special pleading

Robint

10 mW
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25
Hi all
as a newbie here may I make a special plea for a subsection here that addresses the needs of mobility scooter users. AFAIK there is no reputable forum that deals with EV issues, which in many ways are similar to Ebike users but with some important caveats

The mobility industry is plagued with snake oil sales men and other forms of low life who prey on helpless customers. So website claiming to be mobility forums are nothing more than shop fronts for some very dodgy dealers.

Many users may not understand the basics of Lab batteries and their limitations. I am a retired PE and always advise potential users to take any scooter range and divide by 4 , Thats how bad the hype is IMHO. Not only will you give yourself a good margin of safety but you will also double the life cycle of the batteries as you never go below 50% DoD.

If you use your scooter daily and run down to 40% you may get 500cycles, say 18months before noticeable lack of capacity (say 60%)
I fitted 2x quality 120Ah batteries and got 4 years use (maybe 3x week - say 400cycles), always keeping full charge and never below 30%. These were £400

If these are used by a leisure hire company batteries probably need change out every season. They will also be equipped with a recovery vehicle

I came here not for Labs but how to convert to Lifepo4 batteries and have found some very important tips here. I think this is a relatively new area for mobility scooter because the cost is ca 3x lab. But the advantages if properly engineered will be ground breaking.

I believe it will be essential to install a charge meter so I would like to hear from others who have gone down this path. For examlpe the RC market considers these an essential tool as a flat battery means a far out fail and a destructive crash so there are similarities there with a mobility scooter.
Robin :p
 
What specifically are you asking for help on?

I think what you are referring to is a BMS, or Battery Management System. When dealing with large lithium packs it is important to keep the individual cells "balanced", ie, at the same voltage. By installing a BMS on the battery the cells will stay balanced when the vehicle is in use AND when it is being charged.

Some users opt only to use the BMS for charging in high current draw applications, but it does not sound like this would the case for a mobility scooter.
 
G'day Robin.
I agree with you, perhaps ES administrators could add a mobility section. How about it?
LiFe batteries have longer cycle life than lead acid but that's the only advantage I see in a mobility scooter application. There are LiFe batteries out there such as Fusion brand that are a drop in replacement for lead. They can even use the lead charger as long as it's 1 or 2 stage only.
Lead acid is used in mobility scooters for it's rugged simplicity & proven reliability which IMO is the most important thing for a mobility device.
The BMS is the most likely component to fail, leaving the user stranded. Also, lead acid handles 1d10t errors better without catching fire.
Another point for lead acid is the weight. All that lead down low lowers the centre of gravity for better stability.
I've been a mobility scooter & powerchair service tech for 5 years now. If you have any questions mate, I'm happy to help.

AussieRider
 
G day AR, good to have a real scooter expert on board rather than the armchair variety :cry:

Labs have been around forever. Thier biggest problem is that it is so difficult to determine the available capacity. Your estimate could easily be 50% wrong
I always say to newbies, "whatever the maker says about range divide by 4"
So if 30 miles is claimed limit to 7.5miles till you have tried several return trips and monitored standing voltages (waiting 10 mins for them to stabilise)
then monitor the Ah charge amount - you can use one of those cheap main plug units that read volts amps and watts etc <£10 on ebay
Its not a precise measure cos you have the charger efficincy involved, but its a good relative measure for comparison of various trips
I havent yet found a direct amp charge meter but that means breaking into the charge line

AFAIK the Lifepo4 are much better behaved in determining available capacity

I agree that the BMS is a notable weak link, but I think there may be a method to instal bypass switches so the batteries are direct connect (still protected by a crude thermal current overload trip as per lab battery systems, afterall the bms isnt really needed in the discharge mode.

I am deeply suspicious of these cheapo PRC bms available on EB, they are complicated

Differing from the hugely experienced rc market scooter riders are not after the last ultimate in capacity, 29-90% would be more than happy
The trick maybe KISS eg mechanically switch a bank of 4s out to 4p and charge from a common 12v regulated source to a safe level of 3.2v. That does away with potential unbalanced cells you dont know about as this is where trouble can star

In other words I have my belt and braces safety/reliability hat on

incidentally I came across a drop in replacement TN power lfp12,8v 100Ah
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TN-POWER-LiFePO4-12V-100aH-LITHIUM-Leisure-Battery-PN-TN100/184469838595?hash=item2af3425b03:g:5OYAAOSwp7xemV4w £650 ea

ie £1300 vs £300 for my rig

it seems the bms is inside under the cap - but how good is it?

