it broke the crystalye bicycle axle.)

If you look at the specifications for the votol em150sp it says 380 phase A and 120 (or something like that) battery A.
200bA in sport mode I think.
On the em150s I think it says 470pA. But it seems in reality the sp also is set up for 470pA.

At least a few of us use 500pA and 300bA, and stay in sport mode all the time. But all of this is already in the votol thread.

Over 100bA from standstill or near standstill? Is it possible, the pA must be enormous?

As I understand it the phase A limit limits the battery amp at low rpm, the battery A limit limits phase A at higher rpm.

Yeah I already figured how it works. Kelly specifies motor current while the votol and sabvoton specifies both motor and battery current.

I am sure I am not gonna buy the em150 now that's waay to weak. (I almost ordered it how lucky that I didnt.) The minimum is the em200 that does 250A boost. But I just got to know that there is em300 also that does 450 boost current. Now that shit aint no joker. But 450 seem a bit much for the qs 4000watt motor even just for short bursts. However I plan on adding extra heat sinks to the motor and also a computer fan inside it and changing the phase wires if need be.

I just dont see how much the em300 costs yet. Or maybe I could give some shunt to the em200 to reach a 300A peak. Maybe 450 Amps will be too much anyway then why buy the more expensive controller? Also 450 Amps would create 4kw of heat just in the 8kwh battery pack - tho the battery will be water cooled - it would also require ginormous nickel strips and wires. Well who knows I am still vacillating. If the price is not bad for the 300 I think I'll side with that. After all 32kw is kinda brisk from red to red...I love performance

Anyway thanks everyone for the invaluable advices I know what I have to know now.

As I said, me and a few others run 500pA and 300bA on the em150sp.
You dont need any shunt mod, the controllers are unlocked. As you can see in the votol thread..
I dont think the bA is a problem, but it is 24fet and can probably not handle much over 500pA.
So I dont really get that it is waay to weak, and you want at least 250bA "boost"

That being said, I would sure go for em200 or 300 on a qs 138 90h.
Not really for the bA, but the pA.
They have not been very reliable as you can see in the em200 thread, but hopefully that is sorted now.

Thanks

The 300 is out of production. And it seems the 200 is unreliable. I saw your comment on the 200 thread that you run the 150 at 300bA. How is it working? Does the regen work properly? Did you have any issues with it? For how many miles have you been using it?

What's the difference between the 200 and the 150 anyway? They are both 2 kilos. They seem to be the same size too.

It seems to me that the sabvoton 260 is also unavailable.

Maybe the sabvoton 72200 is the best option after all...I am clueless again...

Yeah I checked the dimensions the 200 and 150 have the same case the 200 is even a bit lighter something is fishy. I guess they both have 24Fets then. Maybe the 200 uses better fets that's why it's more expensive. I wonder tho whether the 200 is even available it is not sold on ali as standalone it is only orderable now in kit with the motor. Maybe it shared the fate of the 300 and gone extinct now due to reliability issues. Frankly if it is the same as the 150 then I dont know why it's so unreliable i dont think there is any other difference than the fets...

Every time I have checked the 200 is a lot bigger than the 150.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001499927273.html?gps-id=pcStoreNewArrivals&scm=1007.23409.123629.0&scm_id=1007.23409.123629.0&scm-url=1007.23409.123629.0&pvid=6fa6a723-4a0f-4ba6-88dd-b1fe2180b8b5&spm=a2g0o.store_home.smartNewArrivals_155413037.1005001499927273

It seems to not be available again out of the kits, it was not very long ago.
I think it is 30 or 36 fets, I dont remember if I found out witch.

I have some problems with cutouts when braking when the wheel bumps around and probably locks and turns sporadically. There are some info about it in my ktm thread, and probably in the votol thread too. When that happens the regen cuts out too. But it seems like I am the only one with that problem on this forum, so I dont know what to make of it. I havent had any problem at high power.

On the website I found the same case size and I found it very strange, but it must have been an error then.

Interesting maybe it's an abs kinda thing under braking when there's a larger bump the wheel tends to lock when its unloaded for a moment. Maybe it senses the wheel lock and doesnt like it so it cuts out...My wheel also locks under braking on bumps but it never leads to cut out. I also think there's an abs kinda thingy in it cause it only locks for short times...

Okay then maybe I take my chance with the em200, it's still a candidate then. After all the sabvoton is a fortune, the votol seems to be the best Amp/buck player. Tho I guess I flick through everything about these two guys here on the forum before I buy. Either svmc72200 or em200 that much is true now.
400 amps would be a nice goal, after all the bms doesnt allow more anyway...

Thanks for the help