jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jun 29 2015 10:32pm

Battery has been just fine. We have a 9 kWh pack that sits around doing nothing. Unless we're given longer races, there's just no need for that many kWh, and therefore weight. Its only had two race meets and a couple of track days, but otherwise brand new.

The 6 kWh pack we're currently racing on was built in 4 days with no sleep in time for round 3 of 4 last year. Remarkably, it's working solidly and still giving enough power to perform. We did notice a tapering in top speed compared to last November - 242 km/h at the end of the straight versus 250 km/h last year. I reckon the colder weather has a bit to do with it, plus the pack is a bit "well used". We hope to have another pack in for testing this week, if I get the time to finish it...

Motor and controller are as solid as they've always been. We have to take about 5 Nm from the max torque setting as we're still pulling wheelies out of turn one (at something like 180 km/h) and it makes the grip a bit less forgiving.

Now everybody get building! We need more bikes!

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Hyena » Jun 30 2015 1:18am

Good to see you again Chris and finally see Voltron in person and in action. It'd certainly an impressive beast, well done!
I didn't realise from the sidelines how close Varley was sticking initially so that'll be interesting once they sort out their issues. Looks like you'll still reel them in regardless once you hit the straight.

Yeah it's a shame about the demo class and how you're not really taken too seriously. I'm sure that will change over time though and you guys will go down in history as the pioneers 8) I imagine the you cop the same electric puns and gags from the commentators every race ?
jonescg wrote:Check out Pottz nearly losing it on turn two:
https://www.facebook.com/voltronmotorcycles
Pottz did well, I bet that was sphincter clenching for him!

I'll edit my sideline footage tonight and post it up though it's nothing exciting, just wandering around the pits and a some jet sounding flybys :)

BTW, did you see the little gift I left you ? :mrgreen:
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jun 30 2015 2:45am

Hyena wrote:
BTW, did you see the little gift I left you ? :mrgreen:
The turd in my backpack? I was wondering who that was! ;)

Nah, what did you leave? We packed up a lot of shit in a mad rush. I did find $4 on the ground...

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Hyena » Jun 30 2015 4:19am

jonescg wrote:The turd in my backpack?
There was a turd under your backpack... when you put it on :mrgreen:
I did find $4 on the ground...
Consider that payment for the new sponsorship opportunity :P
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jul 23 2015 11:26pm

I saw the "Hyena" sticker on the front of the bike when we unpacked it. Given the other stickers represent about $50,000 wrth of investment, I reckon your sticker would owe me about $7k. You want my BSB and ACC numbers? ;)

Anyway, progress is slowly being made on the new battery pack. This pack will still be the same old 168s2p format, but it will sit lower in the bike, centralising more of the mass. The enclosure is about 2 kg lighter too. I'm using light gauge hookup wire for the BMS sense wires. While I can balance charge through these, the maximum current will be about 2 amps. So only really possible to balance charge when the pack is well full already. The medium gauge wire is good for 5 amps (8 amps is possible) but the connectors struggle to fit snugly within the enclosure.

EV Power is working on a revised edition of this BMS module but it uses a 3.8 mm pitch connector. I should be able to make it fit later on, but for now I'm using the 2.54 mm pitch mini-Molex connectors from Farnell.

One pack down, three to go!
SubPack4.jpg
SubPack4.jpg (149.95 KiB) Viewed 3172 times

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Hyena » Jul 24 2015 1:33am

jonescg wrote:I saw the "Hyena" sticker on the front of the bike when we unpacked it.
Hehe. I waited until it was just about to go in the crate before slapping it on. I'm not THAT cheeky to have done it before the race where the cameras may have seen it :)
H-voltron.jpg
H-voltron.jpg (56.23 KiB) Viewed 3162 times
Given the other stickers represent about $50,000 wrth of investment, I reckon your sticker would owe me about $7k. You want my BSB and ACC numbers? ;)
Er.. umm, I think I left my cheque book in my other pants... But you know what, any day now I'm expecting a large payment from this Nigerian prince that emailed me a while back, so as soon as that comes through! :mrgreen:
Seriously though if I can get the ebike thing going on a bit bigger scale I'd love to throw you some official sponsorship money. :)

I'm using light gauge hookup wire for the BMS sense wires. While I can balance charge through these, the maximum current will be about 2 amps. So only really possible to balance charge when the pack is well full already. The medium gauge wire is good for 5 amps (8 amps is possible) but the connectors struggle to fit snugly within the enclosure.
Are they the same gauge as used on normal lipo packs ? They're supposedly only rated to 2A (or maybe it's the contacts themself) but amazingly they do take the 8A that the BC168 puts out. So yeah, if your wiring is heavier gauge than that they you should be fine.