so its all a very young area and unfortunately the mobility industry is rife with rip off BS sheisters and very low grade push bike techies workshops
in our area if your scooter breaks down you wont get any help anywhere unless you bought the scooter from the shop - forget about the AA, you are stuck on the pavement on your own, you cant tow them more than few mph

i have a spare scooter and would like to experiment with a mobility friendly version of lifepo4 use
 
I like the idea of a subsection .. and cool timing too... I have a mobility scooter and have some lifepo4 batteries coming in allegedly this week. Perhaps a different title besides "special pleading" would get more views.

Also too many acronyms ... in my humble opinion. I had to google 1.AFAIK, 2.retired PE and 3. Labs (which I assume is a Sealed Lead Acid battery) all that googling and I still do not know if we are communicating efficiently. :lol: :(
 
Yeehaa, we have always been two countries divided by a common language

When I worked in Corpus, I had to tell co workers I was from Boston, that way they found ways to accept they didnt understand me and I didnt suffer the indignity of being called a "European"

My street cred went down badly when I was overheard talking to a waitress in Spanish

hijo da puta

But I really liked Tx Until they tried to force a green card on me :evil:
 
AussieRider said:
I agree with you, perhaps ES administrators could add a mobility section. How about it?

I'm in the middle of proposing an organization plan that includes mobility devices and a few more categories.
Making ES useful for all forms of electric transport is a big priority.
 
well i believe that would be very valuable as Mobs are a significant type of EV and AFAIK completely unrepresented as a user forum for exchange
there are all too many sites that are nothing more than outlets for snakeoil salesmen

I cannot stress too highly the value of these vehicles to impaired persons and their quality of life. Untill you are struck down with arthritis you dont realise how much you took it for granted just taking a short walk

I think the RC crowd and the Ebike have important experiences they can share with getting a LAB scooter over to LiFe batteries
4x life cycle of LABs
30% greater Ah
50% lighter
accurate measure of stored Ah capacity
but we need to address safe usage and monitoring

OBTW while on LABs I would be most interested to hear the experiences of board member who might be members of golf clubs and how the battery golf carts are managed
Indeed I think there are motorised golf caddies as well that may have some relevant experience
 
Cool idea! Some of your acronyms are cryptic, perhaps you could attach these acronyms in parantheses until we get accustomed to them? I'd be happy to welcome mobility scooter hackers. Best of luck
 
If you're set on lifepoe4, I can recommend the electrodacus.com bms and a store in Eurhopistan called gwl.eu.
You might also be interested in a motor controller platform called vesc. With which you can setup all kinds of stuff including ,low voltage cutoff, integrated IMU, logging.
 
link broken

https://www.electrodacus.com/
 
links

https://shop.gwl.eu/

https://www.electrodacus.com/
 
G'day folks.
There are two main brands of controller used in mobility, Dynamic and Penny & Giles. Both have extensive parameters you can adjust including low voltage cutout & rollback, max motor current, boost current, acceleration & much more. They also have fault & system logging. All you need is the software & cables, easily available from the companies, and a PC. A third brand is PhiSiang but they're propriety to Shoprider & not easy get into even with the software / hardware.
The light weight of lithium batts is a disadvantage in scooters because it raises the CG making the machine less stable.
Lead acid batteries are commonly referred to as SLA ( sealed lead acid ) here. Took me a while to work out what LAB meant & I still don't get PE. Robin?

AussieRider
 
please dont forget 1 BIG aspect with the use of SLA in mobillity scooters:

the weight of the batteries if what gives the scooter its stabillity.

yes, this needs to be VERY clear before changing the battery type.

i have done dozens of scooters and generally used lipo packs for their energy density and lower price.
BUT to compensate for the litteral dozens of pounds the scooter loses i have always added a big steel plate that covers the floor of the battery compartiment. generally a plate that has 80% of the weight of the orignal batteries. this ensures that the scooter will not fall over at the first incline or corner.
 
