Advice ATV motor

Hello my name is Ronnie Lageveen I am 26 years old and I come from the Netherlands.

I plan to make a electric vehicle on a small budget.

I have read the Forum carefully and have already come across several projects.

My first plan is to make an electric ATV. I have been a car mechanic myself so I know quite a lot about cars, especially the mechanical part. The electrical part is not new to me but I don't know everything about it either. I did study installation technology for 2 years.

For my ATV project. I have seen several potential engines such as the QS 138 or the ME1616. I just don't think these are very powerful engines, or i mean they do not have enough power to fit multiple projects.

I also had a look myself, but there is quite little information to be found about, for example, an engine from a Toyota Prius.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what the options are for other engines or engines that are often scrapped, for example.


thanks in advance

Ronnie

Dpending on the weight/size of the ATV The QS138 90H (4000w) motor will be more then enough. Your biggest issue is providing enough power to feed the motor. You can go with a more powerful motor but then you will need to spend more money and take up more space with battery power.

Has similar power to a 400cc quad.

Rated Power: 7500W

Peak Power: 13.5kW

Rated Voltage: 72V

Speed: 4000RPM

With Flux Weakening(RPM): 6500RPM

Rated Torque: 14.3N.m

Max Torque: 72.N.m

Cooling Method: Air Cooling

Max Efficiency: 94%

Continuous Battery Current: 89A

Peak Battery Current: 200A

Thermic Probe: KTY83/122 (as default)

Working Temperature: 70-120C, peak 150C

Hall Sensor: Single Hall Set with Waterproof Connectors

Phase Wire: 20mm2 Cross Section (not include insulation layer)

Waterproof Grade: IP67

Color: Black

N.W./G.W.: approx 13kgs/14kgs

yes, but it seems to me that there are also a lot of used engines available. For example, I saw someone use an engine from a prius.
I'm looking for cheap alternatives. are there any? I can buy a complete prius engine here for $400. are there alternatives?

There are many options out there for hybrid motors, including ones smaller than the prius that may be easier to fit, the problem with many of them, and the reason I think you don't see more conversions using them is driving them. Many run on higher voltages with IPM motors that are designed to run on the controllers they are built for, it's perfectly possible to find controllers for them but they will take skill to tune them or you need to use the stock controllers which requires a whole different skill set to interface with. Both are options but won't be as plug and play as a QS motor running at a lower voltage with better controller support.

I warn you as someone who does this constantly and often regrets it, trying to be clever and DIY something to save money is often (but not always) a way to waste far more time and money than you planned. If you really enjoy messing with motor controllers then go for it but make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. Finding someone who has used the motor you are after with a known controller that you can learn from would be a good place to start. Something like an IMA "Integrated Motor Assist" motor from a smaller car may be much easier. Just as an example a civic hybrid motor is $250 on ebay and runs at a more manageable but still difficult 150V or so.

Thanks for the advice, I can do something with that.
And what about a forklift motor ?

While I'm just going on limited knowledge in the field of forklifts I think generally they are lower voltage DC brushed motors, so that makes them easier to drive but I think they are also generally very very heavy because they are made to be durable, long lasting, and fork lifts have to be really heavy anyway. Maybe you can get the power to weight ratio you want out of them by driving them very hard but may still be too heavy for a quad regardless. Really it all comes down to what you want out of this project, if you want something that will perform like a quadbike in terms of power then you'll need to spec out and spend the money or time for high power to weight ratio motor and batteries.

I’d say that it will not really be worth the effort to go with something else than a qs138 90h, I’ve used a 138 70h at about 20kW for some years and man, this thing pulls! They are good quality motors and can be easily matched to a good controller.

Anyway, please understand that 80% of any build is to build the battery which most first-timers (including myself) forget.. so it’s better to focus your efforts there than on the motor/controller, especially if it’s your first build.

Good luck!

larsb said:

Anyway, please understand that 80% of any build is to build the battery which most first-timers (including myself) forget.. so it’s better to focus your efforts there than on the motor/controller, especially if it’s your first build.

Click to expand...

I can underline those words...

I understand that the battery is also important.
I do have some experience with batteries and plan to make my own. I already have a spot welder and have made batteries of 18650 cells a few times. I am now mainly concerned with the options in terms of engines. A forklift engine is not expensive. And easy to find. I think it would be fun to try different things. After a long illness I am now on my feet again and I try to spend my time working on Some fun projects. I saw that they also use a lot of forklift engines in cars with a lot of over voltage. Please let me know if there are any more options.
It strikes me that nowadays people are quick to say that is not possible, or that is impossible. instead of trying to help. I've seen a lot of posts on this forum where people post their ideas and people say no that can never go well, But in the end it worked. criticism is not very bad at all but constructive criticism and not condescending criticism

Not "also" important, the battery is of primary importance, it's what you start with and develop around. It's counter-intuitive coming from an infernal combustion background, feels like designing a drivetrain based around the fuel tank but that's the way it works with electric, specify your batteries first based on your requirements and space available, then specify the rest of the drivetrain from there. You get caught out otherwise, your 100mph ubermotor and controller combo draws too much power for anything but RC lipo's and your 100 mile range turns into 15 (dropping to 5 after a few hundred charges).

See if you can find forklift motors cheap(ish), you should be able to push them several times beyond their regular output and will probably save quite a lot on the controller by going DC. A QS138 will have plenty of lower down power, monster torque and should be good for 60mph plus. If you want higher top speeds... that's where the costs get crazy.

I’ve seen some succesful forklift motor builds, doesn’t change my recommendation though. On the upside is that they’re more fun to follow than a QS motor build, more surprises and tinkering along the way. :thumb:

If you want more power checkout golden motor. They have 5kw and 10kw motors that should provide plenty of power for you.

Braddudya said:

If you want more power checkout golden motor. They have 5kw and 10kw motors that should provide plenty of power for you.

Click to expand...

Do you have any tests where they perform better than qs 138 70 or 90h?

I doubt that.. as most already know the qs mid drive motors are way underrated so the ”3kW” is more like 10kW, 30kW peak motor.

From what i’ve seen on golden motor is that they are not named the same way.

From what I remember the "word" was that the golden motors at least overheated easily.
Dont know how it was with power though. I think nuxland had one in the go kart earlier and it didnt perform very well.

On the other hand he is overheating a z force 75-7, so his use is probably pretty hard :wink:

j bjork said:

Braddudya said:

If you want more power checkout golden motor. They have 5kw and 10kw motors that should provide plenty of power for you.

Click to expand...

Do you have any tests where they perform better than qs 138 70 or 90h?

Click to expand...

I bought someone else's motorcycle project and it has a 5kw golden motor but it isnt working yet. From what I have read you can get 16-20kw peak from the 5kw motor but I don't know how it responds in terms of heat. I would assume the 10kw can go higher. If that isnt enough they have 20kw rated motors as well!

to the OP I am not an expert but it could be good to look into golden motor options. That should have been my recommendation.

Not trying to get into a cock measurement contest here so don't get me wrong but there are a few of us that have ridden years with the QS mid drives.

Phase resistance of the QS 138 70H is about 5mohm which means heating is really low. Haven’t seen a single person overheating one of them actually and it’s been tested a lot.

You on the other hand have an untested golden motor that you think might be good and recommend. It's not such a solid recommendation, is it?