Are these the same C rate cells as before ? Any other advantage other than better weight distribution ?
How many cycles on the old one ?
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by SplinterOz » Jul 24 2015 3:03am

jonescg wrote:I saw the "Hyena" sticker on the front of the bike when we unpacked it. Given the other stickers represent about $50,000 wrth of investment, I reckon your sticker would owe me about $7k. You want my BSB and ACC numbers? ;)

Anyway, progress is slowly being made on the new battery pack. This pack will still be the same old 168s2p format, but it will sit lower in the bike, centralising more of the mass. The enclosure is about 2 kg lighter too. I'm using light gauge hookup wire for the BMS sense wires. While I can balance charge through these, the maximum current will be about 2 amps. So only really possible to balance charge when the pack is well full already. The medium gauge wire is good for 5 amps (8 amps is possible) but the connectors struggle to fit snugly within the enclosure.

EV Power is working on a revised edition of this BMS module but it uses a 3.8 mm pitch connector. I should be able to make it fit later on, but for now I'm using the 2.54 mm pitch mini-Molex connectors from Farnell.

One pack down, three to go!
dude do we now have to do that scary test again?
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jul 24 2015 5:15am

We didn't need to check the discharge last time we rocked up with a new pack, because the only thing that changed was the capacity. This time we haven't even changed that. However the precharge-discharge resistor values have changed. Precharge is quicker, discharge is slightly slower (about 5 seconds).

Jay - same cells as before, same arrangement and same voltage. Just a slightly smaller, lighter package with better weight distribution. We should be pretty close to 51:49 front to back. The old pack has been used quite a bit, but still puts out 130 kW when we want it. If the format works well I might try and re-jig the old pack into an identical pack so we can practice on the old one and race on the new one.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Grinhill » Jul 26 2015 8:50pm

Just thinking aloud here, are you likely to use your 9kWh pack again? It's probably not enough for an Isle of Man! Just wondering if it would be less work to use half of that one instead of building a new 4.5kWh pack for me! But then what could the other half be used for?
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by amberwolf » Jul 26 2015 11:38pm

I can think of a few things.... :P

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jul 27 2015 8:35pm

A second pack for you? ;)

If you think it can be made to fit. It stands 570 mm tall, and two of the sub-packs measure 400 mm wide and 155 mm deep, excluding packaging.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by amberwolf » Jul 28 2015 2:07am

Oh, I'm just joshing; I couldn't afford anything like that (and shipping probably costs as much as the pack!).

As for size, they'd fit in CrazyBike2's cargo pods easy enough, or in various containers on the trike's flatbed or maybe even mounted under it between the rear wheels.

Just dreaming, though, after having run out of power once with the trike, a few miles from home. :( (that sucked).

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jul 28 2015 6:57am

Well it's 175 V top of charge... You could go a long way on one charge!

It's done!

Pottz and I worked from about mid morning to 5 pm but we finished the new pack and lowered it into the bike. We have lowered the bottom of the pack by about 45 mm, and the contactor shelf has also been lowered. The enclosure is a full 2 kg lighter than the previous 6 kWh pack too. Doesn't look like any ground clearance issues will be had, but the stability under brakes and quicker tip-in will be a nice touch :) As a bonus, the tank cover sits further back which means it's a bit more comfortable. Plus nothing beats fresh lithium for power :twisted:

Pottz has more photos to add, I'll wait for them to show up. But here she is in finished form:
Voltron Evo new 6 pack.jpg

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 28 2015 7:19am

I see the Hyena logo has gone

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jul 28 2015 7:57am

Rodney64 wrote:I see the Hyena logo has gone
Yeah, his sponsorship cheque bounced, and the postal stamp was from Nigeria...

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Jul 31 2015 8:32am

Some pack assembly photos:
Chris soldering.jpg
Chris soldering.jpg (55.18 KiB) Viewed 1043 times
New 6 pack BMS LHS.jpg
New 6 pack BMS LHS.jpg (103.07 KiB) Viewed 2928 times
Finished pack, ready to drop in.jpg
Finished pack, ready to drop in.jpg (92.26 KiB) Viewed 2928 times
In order to make sure everything fits exactly as it should, I had to ensure the nylon M3 screws fit exactly between the copper busbars, and in some cases I had to file small slots into the busbars before soldering them into place. The four BMS modules take up most of the real estate on the battery top, so it's really quite satisfying to have it all fit in the end.