PE is what the cousins call a professional engineer, he is licenced by his state to practice in his state and has a stamp to prove it (which he never uses cos of horrendous professional indemnity). Indeed most technical persons never bother with that route, having an engineering degree gets you an interview.
PG drives
https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Library/Manuals

https://www.dynamiccontrols.com/our-products/rhino-2

I was hoping I wouldnt have to get into that side of the game

Do you get any TGA Supersport scoots down under? - made in Israel
https://www.tgamobility.co.uk/range/scooters/supersport
fun machines for crippled ex bikers like me. AFAIK good quality well built but with some issues :p
 
Good point flippy

I can see this thread building up a bullet point list of design objectives

I have heard of that type of serious accident caused by a 3 wheel "shopping" scooter taken on the footpath by know-it=all granny, and she got tipped off trying to go down a kerb slantwise. fortunately she didnt break a hip

  • Must fit into existing std LAB space
    reduction in battery weight must be compensated
    motive reliability paramount
    emergency bypass switch in case of BMS failure
    suitable battery cell and capacity monitoring
    nice to have bluetooth logging
    Batteries should be arranged to operate between 90%-40% to max out cycle life with emergency override to 20%

Im sure there's more pls add

OBTW is LiFePo4 the only game or should we also consider Lipos favoured by the RC boys or is that too dangerous
 
Robint said:
OBTW is LiFePo4 the only game or should we also consider Lipos favoured by the RC boys or is that too dangerous

18650 would be the most abvious choice. pouches have no place in an application like this and are still extremely dangerous without special precaucions that negate their advantages compared to a simple 18650 pack. lifepo has the problem of an extremely flat discharge curve so its nearly impossible to know the real SoC so you can end up with a dead battery far from home.
 
indeed going from 3v to 2.9v as a usable capacity 90-20% is indeed very uncomfortable using a direct Volt measurement

I would go for a charge meter and have ordered this for evaluation
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G-T-Power-100A-Multifunction-Watt-Meter-LiPo-Capacity-and-Cell-Checker/164032562268?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dc556288d89434596a88a4b10e57ad5d5%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D402750177190%26itm%3D164032562268%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ac78558af-908f-11eb-b54d-ce4785c07c79%7Cparentrq%3A7e1916741780a9f5a7a86298fff00d47%7Ciid%3A1

seems fit for purpose?

either that or cobble together my own Ah meter

Lipos you can go from 4.2 to <3.0v but this means welding together your own pack

lets see @ nom 3.5v and 3Ah I need 7s20p 149 pce
trouble is that Ebay is 99% full of fake rubbish, shameless recycled repackaged half power

ca £5.00 ea, that £700 without bms

How do ebikers get round this problem?

at the moment I am seriously looking at GW
https://shop.gwl.eu/LiFeYPO4-batteries-12V-1-1/GBS-LiFePO4-High-Power-battery-pack-12V-30Ah.html?cur=1 :?:

oh and also their BMS
https://files.gwl.eu/inc/_doc/attach/StoItem/7511/123SmartBMS_gen3_manual.pdf
 
Well guys loks like im gonna hit the button on this



24V, 2.4kWh LiFeYPO4 set with 100Ah cells, BMS mobile monitoring

https://shop.gwl.eu/Winston-12V-sets/24V-2-4kWh-LiFeYPO4-set-with-100Ah-cells-BMS-mobile-monitoring.html?cur=1

the BMS looks real engineering w bluetooth

its gonna cost 3x SLA equiv but I get 30% more Ah and maybe 3000 5000 cycles that 10x life of SLA

so do i want to be the richest man in the graveyard :p

FYI my TGA rig cost ca £4000 new (i got mine s/h for 2k)

if anyone gets one I have a few caveats but they are still the business and looks like a Harley, 1300W motor flies up hills
 
hope im not breaking any rules here and not intending to promote another board but there were some pretty interesting experiences posted here
if there are any hidden board links pls remove
in the pursuit of wisdom


Winston LFP life?? Real world usage
02-06-2018, 07:56 PM
Hi guys,

I am looking into replacing my bank, it still has a few years left but just getting my options together.

Looking at the winston LFP batts, but I have issues with their claims of >=7000 cycles. Now this would equate to 19.2yrs life span on a daily cycle. Winston do not state any expectancy on Time life
I am very pessimistic of these claims and was wondering if I could get some real world examples from people running these prismatic cells.

So if your running a winston LFP bank I would like to hear your experiences, and details of your install. Ie age, cycles (approx), capacity loss etc.

Winston have quoted me $1USD/ah/cell which comes to $8000USD for a 24v 1000ah bank + shipping plus import duty to my country (AUS) = ~700Ah usable
Temps are not a problem as the batts will be kept in my Air conditioned battery room, so constant 25-30 deg c. (air con goes off at night, when there is no solar input)

The other option I have is to go LA again, at present I'm using gell, but I would go to these Trojan FLA's this time
http://www.trojanbattery.com/product...ine-flooded-2/

Mainly due to the 3600 cycles at 50% discharge. The Trojan bank comes in slightly cheaper for a similar bank with ~675Ah usable @ 50%
Trojan also claim there cells have a 17.6yr Time life.
By cycle life alone the cells are looking at approx 10yrs

Looking forward to hearing peoples experiences with the Winston, I know sunking is of the opinion that at this stage LFP is not worth it over LA/FLA
Last edited by inetdog; 03-03-2019, 01:50 PM. Reason: Fixed speling in Title
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Mike90250
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#2
02-06-2018, 10:34 PM
If you have lead acid, and can tough out another battery cycle of what you have now, that's the route I'd suggest. then for the next 7 years while you are watering the batteries, you can hope some better tech comes along. LFP is not quite ready yet, too many things for the layman to overlook or not notice something is wrong. 1 over charge or 1 deep discharge, and that cell(s) are toast. Charge controllers mostly don't talk to BMS. BMS vendor will only replace BMS if it goes bad and kills the bank.
Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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#3
02-06-2018, 11:37 PM
I should add, that my current system. Victron Multi with AC coupled solar is fully compatible both with LFP and talking to a individual cell monitoring (high/low) BMS.
But after reading this forum I'm swaying towards the Trojans as almost guaranteed ~10yr life for my investment.
The Winston cells were looking good but I can't find any data supporting their claimed 7000cycles at 70% DOD, nor their time life.

karrak
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#4
02-07-2018, 09:19 AM
I am responsible for designing and installing two offgrid systems which are nearly five years old that use Winston batteries. I have not noticed any change in the performance of both batteries since they were new. Both batteries comprise 32x90Ah Winston batteries which give nominal storage of ~9.3kWh. My daily average power consumption over last year was ~3.1kWh/day, maximum power out ~6.0kW, maximum power in ~1.3kW. We don't have and don't need a generator for backup.

Now that solar panels are much cheaper if I built the system now I would reduce the battery size by a third and more than double the size of the solar array. If you have a generator cycling LFP (LiFePO4) 50+%/day in the SOC range 99%-20% and turning on the generator if the SOC goes below 20% to boost the SOC to around 40%-50% will give good utilisation of the battery.

I would have a look at posts by steveg to see how he runs his LFP based system that is nearly 8 years old. There are many people on the Australian Energy Matters forum that have been running both Winston and CALB LFP batteries for around 5 years with similar stories.

Two big differences between LFP and LA batteries are
  1. The internal resistance of LFP batteries does not change much over time so you might loose 10%-20% of capacity with an LFP battery over ten years but the voltage sag with load will not change.
  2. The overall efficiency of an LFP battery of around 95% battery will not change much with age

Simon
Off grid 24V system, 6x190W Solar Panels, 32x90ah Winston LiFeYPO4 batteries installed April 2013
BMS - Homemade Battery logger github.com/simat/BatteryMonitor/wiki
Latronics 4kW Inverter, homemade MPPT controller
Off-Grid LFP(LiFePO4) system since April 2013

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#5
02-28-2019, 10:17 PM
Hello! Gammanone I also looking into to replacing old LA bank. Few days ago I found quite interesting article "Battery capacity drop during operation" written by S. Papezova and V. Papez.
According this article winston cells dont last that long as mentioned in specification, but still they are living 4000 cycles 50% DoD.
I want to run 48 winston LiFeYPO4 400 Ah cells 16s3p with Victron Multi. The question there is how to find good BMS which can communicate with Victron CCGX. Dear karrak could you give recomendations?

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#6
02-28-2019, 11:16 PM
Originally posted by Vildhjarta View Post
Hello! Gammanone I also looking into to replacing old LA bank. Few days ago I found quite interesting article "Battery capacity drop during operation" written by S. Papezova and V. Papez.
According this article winston cells dont last that long as mentioned in specification, but still they are living 4000 cycles 50% DoD.
I want to run 48 winston LiFeYPO4 400 Ah cells 16s3p with Victron Multi. The question there is how to find good BMS which can communicate with Victron CCGX. Dear karrak could you give recomendations?
Unfortunately the number one person that was supporting the Winston cells has been banned and will no longer be providing any input to this forum.