The weight is much lower, and very similar to where the weight is on a modern sports bike. Until batteries packing twice the current energy density come out, this 6 kWh pack is going to be the smallest practical size for a bike of this power. More battery means more weight, and a higher CoG. Again, this can be corrected for, by relaxing the rake angle of the forks, but that means a new frame is needed. Not quite yet ;)

Looking forward to testing this at Friday Practice, Queensland Raceway!

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 31 2015 8:47am

jonescg wrote:
Rodney64 wrote:I see the Hyena logo has gone
Yeah, his sponsorship cheque bounced, and the postal stamp was from Nigeria...
It's looking good Cbris.'nothing like the trusty milk crate.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Arlo1 » Jul 31 2015 9:05am

That's very inspiring Chris.
Hope to chat about that when you are around in September. I need to start offering my own battery because the battery is so hard to source for LEVs
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 02 2015 7:36am

So Voltron now has three perfectly good batteries. A 9 kWh pack, an older 6 kWh pack, and the new 6 kWh pack, currently in the bike right now.
Photo-0029.jpg
My plan is to re-build the old 6 kWh pack into the new configuration so we have two hot-swappable packs. But ultimately, I just want one 12 kWh pack that weighs as much as the current 6 kWh pack, and don't bother with spares...

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by RIPPERTON » Aug 06 2015 3:42am

Steering angle problems ?
not really.
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 15 2015 7:02am



Hehehe. Since we have hours and hours to burn between races we thought we'd take Voltron down to the drift pad and do some rolling burnouts :D



Good day for racing - Race one Danny put in an eFXC lap record time of 1:20.007, and went on to win with Varley having a long cutout causing third place. Rippertons machine is a bit low on power - only 95 hp, but managed second in this race.

Race two was going great with Pottz on a hot lap destined to be a couple of seconds quicker, but out-braked himself into turn six at QR, runnong off the track and into the gravel. He kept it upright until about 1 km/h before laying it over. He picked it up and carried on though. Jason and the Varley machine took first (with a 1:20.666 lap time) and Riperton second.

Hope to get down into the teens tomorrow :D
Last edited by jonescg on Aug 18 2015 3:04am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Hyena » Aug 16 2015 10:15pm

jonescg wrote:Good day for racing - Race one Danny put in an eFXC lap record time of 1:20.007
...Jason and the Varley machine took first (with a 1:20.666 lap time)
Wow those are some amazingly close times considering the DIY nature of your bikes and the different approaches you're taking.
The split second differences are between James Bond and the devil :lol:

Nice rolling burnout. Bummer about the little detour off the track. No damage ?
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 17 2015 2:53am

Yeah the times were tight, but just like last time we didn't really get much practice.

The off-track excursion was nothing. Another 2 km/h lay over in the gravel. He picked it up and took third.

Race three was a good one with a bit of ding-dong going on. Pottz dipped down into the 1:19s, which is pretty sweet. Race four was much the same, but unfortunately the Varley machine had another cutout which cost Jason 30 seconds and second place.

1:19 is ten seconds slower than the fastest superbike riders in Australia, and about 6 seconds slower than the 600s. With a bit of track time I reckon Pottz could get that down to 4.

We put the bike on the Dyno - 230 horsepower (172 kW) at the rear wheel. No wonder this thing leaves black lines everywhere :)

I have a few photos, but will add them when I get a decent editing program on this netbook.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Bernel » Aug 17 2015 9:34am

Hi Chris,
Very impressive, how far away from ICE laptimes would you be if one of the professional superbike riders had a go? No disrespect to Danny. 230bhp is superbike territory, have any of the ICE jockeys taken an interest?

Bernel

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 17 2015 4:24pm

Yeah, they have taken an interest. But they are often too busy with their own race class that they would be restricted to what they could also ride on the same race meet. The aliens at the front are crazy fast, and could probably get the times well down. But until we shed another 30 kg I can't see it turning a great deal quicker. We definitely need more rear tyre - this 180 profile is costing us dearly on corner exit. The most powerful superbike this weekend was putting out 205 hp :mrgreen:

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