If I were you I would do a deep dive into finding if the claim of 4000 cycles was valid before I purchase those things.

tom rickard
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#7
03-02-2019, 09:11 PM
I know of more than a dozen systems using Winston cells that are more than 5 years old and still going strong. Use a good BMS, and most importantly install your batts in a climate controlled enclosure.

The REC BMS will communicate with the Victron

Sunking
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#8
03-02-2019, 10:19 PM
Winston cells are about as low end as you can get. No BMS required.
MSEE, PE

tom rickard
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#9
03-03-2019, 07:59 AM
I agree, and yet there are plenty of Winston systems in use from 2012 that are still at well over 80% capacity.

It bodes well for the well built cells lasting 20years +

The BMS isn't required, but if you have something like a Victron easysolar, it makes DIY lithium pretty foolproof.

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#10
03-03-2019, 10:45 AM
I put 35 Winston 100 Ahr cells in an EV in 2012. They were purchased from a local distributor in LA. I sold that car in 2016, and as far as I know they are still powering that car. It did have a BMS..
9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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#11
03-03-2019, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by tom rickard View Post
....

The BMS isn't required, but if you have something like a Victron easysolar, it makes DIY lithium pretty foolproof.
So, this is your last warning. Spouting nonsense like BMS with brand xyzed batteries is not required.

You are fricking dangerous stupid. You must have watched some youtube videos in your lifetime. People never do things right, they always shortcut, and Li batteries have no forgiveness. Do the wrong thing, and they self-immolate . No lighter fluid needed

We will ban you in a heartbeat spouting this dangerous advice. Even couched in terms " I did it, and it's been safe so far ".

You will kill some ignorant prepper family because the read your advice and experience, and died a week after the fire from hydrofluoric acid burns in their lungs


Originally posted by Sunking View Post
Winston cells are about as low end as you can get. No BMS required.
You too ! I get the joke, but joe prepper won't

While LiPo4 batteries are safer, they are no idiot proof. Take away the BMS and some joker will leave a charger on the wrong setting
Last edited by Mike90250; 03-03-2019, 12:34 PM.
Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
|| Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
|| VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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Sunking
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#12
03-03-2019, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Vildhjarta View Post
According this article winston cells dont last that long as mentioned in specification, but still they are living 4000 cycles 50% DoD.
OK hold the bus here and use some common sense. Winston, Calb, and Sinopoly are all Chi-Com batteries and are the lowest quality cells money can buy. That is just a fact. The very best LFP cells are made by A123 Systems, LG Chem, and Panasonic. So ask yourself this. If those top branded companies only companies only claim and warrant 1000 cycles or less, what leads you to believe Chi-Coms are superior? Are you that gullible and ignorant? Calb, Winston and Sinopoly are what is left of the bankrupt Thundersky batteries.

I have used CALB and Winston Cells. They come no where close to Panasonic and LG Chem. For an EV, manufactures must use Lithium batteries, and none use LFP cells. They would use Pb batteries if they could because they last longer at 1/5 to 1/3 the price of lithium. The problem is size and weight which is not a problem for stationary solar systems.

For 1/3 the price of lithium you can buy Pb batteries that can be discharged to 50% DOD with 3600 cycles and come with a real 10-year warranty made in the USA. I dare you to fike a claim on a Chi-Com with a 1-year warranty you will never get them to honor. That ten year warranty is full replacement for the first 3 years.

I use lithium batteries, a lot of them. But they all have niche applications like EV's, RC planes, laptops, cell phones, and power tools. When lithium can be competitive with Pb for RE and general purposes, I will switch. That day has not come around yet.

MSEE, PE

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#13
03-03-2019, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

.....You too .

While LiPo4 batteries are safer, they are no idiot proof..........
I don't think Sunking is joking. I have read many of his posts about the safe use of lithium batteries with and without BMSs. The important details are what are the safe practices and what chemistries are more volatile. This sticky thread is a good discussion of proper care:


Also, do you mean LFP (LiFePO4)? Lipo batteries are the ones used by RC Plane hobbyists and they produce spectacular fires when damaged by puncturing or overcharging. Again SK can enlighten us about the differences, if he has the time.
Last edited by Ampster; 03-03-2019, 03:24 PM.
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#14
03-03-2019, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Ampster View Post
Also, do you mean LFP (LiFePO4)? Lipo batteries are the ones used by RC Plane hobbyists and they produce spectacular fires when damaged by puncturing or overcharging. Again SK can enlighten us about the differences, if he has the time.
LFP = Lithium Iron Phosphate: LiFePO[SUB]4[/SUB]
LCO = Lithium Cobalt Oxide: LiCoO[SUB]2
LMO = [/SUB]Lithium Manganese Oxide: LiMn[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]4[/SUB]
NMC = Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide: LiNiMnCoO[SUB]2

Those are the most commercially used Lithium batteries out there. EV manucatures do not use LFP because the energy density is not that great compared to the other types. Well some Chi=Com EV's use LFP cells, but do not look for them outside of China. LFP is the most stable where LCO has the highest energy density but the most unstable. Tesla Motors who is now going bankrupt uses LCO type cells. Nissan uses NMC, and others use LMO.

LiPo today has no real meaning and a marketing term. For whatever reason RC Model Industry uses that term, but they are hybrid LCO cells that use a Gelled Electrolyte to get internal resistance as low as possible and highest energy density. As such are very unstable and dangerous with the shortest life cycle of 50 to 100 cycles. However there Specific Energy and Energy Density are the highest of all batteries. Today they are rated up to 100C discharge rates. If you do not understand what 100C means is fully discharged in 36 seconds. Put another way a 1 AH battery discharge at 100 amps in 36 seconds. Applications would be something like rocket motor fuel pumps or drag racing where price is no object, only performance matters.

EDIT NOTE: I left one very popular type out and made a mistake. NCA =
[/SUB]Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide: LiNiCoAlO[SUB]2. This is the one Telsa uses on thier EV's and made by Panasonic. These are the bad boys of the lithium battery crowd. Very expensive and dangerous. But they have the highest energy density of 250 wh.Kg. Check out the spec sheet and note Cycle Life = 500 cycles which is about the norm. They are Panasonic NCR18650B cells. [/SUB]
Last edited by Sunking; 03-03-2019, 09:29 PM.
MSEE, PE

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#15
03-03-2019, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Sunking View Post

LFP = Lithium Iron Phosphate: LiFePO[SUB]4[/SUB]
LCO = Lithium Cobalt Oxide: LiCoO[SUB]2
LMO = [/SUB]Lithium Manganese Oxide: LiMn[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]4[/SUB]
NMC = Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide: LiNiMnCoO[SUB]2
......
Where do LiPO batteries fit in, I read recently that the new Hyundai and Kia EVs are using LiPO batteries made by LG Chem. All I know about LiPO is they use a polymer electrolyte instead of a liquid electrolyte. Is it the electrolyte that makes them volatile or a combination of the electrolyte and one of the Cobalt chemistries that makes them roman candles when they get overheated?
 
Corpus Pretty I have not been there in a while...

I received my life04 from battery hookup these ones https://batteryhookup.com/products/module-with-32-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-24v?variant=39469156696226.

Do you have a picture of your TGA rig?



Robint said:
Well guys loks like im gonna hit the button on this



24V, 2.4kWh LiFeYPO4 set with 100Ah cells, BMS mobile monitoring

https://shop.gwl.eu/Winston-12V-sets/24V-2-4kWh-LiFeYPO4-set-with-100Ah-cells-BMS-mobile-monitoring.html?cur=1

the BMS looks real engineering w bluetooth

its gonna cost 3x SLA equiv but I get 30% more Ah and maybe 3000 5000 cycles that 10x life of SLA

so do i want to be the richest man in the graveyard :p

FYI my TGA rig cost ca £4000 new (i got mine s/h for 2k)

if anyone gets one I have a few caveats but they are still the business and looks like a Harley, 1300W motor flies up hills
 
https://www.tgamobility.co.uk/range/scooters/supersport

way to go :eek:
 

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Robint said:
https://www.tgamobility.co.uk/range/scooters/supersport

way to go :eek:



Thanks for the prompt response and sweet ride. I could use some big rear wheels like that ASAP. It would probably double my speed instantly. .. plenty of torque in those motors. Whaaat suspension up front. Feel free to take a picture of how that wheel attaches to the axle if you want. I have been keeping an eye out for bigger rear wheels for years. I wonder if they will sell me a pair.
 
note its a solid chassis no suspension, or telescopics they are fake

i made a special bobber seat with bed springs otherwise pavement travel was pretty hard on the spine
 
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